spoiler Alistair, King Cailan, Loghain's betrayal & an unrecognized Grey Warden.

[GoldenAngelHeart]

I am wondering something and I would like to hear your thoughts...

 

Firstly, I wasn't sure if the ''Spoilers'' section was the right place or not but I decided to take a chance considering what I may say could be deemed ''spoiling'' it for others.

 

At any rate, after so many play-throughs, I got to thinking and it occurred to me that if you were to compare the two brothers, they are quite a bit a like should you leave Alistair ''un-hardened'' and very much different if he is ''hardened''.

 

Understandably, there is a bit of a difference when observing how much glory of the battle means to Cailan compared to Alistair who is pretty much out to do what is right rather than for the glory.

 

Neither one of the two brothers really enjoy being in court and would prefer to be else-where. But if Alistair is hardened, then he would willingly take up the mantle and crown of the King which leaves me with the opinion that there was never anyone around to ''Harden'' Cailan, to prepare him for his seat on the throne after his father died. Sure, there was Loghain but as battle-hardened as he was, he didn't see fit to help his soon to be son-in-law. I am wondering why King Maric didn't either, considering that would have been one of his responsibilities as well as duties as Cailan's father and king.

 

When you are given the option, as The Warden, you can either choose to respect Alistair's wishes and leave him unhardened to keep him where he is most happiest or you can choose to under-mine Alistair so he will take the throne on his own and still it isn't for the glory but because he feels he can actually ''do some good'' for his people. It's not any wonder that Anora had to do the majority of the ruling while Cailan was out seeking glory, but I can't help but wonder if Loghain had quite a bit to do with Cailan's lack of enthusiasm for the throne considering what it led to at Ostagar.

 

The wiki says, and I quote "Cailan never found himself heavily involved in Ferelden's politics, and seemed satisfied about Anora dealing with the administrative aspects of government, as in his mind, a true king's duty was to unite his people against a common enemy." Maybe I am wrong, but I assumed that being involved in the politics is considered part of uniting people ''against a common enemy'' whether it be in the palace or on the battle-field. As much as I hate to agree with Loghain, he was correct when he referred to Cailan as ''a child wanting to play at war''. He spoke the truth of it and it was something I noticed too when I first began playing the game.

 

Which leads me to believe that the reason Loghain turned his back at Ostagar was because he truely believed that he and Anora would be better ruling Ferelden with Cailan out of the picture. Personally, he could have come up with a better way to usurp Cailan from the throne rather than betray him the way he did. Sure, Cailan's dealings with the Empress had quite a bit to do with the betrayal but, again, Loghain could have figured out a better solution than deserting the King and the army.

 

Though usurping Cailan would remove Anora from the throne as well, so perhaps Loghain felt there was no other choice but when he went as far as having Howe massacre the Cousland's and sending a mage assassin to kill Arl Eamon just to make sure there was no one to contest the throne was insane. He had to know that Alistair was Maric's son.

 

Which leads me to this final thought...

 

Any time that my Warden and Alistair ran into people sent by Loghain, it was always my Warden and not Alistair that was considered the threat against Loghain and his ambitions to rule Ferelden. In Lothering, Loghain's men said that it was my Warden and not Alistair that they were searching for and needed to arrest, maim or kill.

In the Frostback mountains the bounty hunters say ''It's about time a warden showed up'' instead of wardens and in Denerim, the knight that stops my Warden and accuses her of killing Duncan, the rest of the wardens and King Cailan not both of them insists on dueling her because he felt she was at fault, not both her and Alistair. Even the Captain of the Guard in Denerim says it was her likeness that was shown to all the guards, not both of their's. Plus, Zevran says ''The Grey Warden dies here'' not Wardens. Loghain knew that Alistair was also a warden and that he was a Prince. So why is my Warden the only one recognized by these people looking to either kill her or arrest her?

 

I never go anywhere without Alistair because with the right tactics set-up he is a superb tank. But I cannot understand why, when we are out and about running into all these accusers, Alistair is not recognized at a Grey Warden and Loghain's biggest threat to the throne.

 

 

 

 

 

[Thandal]

You are totally correct that whenever anyone, (and I do mean "anyone", including a player) says "the Warden", they mean the PC.

 

Heck, when *I* say "the Warden" I don't mean Alistair. Or Riordan. Who, considering he's supposed to be Fereldan, has a pretty funny accent if you ask me. (Which you didn't, but I said it anyway.)

[GoldenAngelHeart]

True enough. For a Warden ''born and bred in Highever'', he has a remarkable accent that seems to fit Orlais rather than Ferelden.

 

Unless the saying is true if someone were to spend enough time in a foreign country, they adopt their accent after a while. Though it would seem that it would need to be a very long while.

[DracoAngel]

True enough. For a Warden ''born and bred in Highever'', he has a remarkable accent that seems to fit Orlais rather than Ferelden.

 

Unless the saying is true if someone were to spend enough time in a foreign country, they adopt their accent after a while. Though it would seem that it would need to be a very long while.

I would say its true. I have a southern drawl, and I have never once been to any place like Texas, Georgia, ect. The most southern place I have ever been to is Southern California (And there is no southern drawl here, its all latin. Anyway). My accent comes from a history teacher who I had for three years who was from Texas and a mother who spent like a month in Louisiana but thinks she is southern :laugh: After the first year with the teacher(who I literally had all day everyday for 3 years of highschool)I was speaking with a southern accent that all my friends were pointing out and I haven't been able to drop it. I still get people to try and get me to say "pie" all the time because my "i's" sound like "aye"

 

Anyway, back onto the subject at hand.

 

I had always assumed that the reason the PC was the one always referred to when a "Warden" and not Alistair is because not everyone chooses to have him in the party all the time(I don't. But I know a lot of people who do). So it made more sense to put everything as a singular instead of plural when concerning the PC and Alistair. It was probably too much hassle for the developers to go in and change every single dialogue concerning the Warden and Alistair to be singular or plural to change based on the party setup.

 

As to Cailan being hardened or not. If you've ever read The Stolen Throne, it gives a lot of background into Maric and the type of man he was while fighting for his throne. At the beginning he was very much lighthearted and had the same kind of attitude Cailan does. It's not until the end when Logahin shows Maric the truth about his elf lover(I can't for the life of me remember her name). That act hardens him, which is Loghain's intention. So I can understand why Maric never went out of his way to harden Cailan. He didn't want his son to be like he became and he didn't necessarily have a lot to do with his son in his formative years. Maric was going through a lot of depression over Rowan's death and couldn't bare to be around his son for the longest time. And like both his sons, he doesn't enjoy life at court. But he does his duty. It's what he fought for and what his mother died for.

As to why Loghain didn't? Perhaps he wanted to respect Maric's wishes? Loghain had a lot of love and respect for Maric.

 

Yes, I can see one side where Loghain's actions at Ostagar he saw as a "greater good". To get the child off the throne and put someone there (meaning himself and Anora) that would rule better in his opinion. But the fact that this was mostly brought on due to his distrust of Orlais shadows any kind of good intentions he may have had. He didn't just kill Cailan, he massacred most of the Ferelden army. You would think with his fanatic fear of Orlais he would have seen the stupidity of wiping out most of Ferelden's military force. Better solution: Hire a Crow to assassinate Cailan. Harder for it to be traced back to Loghain, he could have pinned it on Orlais. He had no qualms with sending the Crows after the Warden and Alistair.

[GoldenAngelHeart]

Indeed. Hiring a crow to assassinate Cailan would definately been a better way to go and any growing trust towards Orlais would be completely diminished with just one or two bags of gold. Depending on the price. After all, Zevran does say that kings are assassinated frequently in Antiva.

 

I haven't read any of the books but I have been wanting to find them at the local library. Her name is Fiona, by the way and there is much debate over whether or not she is in fact Alistair's true mother. I, personally, don't have a formed opinion over that subject except to say that anything is possible, considering that an Elf/Human child would resemble their human parentage and the fact that Fiona was a mage could account for Alistair's fascination with magic. But that's pretty much it as far as my thoughts go on the matter.

 

On subject though, the writing by the developers does make a bit more sense and makes it more easier to understand why it would be that way.

[Thandal]

..... Her name is Fiona, by the way and there is much debate over whether or not she is in fact Alistair's true mother. I, personally, don't have a formed opinion over that subject except to say that anything is possible, considering that an Elf/Human child would resemble their human parentage ...

 

Actually, Faynriel, (a significant side-quest character across multiple Acts of DA2) has an elven mother and a human father, and is clearly at least half-elven in appearance. So I seriously doubt that Alistair's parentage is anything other than 100% human.

[theskymoves]

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Edited November 2, 2014 by theskymoves

[DracoAngel]

Indeed. Hiring a crow to assassinate Cailan would definately been a better way to go and any growing trust towards Orlais would be completely diminished with just one or two bags of gold. Depending on the price. After all, Zevran does say that kings are assassinated frequently in Antiva.

 

I haven't read any of the books but I have been wanting to find them at the local library. Her name is Fiona, by the way and there is much debate over whether or not she is in fact Alistair's true mother. I, personally, don't have a formed opinion over that subject except to say that anything is possible, considering that an Elf/Human child would resemble their human parentage and the fact that Fiona was a mage could account for Alistair's fascination with magic. But that's pretty much it as far as my thoughts go on the matter.

 

On subject though, the writing by the developers does make a bit more sense and makes it more easier to understand why it would be that way.

Wrong elf lover. That one was after the war (quite a few years after. Cailan was quite a few years old).

 

Katriel. That was her name. She was an elven bard hired by a mage under the Orlesian King Meghren as a spy against Maric. I won't get into too many details and spoil anything for you since you plan on reading the novels :smile:

 

Fiona is still alive. She is in The Calling, which is where she and Maric first met and was even in the Masked Empire (I did not like her -.-)

 

I could have sworn that Maric had finally told Alistair who his mother is. In the comics. But I have never read the comics to know for certain. I know in the comics its finally revealed why those who carry a child of Calenhad blood end up dying unless they are of Calenhad's blood or a mage. The reason for Rowan's death.

 

I think Faynriel was a weird anomaly on Bioware's part. In the books any half-blooded elf child was always described to take after their human parent, looking nearly 100% human; but some had small points on their ears(not all). Even in DA2 it was commented on how Faynriel looked more human than elf, even if to us he looked pretty elven (at least to me he did). Granted, he didn't have those huge donkey ears going on :laugh: *shrug* but who knows. Alistair's wiki page may just be lying to us to throw us all off, says under his race "Human (elf-blooded).

 

I need answers Bioware!

 

EDIT: Just was going through an interview with David Gaider. Alistair's lineage will be coming up in DA:I

" It comes up in the game and I will leave it at that. I don't really want to get into it before that because, like I said, it will come up in the game. That will say everything about it I think I need to say."

 

Edited November 2, 2014 by DracoAngel

[Thandal]

AFAIAC, (as far as I am concerned) only the games are canon. Whatever is published in books/graphic novels might as well be fanfic.

 

Feynriel is the only (known) half-elf in all of Thedas seen in DAO or DA2, and he is clearly "not all human". :armscrossed:

So unless and until that changes, I'm sticking with "Alistair is 100% human!" :laugh:

[theskymoves]

 

Feynriel is the only (known) half-elf in all of Thedas seen in DAO or DA2, and he is clearly "not all human". :armscrossed:

So unless and until that changes, I'm sticking with "Alistair is 100% human!" :laugh:

 

Slim Couldry is elf blooded, and entirely human in appearance.