Confused about Mods

[Jademalo]

Well to put it simply, Im completley confused with how this game is modded and the general file structure of it all. Ive got a few questions, and a few statements that if possible, could be answered and confirmed/corrected

 

1. .esp Files. I know they stand for "Elder Scrolls Plugin". .esm files, If i am correct, are different in that they will always load first (Being elder scrolls master files) and will produce extreme errors if two conflict. .esp files can override esm files, however.

 

1.5. esp files. What exactly are they? Am i right in thinking that they are the mods "code" in the sense of turning meshes and textures into wearable items, adding a chest that theyre located in, and just generally having the mods code in them.

 

 

2. Mod assests. things like textures and meshes. Am i right in thinking that some mods have this encompassed in .bsa files, while other mods just have the textures in the main folder?

 

2.5 Am i also right in thinking that when the game loads, it will load all assets that are in the "Data" folder, including meshes for mods and that. (A good example is HGEC, in that it doesnt have a .esp since it is essentially a straight texture and mesh change for all races). This stuff that is loaded overrides things in the oblivion.esm. Am i also right in thinking that with certain clothing that changes body meshes, if there are two items trying to change the same one, the one loaded more recent in the load order will take precidence.

 

2.7 This raises a question though, what happens if a texture is in the main folders outside of a .bsm, but is then included inside a bsm as well, which would load? Do the assets in the main folders load before any assets inside bsms, so the assets contained inside bsms will override them?

 

 

3. .bsa files. Am i right in thinking that these are just packeged mod assets that are linked to esp's so that they are only loaded by the game when that esp is activated, and so that the mod is easier to uninstall?

 

3.5 Am i also right in thinking that as i said earlier, since these are controlled by load order these can be loaded after assets that are in the main folders, thusy overriding them.

 

 

4. Load order. With load order, again, am i right in thinking that when oblivion loads a mod, it starts with the ESMs. these are master files, like the main game. It then goes on to load any assets in the folders. It then goes through allplugins in the load order, spesifying which is loaded first and last. If two plugins had a conflict, the one that is loaded later would override the earlier one, and also if it was tied to a bsa archive would load textures/meshes/etc to override what is in oblivion.esm, and then the foles in the main folders.

 

 

Just to be clear, when i say the files in the main folders, I mean the textures/meshes/etc that are inside the data folder / what they are directley. (e.g. oblivion/data/meshes/elf/whatever.meshextention) this is when .bsa's, esp/esm's are in oblivion/data directly. Just so im clear where im talking about.

 

 

I know ive been very long winded and complicated, but im looking for conclusive answers, and if im right either a yes, or a little correction to what ive said.

there arent any real clear.. things to do with this, and all google turns up are things about extra sensory perception.

[WastelandAssassin]

well, you are right in some areas, and wrong with others

now, i don't really know how this truly works, but i think i can point to the right direction

 

.esp files are basically files that enable the game to translate data into the game

.esm are basically the same, but they are loaded first, as they are usually either master files for others, or having major changes

and yes, .esm conflicts are a lot worse than .esp conflicts

 

now, some mods have their contents in .bsa files, while others just give you the folders as they are

i don't know which system is better, but both work well enough

 

now, you are a little bit wrong with part 2.5

when you load the game, it loads it with all the .esm and .esp files you tell it to load

basically, when you activate a mod, you add it to the load order

when you load the game, it loads every file that is used by any mod in your load order

 

now, whatever comes first in the load order, loads first

meaning that if you have one item that is changed by two mods, it is most likely that the one you load last, will be the one to work

i am not 100% sure that this works like that, but it makes sense

 

point 3 is right, as far as i know

i didn't really understand 3.5

 

let me point one thing again

you can have a mod in your data folder, but as long as you don't activate it, it won't load at all

so, the fact that you have the files in your Oblivion folder, doesn't mean it will load them

 

now, i am not that knowledgable when it comes to mods, but i hope i managed to help you out

please, if you don't understand something else, or have a question, do ask :thumbsup:

[Tomlong54210]

New Users Guide - http://tesivpositive.animolious.com/#new_users_guide

 

Let me know if you have any questions. Try to get through the whole thing first, and see the RR section at the bottom of each page. There may be links to other pages that can answer your questions there. Likewise their are many pages in each section that cover more specific topics.

 

 

Welcome to modified Oblivion!

- Tomlong54210

[Shadowfen]

1. .esp Files. I know they stand for "Elder Scrolls Plugin". .esm files, If i am correct, are different in that they will always load first (Being elder scrolls master files) and will produce extreme errors if two conflict. .esp files can override esm files, however.

 

1.5. esp files. What exactly are they? Am i right in thinking that they are the mods "code" in the sense of turning meshes and textures into wearable items, adding a chest that theyre located in, and just generally having the mods code in them.

 

2. Mod assests. things like textures and meshes. Am i right in thinking that some mods have this encompassed in .bsa files, while other mods just have the textures in the main folder?

Correct.

 

2.5 Am i also right in thinking that when the game loads, it will load all assets that are in the "Data" folder, including meshes for mods and that. (A good example is HGEC, in that it doesnt have a .esp since it is essentially a straight texture and mesh change for all races). This stuff that is loaded overrides things in the oblivion.esm. Am i also right in thinking that with certain clothing that changes body meshes, if there are two items trying to change the same one, the one loaded more recent in the load order will take precidence.

 

2.7 This raises a question though, what happens if a texture is in the main folders outside of a .bsm, but is then included inside a bsm as well, which would load? Do the assets in the main folders load before any assets inside bsms, so the assets contained inside bsms will override them?

 

Not quite. It's complicated. :teehee: The oblivion esm is loaded, then the other esms and then the oblivion master bsas (as specified in the ini file) are "loaded". I say "loaded" because the game does not keep every mesh, texture, and sound loaded in memory all the time - instead it keeps track of how to find those resources by name when it needs them. Finally the esps you have enabled are loaded and if they have similarly named bsa files, those resources are added to the lists. Finally the contents of the mesh, texture, sounds dirctories are also added to the lists. How all of these resource "pointers" override each other seems to depend on the relative timestamps of the sources... a newer file in the texture directory would override a same-named resource in a bsa. There are special circumstances and savage bugs involved with resource overloading that I barely understand myself. I recommend you check out devakm's Archive Invalidation Explained for a more knowledgeable explanation.

 

3. .bsa files. Am i right in thinking that these are just packeged mod assets that are linked to esp's so that they are only loaded by the game when that esp is activated, and so that the mod is easier to uninstall?

That is my understanding also and is how/why I have used them with my mods.

 

3.5 Am i also right in thinking that as i said earlier, since these are controlled by load order these can be loaded after assets that are in the main folders, thusy overriding them.

 

4. Load order. With load order, again, am i right in thinking that when oblivion loads a mod, it starts with the ESMs. these are master files, like the main game. It then goes on to load any assets in the folders. It then goes through allplugins in the load order, spesifying which is loaded first and last. If two plugins had a conflict, the one that is loaded later would override the earlier one, and also if it was tied to a bsa archive would load textures/meshes/etc to override what is in oblivion.esm, and then the foles in the main folders.

Not quite. Along with the rule that esms load before esps, load order is determined by the timestamps on the esm and esp files.

 

Now for resources, the load order is slightly different.

 

Bsa files specified in the oblivion ini file load first. Then the bsas associated with the esps get loaded, however they might not "win" a conflict (previously loaded resource with the same name) if the timestamp of the source bsa is older than the timestamp of the previous source bsa. Finally the individual files are loaded, but once again - the provider with the newest timestamp wins a conflict. So if the individual file under textures has a timestamp that is older than a previously loaded bsa that has the same texture name in it, the bsa version wins.

 

 

This is my best understanding of how it works. If I am wrong, please educate me! :teehee:

[Tomlong54210]

3. BSAs do not have to be linked to ESPs, but that is the simplest option...generally. The original BSAs are loaded through INI registration, and switching them to being loaded by a plugin is unnecessary and tedious. For user-made mods, plugin name association requires the least maintenance for the user.

 

BSAs and Archive Invalidation - http://tesivpositive.animolious.com/index.php?page=bsas_and_archive_invalidation

 

"Am i also right in thinking that with certain clothing that changes body meshes, if there are two items trying to change the same one, the one loaded more recent in the load order will take precidence."

 

I am not quite sure what you mean by this. Clothing does not change body meshes. It can only replace the body parts. For example, when your character equips a top, the top replaces the upperbody.nif or the femaleupperbody.nif file.

[Jademalo]

Thanks a lot, youve all really helped =]

 

Of course, i still have a couple of questions..

 

If i disable an ESP that uses some data in the data folders, will oblivion still keep track of the pointers so these technically could be loaded with the mod disabled?

Also with regards to mods that dont have ESP's, like HGEC bodies, are they loaded, the game sees the textures and meshes for them are replacements for stuff directly in Oblivion.esm and that theyre newer, and then overrides the file in the ESM with the other file?

 

And with assets that dont try to override anything and are just there to be used by mods, they arent funny loaded since nothing in the game world is wanting to load them?

[Shadowfen]

Thanks a lot, youve all really helped =]

 

Of course, i still have a couple of questions..

 

If i disable an ESP that uses some data in the data folders, will oblivion still keep track of the pointers so these technically could be loaded with the mod disabled?

Also with regards to mods that dont have ESP's, like HGEC bodies, are they loaded, the game sees the textures and meshes for them are replacements for stuff directly in Oblivion.esm and that theyre newer, and then overrides the file in the ESM with the other file?

 

And with assets that dont try to override anything and are just there to be used by mods, they arent funny loaded since nothing in the game world is wanting to load them?

 

Resources that are provided in the textures/meshes folders will be "loaded" insofar as Oblivion will know their existence and how to find them if needed, whether they are used by a mod or not. BSA archives get "loaded" if they are listed in the master archives lists in the oblivion.ini or if they have the same base name as an ACTIVE mod esp (not esm). The actual contents of the resource don't actually get read in until the first time that they are loaded as a part of an area (character/whatever) your character enters where they are used.

[Jademalo]

Thanks a lot, youve all really helped =]

 

Of course, i still have a couple of questions..

 

If i disable an ESP that uses some data in the data folders, will oblivion still keep track of the pointers so these technically could be loaded with the mod disabled?

Also with regards to mods that dont have ESP's, like HGEC bodies, are they loaded, the game sees the textures and meshes for them are replacements for stuff directly in Oblivion.esm and that theyre newer, and then overrides the file in the ESM with the other file?

 

And with assets that dont try to override anything and are just there to be used by mods, they arent funny loaded since nothing in the game world is wanting to load them?

 

Resources that are provided in the textures/meshes folders will be "loaded" insofar as Oblivion will know their existence and how to find them if needed, whether they are used by a mod or not. BSA archives get "loaded" if they are listed in the master archives lists in the oblivion.ini or if they have the same base name as an ACTIVE mod esp (not esm). The actual contents of the resource don't actually get read in until the first time that they are loaded as a part of an area (character/whatever) your character enters where they are used.

 

Ah right, thanks! Thats pretty much what i was trying to mean.

What do you mean by (not esm) though? do you mean that if a bsa has the same base name as an esm, it doesnt get loaded, while if it has the same name as an esa, it will?

[Jademalo]

Right.. ive gont one more question after reading things and completley not getting them.

 

ArchiveInvalidation.

 

If a texture is listed in this list, what exactly is invalidated? say we have "Textures/Weapons/SilverShortSword.dds" inside the ArchiveInvalidation list.Is that texture invalidated inside all archives so it will load the one in the data folder? Or the one in the data folder so it will load the most recent one in the archives.

 

I dont want to know anything more about archive invalidation, I just would like to know the simple answer to what exactly is invalitated when a path is put in there.

 

Thanks

[Shadowfen]

 

Ah right, thanks! Thats pretty much what i was trying to mean.

What do you mean by (not esm) though? do you mean that if a bsa has the same base name as an esm, it doesnt get loaded, while if it has the same name as an esp, it will?

 

Yes, that is precisely what I mean. That is why the Oblivion bsas are all listed in the ini to be loaded as master archives - because the Oblivion.esm does not itself have bsa autoloading "privilege". :teehee: