spoiler Question about the Ashes

[DarkeWolf]

I think that a lot of you are missing out on the point that Utotri is trying to make. its not a matter of whether or not the ashes would actually cure his character or not. The point is... is that it is HUMAN NATURE (or in this case, meta human) that if you know that you are dying a slow death from a poison within you, and you have a potential cure for that, in your grasp.... that its going to cross your mind to use it yourself.

That is human nature for anybody in that situation, that they would consider it. And realistically speaking... the majority would take a portion of the pinch for themselves. And those that didnt, would have it nag at their mind every single time they thought of the ashes.

 

Now take a person who is UNWILLINGLY a warden, and have those thoughts going thru your head. Who sees this taint inside of them as a CURSE. They are going to have those thoughts going thru their minds at least 4 times as much as somebody who LIKES being a warden, or sees it as their duty. So that person would be SCREAMING that some invisible force that they know nothign about is stopping themselves from trying to be set free. (In this case, not even having the option to even try).

 

So from a RP (role play) standpoint, I can completely see the point, whether I agree or disagree.

But from a realistic standpoint, I know that you cant please Everybody, All the time. There's many areas of this game, that some people disagree very strongly with. Either on a RP level, or on a personal level.

Bioware isnt going to fix those points in the game, no matter how much people throw a fit about it. They aren't paid to. Their owning company wouldnt put the financial effort into it. They make money off NEW content. Not rehashing old content that people disagree with.

So for me it's pretty much a case of "GD!! That sucks!" Then I cool off and just have to deal with it :dry:

[ell46]

 

But from a realistic standpoint, I know that you cant please Everybody, All the time. There's many areas of this game, that some people disagree very strongly with. Either on a RP level, or on a personal level.

Bioware isnt going to fix those points in the game, no matter how much people throw a fit about it. They aren't paid to. Their owning company wouldnt put the financial effort into it. They make money off NEW content. Not rehashing old content that people disagree with.

So for me it's pretty much a case of "GD!! That sucks!" Then I cool off and just have to deal with it :dry:

 

I think that is the sign of a really good game, if everyone thought and felt the same BW/EA would have failed in my estimation.

[Thandal]

I think that is the sign of a really good game, if everyone thought and felt the same BW/EA would have failed in my estimation.

Agree! (With both the above, and with Utotri's original observation/frustration that a "valid" choice wasn't being made available.)

 

Personally, I have the same reaction to Morrigan's (Flemeth's?) DR. I had a real emotional reaction to what was (obviously) a totally fictional situation. That reaction was one of frustration and anger at the limited options presented to "me", (the identification with my PC being as deep as the writers could have wanted.) The feeling of being trapped with "Awful", "Awful!", or "God Awful!" as the only alternatives was intense. Yet my emotional need to select one of them and continue the "Mission" was equally, and perhaps even more intense.

 

That level of involvment and internal tension on the part of the player is what distinguishes DA from most (almost all?) other RPGs. We don't just play the role, we live it! And life doesn't always have a Happy Ending.

[SpellAndShield]

(@Stardusk) Your signature has a German line...

Well I, for one, seriously doubt that Death allows one to find anything, much less Justice. But that's probably a topic for a different thread, if not a completely different Forum! :turned:

 

Surely you understand the sense of the signature, don't you?

[brokenergy]

I guess I misunderstood the whole point of the post. Looking back I can see that I was running in circles with my reasoning and didn't understand the question that was being asked nor answered in to the best of my degree(it happens from time to time, it is human nature). There is however little problems which really itching me (as a character), like would the ashes work? If so, how much is needed to cure me? or If I'm cured from the taint, how would I defeat the Archdemon given that Alistair is the only other Grey Warden around?

 

Then when the time comes, how would you proceed with the DR? If Alistair dies unexpectedly, and Loghain is not in your party, how would you defeat the Archdemon? There are so many possibilities to consider that it's unhealthy. True if the Warden was unwilling to submit to the taint would do such a thing but there is a point where you would accept that this is your life and I guess by the time you reached the ashes you would have accepted your place in the GW and are willing to save Thedas.

[DarkeWolf]

Ok, now granted, this is kind of a sidetrack... but sort of not. What do you do with the ashes to apply them? Would the character in this situation try sprinkling them on themself? Hold them to head and heart and pray really hard? Would they try ingesting them? :yucky:

I mean, as a character, I wouldnt have any clue as to what to do with them to make them work. And even as a player, I dont know the exact method that they used to revive Eamon, using the ashes.... as it wasnt shown in the game.

 

BKE- yeah, there's a lot of consequences that could go very badly were the warden to be "cured" of the taint as far as the storyline goes. Tho from a RP standpoint, the character doesnt fully realize this, until much later in the story.

 

Utotri- please don't take this personally, when Thandal says this-

We don't just play the role, we live it! And life doesn't always have a Happy Ending.

I dont think that he is particularly directing that to you, but more saying it in general. In some of our other discussions, we've come to the conclusions that one of the moral lessons of the game is that there are always hard choices, always consequences to those choices, that there's just some things that you can't do anything about, sometimes people do die; you can't save them all, and that there's not always a Happy Ending.

While I really can't speak FOR Thandal, I don't believe that he intended the comment as an argument towards you.

[brokenergy]

True but I always thought that the warden would think of his/her actions before proceed them. Guess that is what I think about the warden when I play him/her; someone who understands the situation that Ferelden is in and is willing to risk his/her life to save his/her home from total destruction.

[ell46]

A couple of points I would like to raise. Don't over analyse things, forget everything you have learnt or know about the game and this is the first play through you know nothing, especially about killing an AD for a start, be careful not to consider things that at this point the game you know nothing about and remember these people haven't read any books or comics so they don't know it either. Personally I prefer to play and use only the info given in the game.

 

Regarding the use of the ashes, if they are miraculous in my opinion it doesn't matter how you use them they should work isn't that how we are told (in the real world religions) miracles happen, mostly by touching and often with a huge dollop of faith. As for the amount you use again miracles not medicine so the amount shouldn't matter, the only problem could be how much to use in case you need more in the future.

 

As for all the noble, self sacrificing GW stuff, I think it sucks. Why do ALL GWs have to go through a joining ceremony or die. I'm assuming Duncan chooses his GWs because there is something special about them, probably their skills with swords or whatever, these skills don't improve because of the taint, so why can't you have GWs who are there because they want to be and then within their Keep/base/group or where ever they hang out, the noble self sacrificing ones can volunteer to go through the joining ceremony and be the AD killers. If the blights come hundreds of years apart do they really need every GW to have a death sentence hanging over their heads for possibly no reason. As for the secrecy part, I think that is just rubbish even a GW who has been through the ceremony could tell anyone they like all about it, they aren't going to drop dead if they do, it all comes down to those who won't tell anyone don't and even going through a joining ceremony isn't going to make someone keep their mouth shut, plus even if people did know about the joining if they know they aren't going to be forced to do it they will still be happy to be GWs.

 

Personally the characters I play aren't happy/willing about being conned into becoming a GW and give all if I can help it. What is wrong with wanting to stay alive if you can, isn't part of their belief 'what ever it takes' surely that doesn't just apply to blights, it can't or you wouldn't have the Wardens Peak addon, that had nothing to do with a blight.

 

As for happy endings, I want a real happy ending. As I've said before I play games so I don't have to sit and think about lifes c*p I have had the year from hell since Christmas and being able to sit and play RPGs means for just a short time at least I don't have my brain scrambled going over and over reliving what is happening, it's my escape because I know that the game isn't real and the choices aren't that important I can always reload a save game if I make a mistake or I'm not happy with my choices, try doing that in real life. :laugh:

[brokenergy]

DA is never going to have a happy ending (and was never intended to), even the DR is not a happy ending. BW will try to give a brighter ending but it will be at a price as this is a "dark fantasy" not like the current RPG's that usually have a happy ending. I agree with you though ell, I want a satisfying ending to my warden.

[ell46]

Sod dark fantasies, why can't you have dark fantasies in the game play and still have a happy ending, you manged to do what ever it takes to stay alive and save Ferelden therefore you deserve one. They are almost there with the happy ending it wouldn't have taken much to have given that option.

 

I got mine using Thandal's console cheat, even the post coronation dialogue fitted like a glove which was a real bonus and Loghain was my GW that had done the joining, so I looked after him during the fight, not letting him risk death with any daring deeds so he could do the US everyone wins, well maybe not Anora but I don't like her anyway.

 

Only problem now is how on earth do I get rid of Loghain in the party camp that you can go to after the ending :laugh: there he is large as life standing shoulder to shoulder with Alistair. I've looked through the list of console cheats and can't see the option to remove him, I probably won't use that game again, but it niggles me that I can't remove him. Now there is a thought perhaps I can just ask him to leave, why didn't I think of that before, must go and try that now then I can put that game to bed.