New version of Sutch

[modman26]

WIP: The City of Sutch

 

I've enjoyed the existing version of Sutch, the Sutch Reborn mod. However, there are a number of reasons that I'd like a new version, most of which I won't mention here (anymore). I will say that the existing version is probably in the wrong place and would conflict with Rihad in Hammerfell which can be added in with onra's heightmaps.

 

We are making a new version of the city with a different history and in a new location. Further details can be found on our website (see sig).

[kieranfoy]

And... how?

 

Do you have any clue how many permissions you would need, how much work it would take, and how many toes it would tread on?

[TodaY]

I've enjoyed the existing version of Sutch, the Sutch Reborn mod. However, every time I download the file it comes engulfed in a sticky, viscous, and smelly membrane of real world forum politics.

 

Please help!

 

I don't care who threw rocks at who, or who took their marbles and went home, or who got their feelings hurt. I don't care, and I resent the fact that a lore based city mod is caught in the middle.

 

I just want the city, with some quests and shops inside. It looks like the only way that this will be possible is if someone makes a new version.

 

Anyone?

 

I little tip about one of your first posts in the forums : modding's hard, and modders are not your slaves or anything like it. No-one's gonna help you unless you show some respect. If a mod creates a whole city, it probably took over 6 months to create. Stop acting like your a spoiled 3-year old.

[modman26]

I said I enjoyed the existing version. I meant that, so no disrespect to the people who have worked on that version was intended in regards to the amount of time or dedication the creation of that mod took.

 

That being said, I still want a new version. And no, that isn't an "order" to the development community. This is where you put requests when you cannot find the mod you want, and that's what I did. That last part where I said "Anyone?" was supposed to be in the sense of "is anyone interested in making a new version of Sutch" not "does anyone want to flame me for requesting a mod."

 

I didn't get into specifics, name names or anything about anything that may have happened in the past. I did state that I didn't care about any such events, twice.

 

I did some research, and the Reborn version isn't placed correctly; the intended location can be seen in the map loading screen about 30 seconds into the video found here. And at about 6m 11s into the video found here. The existing mod is close, but not quite right.

 

So, please stop attacking me for requesting a new version of a lore-based city. THIS IS WHY I WANT A NEW VERSION!!! ONE WITH NONE OF THESE KINDS OF ATTACKS ATTACHED. GET IT? I'm going to ignore further attacks and discussion of the old version. I am aware of it, and it is not what I want. I am requesting a new version and that's what I'm willing to discuss.

 

As for permissions; unless the guy who created the first version of the mod had to get permissions from BethSoft, I don't see an issue as long as the new version doesn't include someone else's private resources. Since the concept was from BethSoft, as long as the new version didn't try to re-create the old one, but just followed the concept laid out by BethSoft it should be fine.

 

I'd like a version that had Sutch in the right place so that it is lore-friendly and wouldn't be bumping up against the Hammerfell city of Rihad. If anyone is inclined to make it, great. If not, please refrain from trolling.

 

Thanks!

[TodaY]

I might have misunderstood you post, sorry for that. When I read the part about you not caring about anyone's feelings, i thought you were the one trolling.

[modman26]

I might have misunderstood you post, sorry for that. When I read the part about you not caring about anyone's feelings, i thought you were the one trolling.

 

No problem, misunderstandings happen. For instance, what I don't care about is not "anyone's feelings"; I don't care about any kind of negative emotional and/or political history attached to, well, any mod. Those are negatives that make a mod less enjoyable, IMHO. So much so that I'd be inclined to request new versions of lore-based mods that are disentangled from such minutia. By using past tense in my OP, I'd hoped to be clear that it was the history surrounding the Reborn version that I didn't care about, but re-reading it, I can definitely see why it could be taken the way you did.

 

Thanks!

[TodaY]

Getting that out of the way, a mod this size would take a huge amount of effort. Do you want a complete questline? Dialogue? Do you have links to concept art? Im currently busy on my own mod, but I think I might be able to do some texturing, exteriors, interiors and everything else expect for modelling (in that order)(lol). I can't do it all by myself though.

[AcheronOrton]

Getting that out of the way, a mod this size would take a huge amount of effort. Do you want a complete questline? Dialogue? Do you have links to concept art? Im currently busy on my own mod, but I think I might be able to do some texturing, exteriors, interiors and everything else expect for modelling (in that order)(lol). I can't do it all by myself though.

I know exactly how he feels, i got a new mod recently(from another site) im excited to play it.. so i load up the esp and load my charactor.. and what do i get? A big quest journal thing shows up about some other guys drama, i dont know this guy, i dont know his drama, i download the mod to enjoy it not be braught down by some guy forcing his issues down my throat.

 

That being said, im also a member of TodaY's Team on her other mod so once thats finished or she'd like my assistance with this one id be happy to give it, ill just need to know exactly what im working on, i havent tried this "Sutch" but the way you described it i think it best i avoid it, but none the less ill need to know what kind of story you'd like written.

 

And to clarify.. it has nothing to do with "Fort Sutch" right?

[modman26]

Well, I hadn't intended to write it myself... but I'll give it a shot.

 

OK, so Sutch was a city included in the E3 demo that was later removed and replaced with Ft. Sutch, or so it seems.

 

So, the lore on Sutch is sparse; this page says that Sutch is in ruins and is North of Kvatch. The E3 videos I linked above show that it ended up in the middle of Kvatch and Anvil as far as latitude, but North of both. Still, it is not quite on the coast.

 

Pre-Oblivion release, apparently some BethSoft devs enjoyed leaking little pieces of lore to the TES fan base, two of these posts mention Sutch. One talks about a guy named Xerxes Two-Balls Head Red, who seems to be affiliated with the Blood Dome Temple in Lesser West Sutch, and the other talks about how 'the Dragon of Sutch' had been informed about a fugitive. In this context, Dragon seems to be the title of the Imperial Legion soldiers.

 

From that, some imagery of Sutch starts to form; if there is a West Sutch, then there is probably an East Sutch district, and if there is a Lesser West Sutch, then there is probably a Greater West Sutch. Looking again at this E3 video at about 6m 11s in, you can kind of see the layout of the City, it seems that there is an important structure of some sort on the North-East side, perhaps a palace or a temple. If that is the case, then east Sutch would be the upper class district and the western part of Sutch is likely the lower class (Lesser, Southern?) and merchant (Greater, Northern?) districts. The map scrolls by pretty quick and it is really hard to make out, but it seems like Sutch is a little smaller than Kvatch or Anvil, however it also seems like there could be an extension to the town to the North-West. At the very least there is a road heading toward the coast from the Western gate. Pure speculation, but it could connect to a detached port.

 

That brings us to Thief of Virtue, the lore book that describes a Baron's castle. It also calls Sutch a Hammerfell City. So some more speculation; since we know cities don't generally move, the only way that makes sense is if the border moved over the city at some point. The story takes place some 450 years after the thieves guild was supposedly wiped out. I still haven't found that event in the lore timeline so I am no certain when the story takes place. However, Tamriel's history is riddled with conflict, and I've found a few times when the border could have moved, for instance; in 1E 1029: Empress Herta of Cyrodiil strengthens the Colovian West and expands the border of the Cyrodiil Empire to High Rock. There are a few other times as well, like during the early reign of Talos when the border could have moved.

 

Regardless, the city could be ancient. The area of Hammerfell was initially settled by the Dwemer, then by Redguard. If the city predates the Empire, then it is likely Redguard architecture, however since it would also mark the far boundary of their territory, it would likely have been built late in their timeline so the architecture would have been mixed initially with newer buildings using more Imperial architecture. Further, the Redguard may have built on top of Dwemer ruins during their colonization.

 

So back to the castle described in Thief of Virtue; it had high walls with crenelations; the stereo-typical battlement structure on the walls of most castles. The Baron's quarters has an adjoining boudoir for his wife. Apparently the Baron's quarters have no windows and room for a treasure with seven traps and the door to the room had a hefty lock at one point. Not much there.

 

So as far as lore goes, the city should be at least partially in ruins. However, some of the city may have been partially rebuilt (East Sutch, the old upper-class district?). This leaves room for sewers full of undead, ruins overrun with goblins and other beastmen, lower class shanty-towns (Lesser West Sutch), and increased prejudice and friction between classes. A city like that would be a haven for crime and criminals, if the ruins aren't regularly patrolled. The thieve's and necromancer's guilds would do well there, while the mage's and fighter's guilds may not even have a presence.

 

Quest Ideas: Restoring the fighter's or mage's guilds to the city could be quests, as could patrolling the ruins, clearing out an infestation of critters, undead, smugglers, bandits, thieves, and/or necromancers. Bodyguard duty for the elites could be profitable, as could assassination contracts against the same; the elites in a corrupt city are typically just the most corrupt and cut-throat. The Cyrodiil Cities guide linked above also states that Kynareth may have been the patron of the town. The re-taking of a temple from a current denizen, perhaps Blood Dome Temple from Xerxes Two-Balls, and re-dedicating it to Kynareth would also make a decent quest. As for trying to rebuild the whole city, I don't see it as necessary. If the city were built on the bones of a Dwemer city, then there could still be mysteries beneath the city as well, but they would have to be sealed off in some manner that only a PC could open or they would likely be plundered and full of goblins. A mix of goblin infestation and sealed areas would be pretty fun.

 

I'll work on more details later. I hope this provides a good starting point.

[modman26]

OK, so one quick update; here is a map that shows the location and layout of Sutch. You don't have to hunt through video to see it. The thing to the north east... could be anything. Looks like a road winds towards it on the south of the city, south of the connecting structure (aqueduct?). And it looks like the south west portion of the town is walled, perhaps that is Lesser West Such.