The Moon or Mars?

[AliasTheory]

For the search for life, yes. Mars is a very unpopular canidate for the journey of alien life at the moment. Europa would seem a more logical choice than some dusty, red iron, desert world.

 

Well if we were to take into account the practicality in the overall scheme of things...

 

Landing on Mars using conventional methods is far more feasible, especially considering the human lifespan, compared to Europa. Plus if life were to actually exist on Europa, we would also have to take precautionary measures as we could potentially contaminate the water. And we don't know what those lifeforms are. For all we know, they could be carnivorous shark-snake hybrids. (Which would be awesome as what would be considered a highly advanced form of life.)

 

On the plus side, Europa has an oxygen-filled atmosphere. It also has a very weak atmosphere relative to Earth, so that could potentially help escape velocities but easily make other complications.

 

Mars also likely holds secrets to the origins of Earth and life. Then, with all things considered, how would you get back? The moon should really come first; if mankind can build space elevators composed of some highly durable material like CNTs, transportation of resources would be much more efficient.

Edited December 4, 2010 by AliasTheory

[JohannesGunn]

For the search for life, yes. Mars is a very unpopular canidate for the journey of alien life at the moment. Europa would seem a more logical choice than some dusty, red iron, desert world.

 

Well if we were to take into account the practicality in the overall scheme of things...

 

Landing on Mars using conventional methods is far more feasible, especially considering the human lifespan, compared to Europa. Plus if life were to actually exist on Europa, we would also have to take precautionary measures as we could potentially contaminate the water. And we don't know what those lifeforms are. For all we know, they could be carnivorous shark-snake hybrids. (Which would be awesome as what would be considered a highly advanced form of life.)

 

On the plus side, Europa has an oxygen-filled atmosphere. It also has a very weak atmosphere relative to Earth, so that could potentially help escape velocities but easily make other complications.

 

Mars also likely holds secrets to the origins of Earth and life. Then, with all things considered, how would you get back? The moon should really come first; if mankind can build space elevators composed of some highly durable material like CNTs, transportation of resources would be much more efficient.

Space elevators, while much cheaper than standard rockets, aren't really necessary. You just need to boost enough refinement capability into orbit and on to the moon, set it down, and barring any unforeseen difficulties, you could be mining, refining, and machining titanium in a matter of months. You could use the waste heat produced from the smelting process to heat the entire base, and expanding would just be a matter of producing the titanium hab sections on site and connecting them. Also, it would serve as the forward base for exploring the solar system. Lifting something from the surface of the moon is much simpler and more cost-effective than lifting from Earth, and if you do it at the correct point in the orbit of the moon, you're that much closer to your destination.

[AliasTheory]

Space elevators, while much cheaper than standard rockets, aren't really necessary. You just need to boost enough refinement capability into orbit and on to the moon, set it down, and barring any unforeseen difficulties, you could be mining, refining, and machining titanium in a matter of months. You could use the waste heat produced from the smelting process to heat the entire base, and expanding would just be a matter of producing the titanium hab sections on site and connecting them. Also, it would serve as the forward base for exploring the solar system. Lifting something from the surface of the moon is much simpler and more cost-effective than lifting from Earth, and if you do it at the correct point in the orbit of the moon, you're that much closer to your destination.

You sure sound like you are oversimplifying things. That would definitely be ideal, but mining and refining titanium isn't that easy, especially if you were to build with it on such a scale. I know for a fact it isn't like steel. Heard something like this in an astronomy class before.

 

Found this:

 

http://www.moonminer.com/Lunar-Titanium.html

 

As far as I know, the process of refining Titanium hasn't changed at all, though some new and better methods are arising. But yeah, if possible, do your business there.

Edited December 7, 2010 by AliasTheory

[marharth]

For everyone talking about going to the moon to live there or mine.

 

That's not really a great idea, we don't have a population problem yet, and we probably will never have one since we end up killing each other so much.

 

Mining the moon for resources that are not that helpful in exchange for building a massive elevator or sending a bunch of rockets to the moon is well uh... Not a good idea.

 

It would be pointless to go to the moon to live there to avoid a disaster, if something happens to the earth, somethings going to happen to the moon.

 

I don't see much point in ever going to the moon again...

 

I also wish that NASA would stop being so d*** stupid...

 

I mean seriously they act like finding a arsenic based life form is a big deal? Can't anyone with a brain figure out that maybe life doesn't have to be exactly what we are?

 

Seriously spending research money on crap like that... I kinda went off topic there, sorry :P

[JohannesGunn]

Yeah, I was oversimplifying, but I AM aware of the differences between steel and titanium. I just think it is a better alternative than trying to build a space station from steel, and having to lift EVERY SINGLE LITTLE PIECE from the surface of the Earth. While there are better materials for building than titanium, and certainly cheaper ones, I firmly believe that if we don't find a way off this rock eventually, we humans, as a race, are doomed. And not necessarily by a comet, or asteroid, or anything like that. No, we're perfectly capable of destroying ourselves at the drop of a hat. So, for the people who want to bury their head in the sand and say that going ANYWHERE OTHER THAN EARTH is stupid and a bad idea, I say that stagnation is the brother of destruction. Unless we keep moving forward (and by forward, I mean outward to other parts of the solar system, and beyond), humanity will wither and die on the vine.

 

This is all, of course, just my opinion...

[AliasTheory]

Yeah, I was oversimplifying, but I AM aware of the differences between steel and titanium. I just think it is a better alternative than trying to build a space station from steel, and having to lift EVERY SINGLE LITTLE PIECE from the surface of the Earth. While there are better materials for building than titanium, and certainly cheaper ones, I firmly believe that if we don't find a way off this rock eventually, we humans, as a race, are doomed. And not necessarily by a comet, or asteroid, or anything like that. No, we're perfectly capable of destroying ourselves at the drop of a hat. So, for the people who want to bury their head in the sand and say that going ANYWHERE OTHER THAN EARTH is stupid and a bad idea, I say that stagnation is the brother of destruction. Unless we keep moving forward (and by forward, I mean outward to other parts of the solar system, and beyond), humanity will wither and die on the vine.

 

This is all, of course, just my opinion...

 

Yep, now that is more practical. Seeing how far mankind has come during its brief existence, I'm sure we'll find a way. Chemical propulsion, as far as big rockets and stuff, will need to go. it just isn't efficient enough. So to get all the stuff we need to get started on this ambitious endeavor though, we need an easier way to ship things. Space elevators would be pretty cool. Makes me think of space tourism.

 

That's not really a great idea, we don't have a population problem yet, and we probably will never have one since we end up killing each other so much.

 

I don't think so. Birth rates are increasing and death rates are decreasing. Although we are working to combat the extreme birth rates in developing countries, this world does have a lot of people. As time goes on, medical science will further extend the lifespans of those who may normally have died, As we get more people, we need more space, resources and just overall carrying capacity. Hygienic conditions will worsen and we'll need more energy to run our lives. Unless something amazing happens, we are probably going to have too many people on spaceship Earth, and all the problems of overpopulation. And the solution to that isn't to kill a bunch of people, it is to prevent so many uncontrolled childbirths in the first place. Education is a big factor here if we were to prevent such a thing, and it makes sense; teach people what you don't want them to do so they won't do it.

 

Population levels are projected to keep on climbing. If it doesn't stop, we need to get out of here.

 

It would be pointless to go to the moon to live there to avoid a disaster, if something happens to the earth, somethings going to happen to the moon.

 

What kind of disasters? We've concluded some pretty terrible things have happened during Earth's lifespan, but the moon is still there and is fine. Not saying nothing can ever happen though. But it would probably be inefficient anyway as of the moment; just getting some several people there is hard enough.

[marharth]

Yeah, I was oversimplifying, but I AM aware of the differences between steel and titanium. I just think it is a better alternative than trying to build a space station from steel, and having to lift EVERY SINGLE LITTLE PIECE from the surface of the Earth. While there are better materials for building than titanium, and certainly cheaper ones, I firmly believe that if we don't find a way off this rock eventually, we humans, as a race, are doomed. And not necessarily by a comet, or asteroid, or anything like that. No, we're perfectly capable of destroying ourselves at the drop of a hat. So, for the people who want to bury their head in the sand and say that going ANYWHERE OTHER THAN EARTH is stupid and a bad idea, I say that stagnation is the brother of destruction. Unless we keep moving forward (and by forward, I mean outward to other parts of the solar system, and beyond), humanity will wither and die on the vine.

 

This is all, of course, just my opinion...

 

Yep, now that is more practical. Seeing how far mankind has come during its brief existence, I'm sure we'll find a way. Chemical propulsion, as far as big rockets and stuff, will need to go. it just isn't efficient enough. So to get all the stuff we need to get started on this ambitious endeavor though, we need an easier way to ship things. Space elevators would be pretty cool. Makes me think of space tourism.

 

That's not really a great idea, we don't have a population problem yet, and we probably will never have one since we end up killing each other so much.

 

I don't think so. Birth rates are increasing and death rates are decreasing. Although we are working to combat the extreme birth rates in developing countries, this world does have a lot of people. As time goes on, medical science will further extend the lifespans of those who may normally have died, As we get more people, we need more space, resources and just overall carrying capacity. Hygienic conditions will worsen and we'll need more energy to run our lives. Unless something amazing happens, we are probably going to have too many people on spaceship Earth, and all the problems of overpopulation. And the solution to that isn't to kill a bunch of people, it is to prevent so many uncontrolled childbirths in the first place. Education is a big factor here if we were to prevent such a thing, and it makes sense; teach people what you don't want them to do so they won't do it.

 

Population levels are projected to keep on climbing. If it doesn't stop, we need to get out of here.

 

It would be pointless to go to the moon to live there to avoid a disaster, if something happens to the earth, somethings going to happen to the moon.

 

What kind of disasters? We've concluded some pretty terrible things have happened during Earth's lifespan, but the moon is still there and is fine. Not saying nothing can ever happen though. But it would probably be inefficient anyway as of the moment; just getting some several people there is hard enough.

 

What I meant by something happening to the earth was anything that would make us have to leave...

 

We would be able to survive anything by living underground/using tech if it wouldn't also effect the moon is what I am saying...

 

The thing with over population is that it will take at least a thousand years to get that bad. And we act like we can only live on land surface, we could make underwater living places, underground living areas...

 

In the long term, going to the moon might be a good idea, but for now there is a lot of bigger issues...