Load Order

[Spineraker]

I've tried everything I can find, but nothing matches my setup correctly enough to insure stability. I upgraded to FOOK2 1.1 Beta 2, and find myself now struggling to get a working game back. I will fully admit here before continuing, though, that I am trying to use my previous save file. I waited a total of 8-days (beyond respawn time of 7.5) in the woman's restroom within Megaton. Now, when I exit Megaton, I'm fine for all of 3 to 5 seconds when a group of ants crawl up over the hill and starts attacking the traders sitting outside. I start seeing pistol fire and laser shots and suddenly I lock up--quickly CTD'ing.

 

Before I give up completely and simply start a new game (I really didn't want to do that since I'm already so far in the game, and had to restart due to previous mod changes as well), I'm hoping that someone will know what mod load order I need to use to get this stuff to mesh right. I have only created a few merged patches for convenience, so if anyone has some ideas on what I should try and merge together to improve this--I'd be appreciative. I tried to use FO3Edit to make a master merge of all the conflicts at once--but that didn't seem to work at all; I crashed almost instantly.

 

Here's my load order. I hope I've described this correctly >_<...

 

============================================================

 

[X] Fallout3.esm

[X] Anchorage.esm

[X] BrokenSteel.esm

[X] PointLookout.esm

[X] ThePitt.esm

[X] Zeta.esm

[X] CRAFT.esm

[X] Project Beauty.esm

[X] CALIBR.ESM

[X] DCInteriors_ComboEdition.esm

[X] Enhanced Weather - Rain and Snow.esm

[X] Abbreviated Effects.esm

[X] FOOK2 - Main.ESM

[X] FOOK2 - [DIK] DLC Improvement Kit.ESM

[X] Mart's Mutant Mod.esm

[X] FO3 Wanderers Edition - Main File.esm

[X] Enhanced Weather - Rain and Snow in Fallout.esp

[X] Enhanced Weather - Weather Sounds in Interiors.esp

[X] Enhanced Weather - Sneak Bonus during Storms.esp

[X] CRAFT - Workbench and Crafting Expansion combined.esp

[X] DarNifiedUIF3.esp

[X] FOOK2 - Main.esp

[X] FOOK2 Main [Hotfix].esp

[X] FOOK2 - [DIK] DLC Improvement Kit.esp

[X] FOOK2 DIK [Hotfix].esp

[X] FOOK - DIK - Project Beauty.esp

[X] FOOK2 - Project Beauty.esp

[X] FOOK2 - Mothership Zeta.esp

[X] Project Beauty- Broken Steel.esp

[X] Project Beauty- Point Lookout.esp

[X] FO3 Wanderers Edition - Main File.esp

[X] FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC Anchorage.esp

[X] FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC The Pitt.esp

[X] FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC Broken Steel.esp

[X] FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC Point Lookout.esp

[X] FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC Mothership Zeta.esp

[X] FO3 Wanderers Edition - Optional Worn Weapons.esp

[X] FO3 Wanderers Edition - Project Beauty.esp

[X] FO3 Wanderers Edition - More Gore.esp

[X] FO3 Wanderers Edition - More Gore Zeta.esp

[X] FO3 Wanderers Edition - More Gore The Pitt.esp

[X] FO3 Wanderers Edition - More Gore PointLookout.esp

[X] CRAFT - WCE Warmonger Addon.esp

[X] TinCanCRAFTing.esp

[X] CRAFT - EnergyAmmo.esp

[X] CALIBR Ammo Schematics - CRAFT.esp

[ ] dD-More Gore.esp

[ ] dD-More Gore-The Pitt.esp

[ ] dD-More Gore-BrokenSteel.esp

[ ] dD-More Gore-PointLookout.esp

[ ] dD-More Gore-Zeta.esp

[ ] QuickerMessages.esp

[ ] QuickerMessagesOA.esp

[ ] QuickerMessagesPITT.esp

[ ] QuickerMessagesBS.esp

[ ] QuickerMessagesPL.esp

[X] Quicker Messages Combo.esp <=== Merged for the 5 mods above.

[ ] Rude Awakening.esp

[X] GNRKarmaFix.esp

[X] Mannequin.esp

[X] UWWUT.esp

[X] UWWUT - The Pitt Addon.esp

[X] UWWUT - Broken Steel Addon.esp

[X] AWS PP.esp

[X] AWS PP _ Anchorage _ Lookout _ Zeta.esp

[X] AWS PP COMBO.esp

[X] UPP - Quest Perks.esp

[X] UPP - Pack 1.esp

[X] UPP - Pack 2.esp

[X] UPP - Experience Perks.esp

[X] UPP - Beverage Perks.esp

[X] CRAFT - Activation Perk.esp

[X] dD-Less Blood Time, Larger Blood.esp

[X] Feng Shui.esp

[X] Feng Shui - Keymap Template.esp

[X] Xepha's Darker Nights.esp

[ ] megalight.esp <== Told that this is already in FOOK2 1.1 Beta 2

[X] BCA.esp

[X] DCInteriors_DLC_Collectables.esp

[X] MTC Wasteland Travellers.esp

[X] MTC Wasteland Travellers (Optional)- Crowded Cities.esp

[X] WastelandMastery.esp

[X] Attentater's Wasteland Economy.esp

[X] PowerArmorTraining.esp

[X] PowerArmorTraining_MedicArmor.esp

[X] PowerArmorTraining_Linden.esp

[X] Owned!.esp

[X] DoubleDeathClawGauntlets.esp

[X] Contract Killer Two Ears.esp

[X] ACE2-0.esp

[X] 3EFdrg.esp

[X] Cannibal Harvest_HF.esp

[X] Realistic Death Physics.esp

[X] ChildKiller.esp

[X] Megaton Walkway.esp

[X] dD-Reduced Dismember Force.esp

[ ] CRAFT Improvised Weaponry.esp

[ ] UPP - Original Perks.esp

[ ] Realistic Interior Lighting.esp

[ ] Realistic Interior Lighting - OA.esp

[ ] Realistic Interior Lighting - BS.esp

[X] REALIGHTINTERIOR COMBO.esp <== Merged of above 3

[X] FNNCQ.esm <=== According to author, it's best to load this after FOOK2 entirely. Otherwise, some times malfunction or conflict.

[X] FNNCQ_DavidsLab.esm

[X] Mart's Mutant Mod.esp

[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Anchorage.esp

[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC The Pitt.esp

[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Broken Steel.esp

[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Point Lookout.esp

[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Zeta.esp

[ ] Mart's Mutant Mod - Hunting & Looting.esp <==Integrated into FOOK2 1.1 Beta's optional addon system (I think?)

[ ] Mart's Mutant Mod - Feral Ghoul Rampage.esp <==Integrated into FOOK2 1.1 Beta's optional addon system (I think?)

[ ] Mart's Mutant Mod - Increased Increased Spawns.esp <==Integrated into FOOK2 1.1 Beta's optional addon system (I think?)

[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - Project Beauty.esp

[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - FWE Master Release.esp

[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - Project Beauty + FWE.esp

[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - FOOK2.esp

[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - FOOK2 - DIK.esp

[X] EVE.esp <=== Told that EVE is part of FOOK2 1.1 Beta 2 now, but doesn't seem to be working correctly without the mod. Not sure if I should leave it on or dump it.

[X] EVE Operation Anchorage.esp

[X] EVE - FWE Master Release.esp

[X] EVE Anchorage - FWE DLC Anchorage.esp

[X] Clear Cell Buffers every Cell.esp

[ ] Rude Awakening - MMM.esp

[ ] Mart's Mutant Mod - No Corpse Flies.esp

[ ] SkillCheck.esp

[ ] MZAllAccessPass.esp

[ ] lessviewdistance.esp

[ ] Outcast DX.esp

[ ] FOOK2 - [EVE] Energy Visuals Enhanced.esp <== Assumed to be part of FOOK2 1.1 Beta 2 now. Not listed as compatible with that version.

[ ] Choose your own hairstyle (load this last on FOMM).esp

[fap6000]

That's the biggest mess I've ever seen. The biggest mess you have ever seen too.

 

[X] Clear Cell Buffers every Cell.esp

 

It's risky when you purge the cell buffer an you actually know what you are doing. It's built into the game engine anyway, hence the lack of need for a mod like this to make things more complex or take risks. PreemptivlyPurgeUnused and SelectivePurgeOnFastTravel much more controled, an already built into the engine, it's a simple turn a 0 into a 1, or was it 1 into a 0, find it in the tweekguide.

 

[X] EVE.esp

[X] EVE Operation Anchorage.esp

[X] EVE - FWE Master Release.esp

[X] EVE Anchorage - FWE DLC Anchorage.esp

 

 

Yes it is somewhat built into FOOK2, but the FOOKSTERS have enough on their plate just getting the part that is FOOKs core to work. In fact FOOK2 conflicts with itself. Certianly the Eve part. So yah let's just dump another mod on top of that to fix it the easy way. Great idea, I'll remind myself to try that. FOOK2 takes 16 hours to fix into a already known good well working 100% clean load order. That's installing FOOK2 last an spending 2 days just fixing all the conflicts with FO3edit.

 

[X] Mart's Mutant Mod.esp

[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Anchorage.esp

[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC The Pitt.esp

[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Broken Steel.esp

[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Point Lookout.esp

[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Zeta.esp

[ ] Mart's Mutant Mod - Hunting & Looting.esp <==Integrated into FOOK2 1.1 Beta's optional addon system (I think?)

[ ] Mart's Mutant Mod - Feral Ghoul Rampage.esp <==Integrated into FOOK2 1.1 Beta's optional addon system (I think?)

[ ] Mart's Mutant Mod - Increased Increased Spawns.esp <==Integrated into FOOK2 1.1 Beta's optional addon system (I think?)

[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - Project Beauty.esp

[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - FWE Master Release.esp

[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - Project Beauty + FWE.esp

[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - FOOK2.esp

[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - FOOK2 - DIK.esp

 

 

 

What a mess, I can't even say anything about this. Yah it's that bad...

 

 

[X] Owned!.esp

 

Owned is so old that it was built into FOOK 1.6, you know the FOOK before FOOK2. Why are you even using it. Open the geck an build you a place to live. The point being the less of this crap you have in a load order then the less complex it becomes, making a well working result that much more easy to achive...

 

 

 

 

It's pretty pointless for me to continue. Anything in FOOK2 is overwriten by FWE, which is overwriten again by everything else. It would take you about 2 weeks working 8 hours a day to fix these mods to work together. Your main problem is that you didn't have a plan when you started. A plan like hey I'm going to test vanilla fallout right after I install it for a certian amount of time. I'll then tweek it, an test it again, then install the DLC's an test again, maybe even editing the tweeks some more. Then when I know it's good I'll move on to installing mods either a few small ones at a time or one big one at a time, which I will seperate with hours of super fun testing with random created charicters.

 

Pretty much you are also using mods above your experience level with modding fallout 3. I learned a whole lot making 20 or more fallout installs/builds. It could be the right time for you to start over. Only this time spend some time reading the pinned topics an other vast amounts of information one would need to know in order to create a well working 99% clean crash free load order. If I were going to use the mods that you are using there's no way I would ever try to install it all at once, much less fix it all at once. Something as complex as what you have requires that many hours be spent inside FO3edit fixing all the conflicts, FO3edit merge patch it or bashgary, Fix all the stuff in the merge patch or bash gary, Edits to overall balance of the gameplay, Master update with FO3edit, an such would also require the 1.7 patch with the correct Tweeks for you computer. All of that is just to get to the near final testing phase which at that time you would still have to go back an re-fix things an tackle issues as they come up.

[Spineraker]

I wasn't aware of that about the clear cell buffer; thank you. I'll be removing it asap.

 

I'm not understanding **at all** why you said what you did about the MMM mods. How could I have possibly screwed THAT one up; I followed the directions for that one very specifically--loading it last and insuring everything was in the right order. Just saying that it is beyond description is a rather dick thing to say, imo. If you care to elaborate on that so as to be a bit more helpful, I'd appreciate it.

 

As for Owned!, I do recall seeing it in Fook 1.6--which I used way back when. Problem is, it has since been removed or hasn't been updated within FOOK2. In the process of writing this, I seem to recall the version put into FOOK 1.6 was the original simple version--where it would allow you to own the property of someone you kill. The author of Owned! has a newer version far more advanced than that now. It now puts books on counters that allows you to purchase/manage that specific property. (an earlier version actually used computer screens attached to walls--not books. I hated that as I constantly got confused with what computers were actually computers, and not Owned! stuff.) The books are fairly nondescript, and blend in (for the most part) with the environments. Additionally, there's a new Tax system that they've added where you can actually tax the locations you've purchased--simulating rent or whatever you want. The later feature can be turned off as well, which is nice (it sometimes doesn't make sense to be taxing vacant shacks... o_O) Anyway, that is why I have Owned! still on my list; it's the latest version from Nexus. I don't want to build myself "a place to live" as I don't need one, specifically. I like owning everything in the game--even property.

 

As for FOOK2 replaced by FWE, replaced by everything else, I'm not sure what you mean. Almost everything after FWE are minor tweak mods, save for MMM which is supposed to be loaded last anyway. Is there something I'm not getting here? I've placed FOOK2 above FWE because FOOK2 seems to be heavier in the core modifications than FWE; the usual way for how I gauge where a mod should go--how critical it is.

 

Any other suggestions or comments? I'd like to see if I could get this working; I know it is possible, but apparently Merge Patching isn't the only thing I need to do.

[fap6000]

Look I'm just telling you the facts. I'm sure I stepped on your toes, from you calling me a dick indirectly. What I said was said because anything I could come up with to tell you would be just as counter productive as calling me funny names, because it would take hours to write, an probably just as long for you to read. Besides wasting my time.

 

I don' t know for sure if that "clear cell buffer" was a problem, I do know there was another mod similar to it. The basic idea was to keep data in the cell buffer for a certian number of actions by the player, like purge every other fast travel or purge after going thru 6 doors. Anybody that made a mod like that is pretty limited to the things they could change, so I figured they would be similar thus having similar problems. The problem with the purge cell buffer mod, was it conflicted with other mods in such a way that caused a crash. However the only safe ways I know of that purge the cell buffer are the two settings in the Fallout.ini note pad config files from the tweekguide debrief. SelectivePurgeUnusedOnFastTravel an PreemptivelyUnloadUnused. This cuts out about 90% of the manual PCB you would have to do. A manual PCB is done with the console commands, but you either enter a door an PCB, turn around an go back out to force a reload. Or use Groovatron to place a teliport marker where ever you are, teliport into the black room, PCB, then teliport back to the spot you were at. Another way to force a reload only loaded with out that possibly corupt or performance robbing data locked in the cell buffer.

 

MMM- I could write a whole page on this part, which is why I declined, an futher decline to explaining that fully here. You have 5 FOIP Generic patches. Granted, that the MMM.esp you have disabled/replaced are all global varibles, meaning it's just a number. The generic FOIP patches below,

 

[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - Project Beauty.esp

[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - FWE Master Release.esp

[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - Project Beauty + FWE.esp

[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - FOOK2.esp

[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - FOOK2 - DIK.esp

 

I know there is more than just Global varibles in these. Then even in the correct order if one were to look at the actual data. It would be a mess. It's actually less work to fix mods with FO3edit without the FOIP generic patches. Besides being a lot cleaner. Also the optional MMM-DLC.esp's are being writen over by these FOIP's above. So you have a situation where the actual DLC's Masters are overwriten by MMM, then that MMM stuff as well as parts of the actual DLC being overwriten again by FOIP. All the while with near zero quality control, as the people (meaning more than one person) Created these FOIP based on the load order they used themself, which could differ in the order of the mods as well as which mods. Then you also have to consider that MMM gets updated often, so there's no telling which version of MMM the person used when they created the FOIP. This an more is what makes the FOIP's so dirty once you look at the data. It's exactly like taking a puzzle an having 3-4 different people throw a bunch of pieces up in the air, with the hope that all the pieces land in the right spot in order to make the picture on the box.

 

Maybe Owned was a bad example, however you missed the whole point. Quote "The point being the less of this crap you have in a load order then the less complex it becomes, making a well working result that much more easy to achive..." End Quote All that is is questioning how attached to some of these mods you are. Somewhat suggesting that it's always a possible solution to drop some of the more complex mods in order to make the load order more simple, therefore more easy to fix, more easy to work with, in order to gain a better working result. A example, I know FWE, FOOK2, WMK, CRAFT is all stuff that people have the most problems building into a load order. So I don't use them, I'm not attached to them or anything else. There is a line somewhere where it becomes more trouble than it's worth. Anything near that I just won't use. If I really want to use it, then it's installed an fixed upon a already fixed an known good well working load order. Say I install 80 tiny simple mods, okay, now I want more, I'll install anything complex for sure by itself, and work it into the load order as a seperate job which durring that time I'm only focused on that one thing.

 

However all this being said. Nothing says that you couldn't use the most conflicting an most complex mods out there. The trick would be installing an fixing them with FO3edit one at a time, seperated by testing phases. This presents a problem though because you are rather attached to your huge overhawl mods, FWE, FOOK2, MMM. The simple lazy solution would be to drop 2 of them an only run one. Instant fix... But that's not what I would do.

 

1. First thing, you want to have a testing phase on the vanilla game. Installed outside of the windows program files folder, in honor of the old ways mostly. FOMM, FOSE, GECK, GECK update, and FO3edit get installed here too. No point testing your vanilla game without them when you know you'll be using them later. Set all that up, then don't change anything. Play RAOTW games (random A**hole of the wastes) random charicters you run an do crazy stuff with just to get a baseline of how well it will run on your system.

 

2. Follow the TweekGuide http://www.tweakguid...Fallout3_1.html Then test it again.

 

3. Once you have a known good near 100% well working vanilla game, from the settings, tweeks, an system settings. Install the DLC's an then test the game again. Maybe change some settings or tweeks. At least gain entry to some of the DLC's.

 

4. Testing phases before this point are subjective. The key thing is to rule out everything above as future causes to possible problems you might face later on. Sometimes I put a lot of effort in here into the test phases, but other times I just general test it to get a baseline of how well it runs. There are some crashes that happen inside vanilla fallout, certianly with vanilla +DLC. It's good at the very least to be able to tell the difference, if not fix it so that those crashes don't happen anymore. Any testing phase from this point on is not subjective, but rather systematic.

 

5. READ PINNED TOPICS ON HOW TO INSTALL MODS!

 

6. Overhawl Global class mods I.E. FOOK2, FWE, MMM, XFO, UF3P, PB, 19th 20th Century weapons, STALKER, or even WMK because it globaly conflicts. Anything basicly complex in nature also fits in here. These would be installed/fixed/tested seperately, one at a time. If you install them first then you will have to fix them many times as you add mods in. Fix them last an it's only one fix.

 

7. Tiny hand picked mods. Normally can be loaded in any order. But just because something is small doesn't mean it's not complex. Generally these are more easy to work with though. An such you can install/fix/test many at a one time before you get too burned out an need some game play.

 

8. You need to come up with a plan on which you will start on first. Overhawls yes you know you'll install/fix/test one at a time, but the tiny hand picked you might decide to either install 1-5 at a time or 40 at a time, 80 at a time. It all boils down to how much spreadsheet work you can take before your head explodes. However as much as possible this plan is geared toward quality control thru it's testing phases.

 

9. 80 or so tiny hand picked mods takes about 6-16 hours to fix depending on how good you are. FOOK2 will take 16 hours to fix no mater how good you are. If you installed it all at the same time, then tryed to fix it, it could take up to 2 weeks working 8 hours everyday while also having near zero quality control and very possible the end result doesn't work at all or land mines, causing a mass of coruption an conflict across the whole load order.

 

10. First thing in FO3edit, create a merge patch to merge all the list type data. You could also use Bash Gary if you would rather use it. Once these merge patches are saved don't fix them yet. Ignore them. Anytime you see them in the list of conflicts, ignore it because you know it will be fixed later on. This cuts your workload up. Start at the top work your way down. Fallout.esm open it up and look for conflicts, or apply a conflict filter. This is "by conflict status overall" below that "conflict" "Critical conflict" These three are at the top left of the filter screen. Then at the bottom click "flatten blocks/sub-blocks" "Flatten cell children" "Conflict status inherited by parent" The best guide on FO3edit is webinsized by CSB, puts the basic guide into a HTML form so you view it with IE or firefox. http://fallout3nexus...ile.php?id=9616

 

----Either here or at the end or both, you'll want to clean the mods. The FO3edit guide by CSB goes over it, but it's difficult to do it that way, loading each mod one at a time. I"ll load the whole load order, apply the conflict inherited by parent filter, then remove identical to master entrys, and also undelete set to disabled. Notice anytime that it's a major issue the mods name will be displayed in bold type in the list, meaning that it needs to be saved. Not all the mods will do this even if it detected identical to master records or things being set to deleted, I figure these are benign an ignore them. This way cleaning the mods only takes 5 or 10 minutes to do the whole load order.

 

11. Anytime you are about to fix something that you haven't fixed before an don't really know how, save the whole thing before you attempt it. So if you mess up you can just exit without save an load it up again to try a second time. It also doesn't hurt to have a back up copy of the mods, copy them an place it in a backup folder somewhere. You might also want to copy the load order to clipboard an place that inside the backup folder with the .esm an .esp backups, in case to totally screw up.

 

12. You never want to add a mod as a master to another mod in order to fix it. It's dangerous. Anything like this which can't be fixed by the normal copy paste or drag an drop means, gets fixed with a Override. You can do pretty much anything you want with Overrides, but it's also dangerous to add to many masters to an override. So split them up acording to what they do. Override-Scripts, Override-DLC, Override-NPC, Override-drugs, Override-weapons, and such. Then later on you can keep up with it.

 

----Say a part of Fallout.esm was overwriten by Broken Steel in order to provide DLC content. You install some mods, an some of those mods still have the vanilla part from Fallout.esm from when it was created because the creator didn't have broken steel or didn't know how to load multiple masters into the GECK. A quick fix for these issues would be to have created an Override, which loads last with the merge patch (Overrides an Merge patch can be in any order at the last of the load order) In this case I'd name it Override-DLC, which would deal with all the cases where DLC gets messed up from nooby mod creators. In your spreadsheet of your loaded load order with FO3edit on this conflicting entry, it's a conflict because a master file Broken steel doesn't match the non master plug in file that loads later on. In the view of this entry we have Fallout.esm, Broken Steel.esm, Random Mod.esp Fallout.esm and Random Mod.esp both match, but Broken Steel.esm is different because it adds DLC content to make things mo cooler. But in the current form that mo cooler will never be used, thus creating problems besides the obvious loss of coolness. So the way we quick fix it, would be right click the top part of broken steel.esm in the displayed entry, the top is the name, so right click that name. Pick "copy as override into" Then pick New file, Name the file from what it does, in this case "Override-DLC" It will ask if you want to add Broken Steel.esm as a master to this new Override-DLC, pick yes. Now you see there is another entry created after the Random Mod.esp entry, this allows Broken steels content to be used. Now later on when I find the same kind of problems inside The Pitt, OP anch, Point lookout, an Zeta, I'll "copy as Overide into" the Override-DLC rather than create a new override, because it deals with the same thing.

 

----Also you can use Overrides to create more custom content. As an example one in-game item which uses parts from 6 or more different mods. For example Vodka, It has distruction data an explodes when you shoot it from FOOK2 or distruction, then also if you drink it, it effects thirst from Primary needs, Gets you drunk bluring the screen from Inebriation, Gives you Stat buffs an perks from Ultimate perk pack, And then maybe even gives you a empty bottle from some other mod. Without the override only one of these effects would be allowed to work depending on which loaded last. In this case all you would need is a Override which uses FOOK2 or distruction, Primary needs, Inebriation, Ultimate perk pack, some other mod as masters to the override, meaning any content inside the masters for this override can be used inside the override. Then it's only a mater of drag an dropping the individual parts from the original to the Override

 

13. Merge patch with FO3edit takes list type data, containers, and NPC data mostly, then merges it. This is only a semi-automated process, after you create it an save it, you still have to fix it. I create a merge patch first thing, but I ignore it for some time until the rest of the load order is fixed. This splits up the mass of workload in NPC's an creatures, among other things. Plus you might add in mod from when you started fixing, meaning you would need a new merge patch. So why bother fixing it first. For the most part ignoring it at first splits up the huge amount of workload you need to do inside creatures an NPC. So I work on part of it when I'm making my way down the list of mods in the load order, then after that is done I fix whatever is in the Merge patch which usually takes about an hour or less.

 

14. Now it's time to finish it an test things out. From what the FO3edit guide by CSB says, create a master update on your load order. This is a fully automatic process which cleans up some hidden data an makes all the mods pusdo .esm. It's not required, but a good idea. .Esm & .Esp is the dirty way to do things. By the rules any .Esm only creates new content, where the .Esp places that content inside the game world. Not even Fallout.esm an the DLC's are clean enough to stick to that rule. So when it comes to Modders an they're mods, they are created by any means, an such are very dirty when it comes to this rule. Master update would be the best way to clean that up somewhat. I don't even need to know what it does exactly, an I"ll still use it.

 

15. At this point you are no longer creating random charicters. It's a real game, take time to create awesome charicters. Play with them until you die or want to install more mods. When that time comes. You'll want to start over with a new charicter anyway. If you want to use the same charicter an the same save games while you add in new mods or take a way mods or change anything in the load order in general. It's a risk, an you are always going to end up having problems with that. Anything you would do with this is experimental at best.

 

 

-----------------------------RULES-------------------------------------

 

 

Nevah quick save, Nevah auto save, Nevah use the continue button from the main loading screen. Disable them, then press ESC anytime you want to save the game.

 

Double loading save games can improve performance, but anything dealing with death or fighting is more prone to crash. Some folks shoot thier feet with mini nukes then load the save game again, which it's trying to auto load after you die, hence dangerous in the form of coruption. So at best it's ill advised. Launch the game, Load a save game, go thru a door or fast travel somewhere, press Esc an load the save game again (double load) The second load is usually better performing. You'll notice this if you are streaming music from pandora an launch fallout 3, either the frame rate will skip or the music from pandora will skip on the first load of a save game (from all the stuff going on in the background) But the second load usually will allow both to run smooth. Also a experimental means to get around a corupted save game or changing mods while using the same save game, which is ill advised, an such experimental. Dealing with dumping all of the containers you ever touched, including the player charicters inventory, an being in a totally empty cell. I never mess with it, because I know it's a risk.

 

Some players have gotten results from various 3rd party software. C++ code librarys, Klite codec pack, Direct X end user, an ect. I myself didn't need any of that. I only use whatever came inside the Microsoft auto update, WMP update, IE update, .NET framwork family, Java, Adobe flash player. But C++ came in the auto update from microsoft. I use the video card driver that came in the box with my card. And use "let the 3D application decide" as a global setting for my grapics card. I don't use AA which is set to Off, with 2X AF turned on.

 

If you screen freezes then it's probably from your multicore CPU an Fallout 3's multithreading capabiltys, which most folks will change their fallout.ini config notepad file so that the multithreading capabilties are limited to 2 threads, the tweekguide goes over it.

 

There are some doors if you enter them under certian conditions that will crash the game. This deals with corupted data in the cell buffer as well as Havok data in the cell. It could even be entering a cell where there are 50-100 NPC's from MMM increasing the spawns. It could be from you killing 50-100 targets in that cell. All we need to know is that it crashes. This can be avoided. Using two tools. If you are having the problem. 1. Activate bullet time before you enter the cell or fast travel to the area. 2.Use the groovatron mod to teliport out of a cell which is flagged "no travel from here" This will allow you to save the game, which I just fast travel to megaton from the black room an save the game. Any time there is a big huge battle like 50-100 targets I'll do this. If you don't you'll lose the progress.

 

In the long game, if you can play fallout for 4-8 hours without a crash, then there is a problem with fallout 3. Just like most games after long periods of play eventually it's going to crash or create bugs. So it's best to limit you games to 3 hours before you do a hard log, exit your programs an reboot the system. This is because the system cache will eventually go corupt, thus locking any coruption into the save game you created durring that time from when the data when corupt, an you finally crashed, which can be up to an hour or more. Running around an your game is crashing an you not know it. This can happen at any time though. Best to keep an eye out.

 

A good way to tell if you have a well running load order, is to be running around the wasteland, and after a save point, hit ESC, click exit to menu, if you make it to the main menu then yer good, if it's going corupt then it will crash.

 

MMM-Natural Selection, it's great, but it also poops all over the cell buffer, thus creating more chances for coruption, while also having many NPC's fighting in the background, far away from the charicter where they can't even see them, another possible cause for save game coruption

 

MMM-Hunting an Looting, also has the same problem of possible save game coruption based on the users system an performance, it has a few problems as well from what the read me says.

 

 

I'm currently using both the Natural Selection an hunting an looting. Concidering disabling them, if I can prove that it runs better with them turned off or editted.

[fap6000]

MMM-hunting an looting... is just a global setting for MMM of a 1 or 0, If it's 1 then npc's will hunt an loot kills, but with 0 it's disabled. I've found I can avoid some crashes with mass chaos type battles 50-100 targets dead or worse. Seariously mass chaos, the hunting an looting seemed to effect it somehow, be it extra data or whatever. And such is disabled from now on. It's not a big deal not having it turned on. I don't miss it... But it could help you in your load order problems.

 

Also I've sort of changed my playing rules a bit. I was kicking around the idea of a 3 death rule, because I had been just starting over any time I died, keeping with the simulation part of fallout 3. It's a perfect time to add in new mods is the main reason I do it. In the past I would always delete all my save games though. This time I didn't delete any of them, I still have some RAOTW save games, an two different charicters I spent time making an playing the game with. One died, then I started a new game, but they are both charicters I like playing with. I think from now on I'll just never delete a save game. The reasons why is that it was helpful in double loading save games.

 

Okay so the first charicter was at level 12 before I got killed. I started a new game after that with a new charicter, and got maybe 3-4 save games on that one just getting ready to start playing. Next time I loaded the game up, the continue button, which we avoid because it's pre-loaded save games (same as auto save prone to coruption) Anyhow the next time I loaded the game up this "pre-loading" for the continue button to work is based off the current save or the second charicter, seems like fallout 3 worked better having this one "pre-loaded" only I click load game an revert back to the first charicter that died at level 12. When I did that it dumpped the later "pre-loaded" data, then if I wanted as a way to double load, I could load a totally different save game. But either one would be good, the avoiding the "pre-loaded" or double loading into a later game.

 

All that being said, the having more than one save game might of just felt smoother from either MMM-hunting an looting being disabled, or because I cleaned the mods again after having fixed them. This time when I cleaned the mods I did it different though. First thing I did was MasterRestore, then I went to my Bethesda Softworks folder, right clicked, properties, then unchecked "READ ONLY" an selected to have it applyed to subfolders an files as well. From here I loaded the whole thing up with FO3edit, applyed a filter for cleaning "conflict inherited by parent" Then started by right clicking from the top to the bottom with "Remove identical to master" "set delete to disabled" I did this on each mod, then some were in dark bold text an others normal, meaning those dark ones would be saved.

 

What I did different was I went back to the top after I was done. Right clicked an "marked modified" on the mods which were not turned dark bold, which I removed identical to master records, an set delete to disabled. The first time I activated "Mark modified" it took forever, an I thought it had locked up, but it was just working on it. After about a minute it worked, an the mod was now in bold text like the others. So I did the whole list top to bottom. They all were dark now. Then I cleaned masters, after that I sorted masters. Cleaning removes masters if they are not needed, an sorting puts them in the right order.

 

Having done this one of my overrides would not save, it gave a error if I tried to save it. I pressed Ctrl S to save rather than exiting the program, because I figured this Error would happen. It's an easy fix, all you do is apply the remove identical to master filter again, an on the mod that didn't save clean it again, then save it. Once this was done, all of them were saved after the entire cleaning process acording to the FO3edit guide (but I did skip check for circled lists) This was a much better cleaning than the first one I did.

 

 

[WastelandAssassin]

now, this really is a mess

and you have been given some great advice from fap6000, well i didn't read them all, so i'm not sure if this has been said, so i will say it

aside from FOOK2 not being compatible with itself, it is also very incompatible with FWE, and using the two togather is just going to make a whole lot of mess to your game, so choose which one of them you want

like fap6000 said, FOOK2 isn't a safe mod to have, so unless you can fix all the problems, i would recommend you to uninstall it, for the safety of your game

than, get FO3Edit, and run the main function, and try to solve all the conflicts that you are almost sure to get

then, do a MasterUpdate (get the FO3Edit manual to learn how) to make sure that everything works as it should, and try to run your game

if after all of this, your game still won't work, than i hope you know what you'll need to do......

good luck, hope this helps, and that i did not made an idiot of myself, copying fep6000s suggestions

if i have, then i apologize

[Spineraker]

Yes, I thank you greatly, fap6000; that's exactly the information I needed. So far, I've gotten it working how I like it--with a few minor annoyances so far. The only crash I get is the same one I seemed to be having originally, however now I'm starting to think it may be an EVE-related issue (for some reason). I exit Megaton, some Ants attack, and shortly after everyone scrambles to kill them--I crash. I actually this time around was able to see an attack I've never seen before: A very large blue beam that impacts the ground; it seemed to be more like an orbital laser than anything else. I have no idea what fired it, and am not aware of any weapon like that in FOOK, FWE, EVE, or otherwise. I'm still investigating.

 

As for the FOOK2/FWE issue, I prefer the two together and am willing to try out what it takes to make them work together (though admittedly, I may give up after a while. I will still have tried, though.) So far, running through all of the merging and cleaning has caused much of the issues to clear--which makes me happy. Unfortunately, the largest issue I have so far is Primary Needs related, and I'm not sure where the issue is coming from yet. I went into the male bathroom in Megaton (so no NPCs or followers were with me at all), waited for almost 2-weeks (set timescale to 1,000,000,000,000, wait for 3-seconds or so, then turn back down again), and then saved--successfully and no errors. I obviously had an issue with Needs at this point (sleep is registering at around 2,000,000%, Thirst and Hunger are both being held at 100%...so he's on the brink of death, or would be if PN killed you). I open up the inventory and scarf down a ton of food--Braminochocolate, dog meat, pork 'n beans, a few other boxes of crap, etc. Only one thing out of all that actually touched the hunger--and I don't know which it was as I only had one of them. Nothing he drinks seems to satisfy thirst unless he dunks his head in a sink.

 

So that's what's currently going on. I'm trying what I can to fix this as it is, but if you've ever had this happen before and know what's going on--I'd appreciate a poke in the general direction. :) Thanks again dude!

[WastelandAssassin]

there is a problem with just that thing

you see, FOOK2 changes the foods and drinks that FWE is using in the Primary Needs plugin

so basicly, no matter how much you eat or drink, it won't work at all

there are two ways to solve this

either don't use FOOK2, or don't use the Primary Needs plugin

that is, these are the only two options i know of

 

aside from that, i hope you can get everything to work as it should

the thing is, FWE and FOOK2 conflct in many places, so i don't really know what you can do to get the two to work togather, if it is even possible

still, best of luck to you

[fap6000]

I'd duplicate it in a new game start. Start a new game. This will be your Secondary charicter, or heck you could make the primary a secondary. The point being you can now switch between the two anytime you want. This also provides a better situation for double loading save games, because the information in the save games are not related at all. If in your new game start you still have the original problem then it's something locked inside the Mods or the computer system an fallout.ini config or options even. However if in the new game start the problem does not occur, then more than likely that problem is inside that save game which causes it which is pretty common. That doesn't mean that the bad save game is toast, just that you would need to get out of that situation of the Ant's attacking somehow.

 

It's not the best way, but some players get results from launching a mini nuke at their feet. From what I hear it's limited to crash at save an fast travel or crash at level up. As a experiment you could try that, blow yourself up with a mini nuke an let the system auto load you into the same game an walk outside an see what happens. I've never had to do that, if a game even shows signs of going semi corupt I end up ditching it an moving on starting a new game. That got old so now I'm keeping all my saves, an more than one charicter, if you have a bunch you can sort of bounce between them, but that only will work if they were all created with a somewhat similar load order. Meaning you can add any mod you want, but can't take away a mod or change the order. Which is why it's the better idea to delete all your save games an start over completely if you have changed the load order.

 

Heck another experiment is to exit megaton, see the situation starting, and before it crashes go back inside megaton, open the console, and enter "PCB" as a way to manually purge the cell buffer then exit megaton again an see what happens. Yet another would be to not use the megaton door, fast travel to Vault 101, then make your way over to the ants, or enter the vault 101 cave then open the console, PCB, an back out into the wasteland. Walk over to megaton an see what happens or Save the game, reload it, walk or fast travel to megaton. Experimentz...

 

You'll learn eventually that all that experimental after the fact is pretty much all horsepoop. The only way to really avoid these types of issues is to run test games as you install an fix the mods. Problems come up here, then you fix them as they come up, rather than it being "after the fact" an now problems are hidden inside a load order of 100 mods rather than just being the last few you just installed. Call it quality control or whatever. Basicly anything you can do to rule out an narrow down the causes. But it splits up the workload, work work work, test play, work work work, test play, an so on.

 

For this load order you have the way to do that would be to install everything exept for FOOK2, FWE, and Real Injuries Primary Needs. Fix that whole load order so it's near 100% clean then test it for a few days. After it's "known good" Then you would install the other mods one at a time, fixing them to work with the other stuff, then also testing it again between each of the 3.

[fap6000]

Real Injuries Primary Needs gets installed on it's own because it touches on Food, making this a somewhat Global mod. It's always a complex fix for it, an such requires Overrides. This is why I always install it as a seperate job because it can take a few hours or more just fixing that one little mod.

 

RI PN, isn't super complex. It has a main script which controls hunger/thirst/sleep. This only keeps up with the count. You have stuff like 3 food, 5 food, 7food, 1 drink, 2 drink, 3 drink. Then in the actual injestables that you eat in-game have parts added into they effects they provide. When you eat one of those items it plays out all the effects. When the effect for the primary needs part is played it's linked to the Script which keeps up with the count. So basicly the script is counting how many of those type effects were played out in the last 24 hours or so.

 

Take FalloutFood.esp for example, it has tons of great food. Inside the entries though there is no effect added which adds to the Primary needs count. So you load primary needs an fallout food in the load order, then you create an override (Override-food) The Override-food .esp loads at the end of the load order, an also uses Primary needs an Fallout food as masters, meaning any content inside those two mods can be used inside the override. From there it's only a matter of adding the food from fallout food to the override, then inside each ingestable entry add the two effects which add to the primary needs main count script. You can't drag an drop these, it has to be copy paste, from the already created injestables inside the primary needs mods. So it's pretty hard work. Each food item has two effects so two for each one. Also they have different ratings. Like some only add 1 count of food, some 3 counts, some 5, depending on how big the mean would be. It's easy just pick similar things to copy paste from.

 

 

If I was going to build in FWE, FOOK2, and Primary needs. I'd start with FWE or FOOK2 probably. Doesn't matter which one. Fix that test that, then install the other Overhawl, then test them both working together. The last after I've played for a while I'd install real injuries primary needs, because it takes a while to fix.