Oblivion Vs Morrowind

[odark]

One thing that I see in this post that people have overlook is that you HAVE to MODIFY Oblivion. In Morrowind it was entirely feasable to play the Vanilla game for 300+ hours. I beat everything under the stars in oblivion in under 60! Now I just have a character I keep taking to jail so I can level and continue scouring for those interesting leveled items that STILL ONLY GOTO LEVEL 20!

 

This game feels more like a patch to the problems seen by developers in Morrowind than an entirely new game! For example, they hated it how you could just run through a town and rob it blind and sell it to a shop owner in that same town in Morrowind. So they make fences, they hated it how if you had the money you could enchant things at the Mages Guild without being a memeber. They made it a huge waste of time to Enchant by having to run all over the map. I felt like I was playing Zelda freaking 64 in some instances. Run here run there, prove to me this prove to me that. There is no functioning ingame economy what so ever. Sure it's pretty, but I could get a crow to look at something shiny and it wouldn't know it's a crome desert eagle aimed at it. I agree with a lot said here, and the more I think about it the more P-oed I get.

 

As said before, where are the Mark, Recall, and Fly spells? On another note, where is poison damage? Where is lycanthropy (anyone ever read the lore behind werewolfs?) Where is all this stuff we came to know as things to do? They turned them all into quests, and sure highly involved quests. But still fast travel enabled one way quests!

 

The trade system in this game is a HATECRIME. It was excellent in Morrowind and Daggerfall, because if you were smart you could get every pennies' worth out of a sale. And so what if the shop owner's only had so much cash, this just meant you had to be smart. The option was there! Here it seems everything is illegal to sell but isn't. I carry skooma constantly, never get busted for it... I also steal constantly and get away with it. Because I'm the champion of cyrodill, and because I have 130 personality...

 

The rules for all the games prior were more complex, did you know there used to be a CLIMBING SKILL! Go figure!!!

 

I will say I like the size of the underground and indoor arenas in Oblivion. HUGE complexes scaling miles in length underground... That's pretty manly, but only for about 20 hours of gameplay. Then it's just a DRAG, because all of the dungeons are linear. They all go in one direction... Stupid...

 

Leveled Gestapo, I can't take this leveled nazi crap. I'm level 68 at the moment (no I'm not cheating I'm just a gama-a-holic who likes spending time in prison to get extra levels...) And everything has daedric armor, this seriously is the STUPIDEST THING I'VE EVER SEEN. I've seen random town npc's armed with Daedric weapons COMPLAINING about how horrible the oblivion gates were, and how manly I am. Are you kidding me... Here I am talking to a 80 YEAR OLD WOMAN with the SAME longsword that I have. The only difference is that my longsword is enchanted with fire, and her's is with something else. 80 years OLD! COME ON!

 

Not to mention the old lady was HOMELESS! I looked in the CS and discovered she has 100 in blade... Are you kidding me? HOW ARE YOU HOMELESS, go stab someone! GO EXPLORE! You've got the stats! Hey there in comparison I guess that makes me homeless to! YAY FOR BEING HOMELESS!

 

Oblivion gates are laughable as well, wanna know why? Because I never fought inside one. That's right, I ran through! I'd get inside the tower, engage adrenaline rush and run to the top, rip out the sigil and just wait for the cloud of daedra to come up and see me just as their lives flash before their eyes. Why fight? Oh what some skill points? Big deal, go hack at animals for a while... This was a problem for me, because you could literally beat the game if you stay objective based the entire time. Example? How about making a redguard warrior to beat the main quest in under 7 hours and under level 5? That's rediculous... You know what is worse? The fact that it was easier to beat at under level 5 that it was at level 5, and again at level 10 , 15, and 20... Because it's leveled!

 

So let me get this straight, you become a hard ass in the game.... And you are punished for it? Good going Bethesda! For the record if you look back to when Morrowind came out, people on forums were saying much the same about Morrowind! Graphically, gameplay wise... Morrowind wasn't Daggerfall's gameplay senior in many respects, but through tried and true playing of the game became a good game and it didn't disappoint. Oblivion on the otherhand, 80 hours into it and I've already removed the DVD from my drive... You know what's in there now... Morrowind...

 

In oblivion you have a leveled list problem... It's modded to be fixed and more realistic... In morrowind there was a leveled list problem, not as much, but it was modded to be fixed and more realistic... Do you see a trend here? A UNADDRESSED or ignored problem maybe? Someone isn't doing their job if the 4th in a series of a game are being modded to fix the same !@%!@# problem over and over.

 

I was really excited for this game to come out, and I have to say it looks like Bethesda is finally starting to sell out. Daggerfall and Morrowind are the last bastions of their creativity, I can't say I blame them. The money's good...

 

I also entirely agree with jzbaker, nothing against bethesda, this is beautiful work. But Mr. Howard, step back and look at what you've made here... Look at what you've made prior, and the only difference that makes Oblivion better is graphics. Take a hint, people are still playing their nintendos for a reason... The same reason I just made a Dark Elf named Lord Indoril Nerevar on morrowind. The same reason I still haven't been from one side of daggerfall to the other. The same reason I still stab fargoth, the same reason I horde skooma and moon sugar. The same reason why I visit the mud crab and the scamp... The same reason I kill someone only to take their house and use it as storage.... Oblivion has things Morrowind needed, but I wonder how far off we are until we see mod's for morrowind that have oblivion gameplay in them? Well the combat has already been fixed to be like morrowind, Combat enhanced, and blocking enhanced... How long? It's probably already happening....

 

Thanks for reading my little rant, and thank you jzbaker for putting this on a front burner for some people.

 

PS: I think some people are missing the point of this post. It doesn't say Modded Morrowind VS Oblivion, and if you haven't played Oblivion unmodded then I don't need to say anything else.

[Ancalagon]

I more or less agree with what's being said here. However, I wouldn't be so quick to cast stones at Bethseda and write Oblivion off as crap. I mean, I agree that MW in many ways is superior in gameplay than Oblivion, largely in part due to the depth of dialogue (it was in-game text) and the explorability of the map. I despise having the towns in Ob, they don't have that intrigueing feel to them that MW towns had.

 

Still, Oblivion is still largely Vanilla, only a handfull of quality mods have come out, and the big projects won't be out for a long while. That and the fact that there aren't any expansions out. So I would just wait and see. I feel a little spoiled towards MW, because when I got it, all the expansions were out and the modding community was at it's Golden Age of production, so I had no complaints.

 

It still amazes me what many modders put in these games that the Beth devs missed, like having *lighted* windows at *night*. Who the HELL misses that? Obviously the same flunky who missed it in MW. I mean, THIEF and THIEF 2 have lighted windows in-game, and they're OLDER. COME on, get your crap together. Some of these things that Beth neglected to put in or left out astound me. No taunt, the barter system runs like "Haggle for Dummies", I can hock skooma to anyone but can't sell stolen items to regular merchants unless I belong to the TG. Good thing a mod out there fixes that by adding some crooked merchants to sell hot stuff to. The dialogue is attrocious because it's all voiced. That limits the amount of depth you can provide, hence the option of rumors, and that's it. Same old books, I think beth only put in 10 books total in Oblivion, figuring we'd be too busy questing or killing to want to stop and read some lore. Laughable lack of information regarding Nerevar. Sithspit, I'm getting angry.

 

But I still think it's too early to get worked up over how bad Oblivion is. When the good mods and expansion packs come out, then we'll see.

[Povuholo]

Same old books, I think beth only put in 10 books total in Oblivion, figuring we'd be too busy questing or killing to want to stop and read some lore. Laughable lack of information regarding Nerevar. Sithspit, I'm getting angry.

 

That's so true... When you are in the province with the arcane university/imperial city you would expect to find a lot of information about Tamriel, but no... And that's a shame, for modders can't just go type some books, for this is not the "lore" as bethesda wanted. Unless we copy books from daggerfall and arena... I believe that that has already been done ;)

[Vicrry]

I tried vanilla Oblivion for a while, it got me so fed up. I go kill a rat at level 1, it almost kills me. Then I do it again at level 10, and it almost kills me. What the? Daedric rat teeth? I since installed mods to fix this problem.

 

Morrowind also had great appeal because there were so many factions vvying for power. The Imperials with great control, the Temple with it's influence on the Dunmer, the Great Houses almost constantly at war, the Ashlanders just trying to survive, and I probably leaving out several more great examples. All this was backed up with great stories and dialogue, even if it didn't have voice acting. I would take 20 or 30 minutes just sitting in a library in the Temple or Mage's Guild reading stories at a time, I STILL haven't read everything there is in Morrowind. I go looking for this backstory and detail in the factions, and there's none. Half the books are copied straight from Morrowind even.

 

Even though Oblivion is supposed to be separate storylinewise from Morrowind, you'd think the death of 2 (Maybe 3) self-made gods or the destruction of a war machine that would have steamrolled the Empire would be huge news. Nope. All I've heard of the Nerevarine is that he's gone to some far away land, and is missing.

 

Trading in Morrowind is also messed up - I'd agree that Morrowind's traders were a little too stupid, but a Master of Mercantile with a 80+ personality can't get full price or buy at less than full price? eh? Also, I REALLY hate the psychic merchants. I stole this piece of bread across the region, and you magically know it's stolen? Buying and selling for profit between merchants was a great way of making cash at low levels, now it's impossible at even high levels. Oh, and forget bulk deals. Alchemists would sometimes have largish stocks of ingredients to buy and mix, and then sell back at considerable gain. Now the super sweet alchemy shops in the capital of the great empire may have a couple servings of carrots. Ugh.

 

All said and done, Oblivion looks pretty and the combat is more interesting, but lacks story content of its predecessor, as well having a marketplace that doesn't make a lick of sense. And it is missing polearms.

[Malchik]

If you forget Oblivion was a sequel to MW it isn't soo bad. Certainly you can't visit every place in the game (unless you use a cheat) with any speed and some ARE individual. It is the MW lovers who will find the disappointments. And as an MW lover I certainly do find them and have posted at length on this elsewhere. But try to enjoy what there is and hope mods (free ones, I'm not going to yield to merchandising) will add much more. The potential is there.

 

However I have no probs with alchemy ingredient sellers Viccry. And with so much easily accessible simply by walking around I don't see why you have. I have too much money not too little and alchemy is where it comes from. As master you produce a potion from one ingredient and if I buy for 2 coin and sell for 42 it soon mounts up. As with MW making money from alchemy remains too easy in my view!

 

I do agree with the absence of 'history'. There was an Ayleid civilisation once. But with three exceptions nothing of ancient history impacts on the modern world. I am about to write an Ayleid guide to visiting the ruins as part of my Varla stones pinned thread. (It's for newbies of course). Maybe someone would help me put it in game when it's done?

[Vicrry]

My complaint about lack of Morrowind news in Oblivion is not really meant as a fault, just a simple observation. It's not there as it would confuse anyone that hadn't played Morrowind, but still.. A vague rumor or two about it would have been nice. As it is I've only heard the Nerevarine rumor once.

 

When I say bulk, I don't mean finding a couple or buying a few - I mean thousands. I did this a couple times when I was seriously bored of trying to level alchemy - it goes much faster with ingredients for literally 2000 potions in your inventory. Selling 100 or 200 potions becomes a problem with a moderate alchemy skill, there's just not enough merchant gold in the world to do it. Even with all the barkeeps, pawnshops, and Creeper.

 

As for making a story up, I'd like to read it - but my experience with the CS only goes as far as I can chuck a truck.

[Ancalagon]

I'd actually love to see a mod that made an attempt at putting more history books, lore, and the like in the game. Like have a corresponding Imperial Museum Building with lore, artifacts, and the like (Like in mournhold) and have an extensive quest to collect information and items from ruins strewn across the land. Maybe even have a section devoted to different planes of Oblivion and create a mod off of that. I too have about as much skill in the CS as Ron Jeremy has in Serious Dramatic Performances, but I would love to be a sounding board and an idea creator, since I am full of it, er...them, I mean.

[thanateros]

Oblivion has things Morrowind needed, but I wonder how far off we are until we see mod's for morrowind that have oblivion gameplay in them?

 

Ever done a search in Google with "Empirical Morrowind"? When you do, you'll find just about every improvement made in Oblivion over Morrowind already as a mod, INCLUDING rideable mounts, light based sneaking, NPC schedules, better combat, and more graphics and gameplay changes/additions than you can wrap your mind around. I want them all. Sorry for pseudo-thread jacking, but the reality of Morrowind is that everything you love about Oblivion exists in Morrowind in mod form one way or another. And now there is a mod group making a great deal of progress on an LOD mod for Morrowind. Ever wanted to see Red Mountain from the top of a Vivec canton, well, this talented group is well on their way to making that dream come true.

 

View of Red Mountain from Vivec Canton

 

It's going to be a long time before the modding community makes Oblivion a better game than Morrowind, however, I think that eventually it will be a better game than Morrowind.

[Ancalagon]

I'm inclined to agree with that, I mean when Tamriel Rebuilt comes out (hopefully BEFORE TES V) or when the big mod projects are finished Oblivion WILL be better than Morrowind, but for now we sort of have to scrape and scrounge. I have at the very least five mods running simultaneously on Oblivion, and there's still stuff I desire.

 

As someone once said, we'll have to "wait and see..."

[Ryuker]

I think a big part of the problem is that the world is stereotypical fantasy!

 

BORING! :glare:

 

Morrowind made a pretty unique fantasy world while oblivion had to stay(becuase it's in cyrodil) in the same fantasy world we all know and played in a thousand times over.

 

Also the factions suck compared to the ones in morrowind, and the dungeons are too damn dark and dull compared to morrowind IMO.....I don't think I ever used a torch in morrowind, but it's damn near essential in oblivion.