How Does Oblivion Handle Shields

[TheThirdRace]

I would like to be able to use a shield while I don't have any weapon equiped.

 

That seems simple but here are my problems:

1- How do I force the shield to show up when I don't have any weapon equiped

2- Is there a way to affect all shield without having to add the script to every little f@*!*&?%king shield

3- Is there a way to know if a shield is equiped

4- Is there a way to know if a weapon is equiped

5- Is there a GOOD (read extensive, precise, like a programming manual) construction set wiki around

 

I read a lot since yesterday and I found some interesting functions like GetWeaponSkillType, GetIsUsedItemType, IsShieldOut, IsWeaponOut, but the lack of documentation about theses functions will force me to test all of them in every situation to know the exact return value for all the conditions.

 

All I want to do is to have a REAL pure magical character, a character which doesn't need/use/have on him any weapon and Oblivion seems to do everything to stop me doing so.

 

Think about it, since when someone has to have equiped a dagger to use a shield? Even if it's not common to use a shield these days! The REAL way would have been to show the shield whenever a shield is equiped. If the player doesn't have any weapon equiped and go in combat ready mode using his hands then the shield should be toss in his inventory and the player would be able to use both hands to hit opponents. And even then, why a player could not use a shield and use the extra hand to hit the opponent after a block?

 

Is this Besthesda's vision of realism?

 

Anyone has an idea to implement this, that would be a huge bug fix?

[cryocry]

...3- Is there a way to know if a shield is equiped

4- Is there a way to know if a weapon is equiped...

 

 

 

 

They are highlighted in your journal. Also, they show on your charactar in the journal and in the game.

[TheThirdRace]

...3- Is there a way to know if a shield is equiped

4- Is there a way to know if a weapon is equiped...

 

 

 

They are highlighted in your journal. Also, they show on your charactar in the journal and in the game.

 

 

Well, hum obviously I can see that in the journal and in the game!

 

You have to consider the entire question, I want to create a mod that does that, so I will need some scripting help to acheive that goal. So when I ask "3- Is there a way to know if a shield is equiped" and "4- Is there a way to know if a weapon is equiped" I meant is there a scripting way to do that to acheive the greater goal which is to use a shield without any weapon.

 

Anyway, thanks for your efforts, your are kind to have tried. Thanks a lot.

 

Any other hints?

[Vagrant0]

 

I believe that the whole "no weapon, no shield" thing is hard coded to hand to hand combat. The only way I can think of doing what you want to do is to have something like an invisible dagger (100% transparent alpha), and equip that with the shield, and just never unsheath it. If you have a weapon and shield equiped, the shield will always be out, and you can block without having to ready a weapon.

 

Although, someone having a fist fight while wearing a shield doesn't seem like a particularly good idea. Even a dagger makes more sense in this regard, Roman soldiers kept a gladius for close combat. While not a dagger, in this case, it's size and agility allowed it to be used affectivly in close quarters. Try swinging a long sword in the middle of a battle with 500+ other people packed around you pushing and shoving, you can't. While a situation like that is rare in Oblivion, the principle is the same.

 

 

*edit*I tend to remove quotes because it adds unnecessary length to the topic. In this case I only added it so that it could be known what I was responding to. Quoting exactly, and all of what was said in the previous post, or even on the same page just seems redundant. Anyone who has read that far should know what is being said.

[cryocry]

 

I believe that the whole "no weapon, no shield" thing is hard coded to hand to hand combat. The only way I can think of doing what you want to do is to have something like an invisible dagger (100% transparent alpha), and equip that with the shield, and just never unsheath it. If you have a weapon and shield equiped, the shield will always be out, and you can block without having to ready a weapon.

 

Although, someone having a fist fight while wearing a shield doesn't seem like a particularly good idea. Even a dagger makes more sense in this regard, Roman soldiers kept a gladius for close combat. While not a dagger, in this case, it's size and agility allowed it to be used affectivly in close quarters. Try swinging a long sword in the middle of a battle with 500+ other people packed around you pushing and shoving, you can't. While a situation like that is rare in Oblivion, the principle is the same.

 

 

 

 

 

And, anyway, why would you want to have a shield out while in hand to hand combat? It would be awkward. Oh, Vagrant0, why did you delete everything in the quote in your post? Or was it a mistake?

[TheThirdRace]

First thing first,

 

I never wanted to use a shield while in hand to hand combat, I just said why not? I know it's a bit strange, but it's a possibility, if I was using a shield and had no weapon while a creature attack me, I assure you I would at least try to protect myself with the shield and then try to hit the beast with my free hand since I would never even try to put aside the only thing that protects me (the shield). Thus, it's just a realistic possibility, not a beautifull one, but a possibility.

 

Now for the current problem, I search trought the entire CS wiki and found that maybe global scripting would be an option since I want to alter shield on the entire game with the fewest modifications. I also found while navigating in the bottomless CS the CGWeaponScript which state like this:

 

/*****************************************************************

scn CGWeaponScript

 

; this script is used to detect when player equips weapons for CharGen tutorial

 

begin OnAdd player

set MQ01.weapon to 1

endif

 

end

 

begin OnEquip player

set MQ01.weaponEquip to 1

end

******************************************************************/

 

It seems to me that I could set the weapon and weaponEquip members of MQ01 to 1 to acheive a "fake" equiped weapon. Thus, this would clear the need of an invisible item. With the use of the global scripting, I think this could be the solution but first I need to know what object MQ01 references. Any idea?

 

The idea would be to execute a script whenever a npc equip/unequip a shield or equip/unequip a weapon to set this variable to the right value. I might need a global variable to put it all together but it seems it could work.

 

It seems I have some pieces of the puzzle but I can't get it all working at once. Anyone can help me with this one

[Vagrant0]

The MQ 1 reference is just used within the tutorial to display a tutorial message when the player has the weapon which the script is attached to equipped. Attaching it to something else would at best just make that message pop up again, at worst, do nothing. Only using the invisible weapon thing could you make it look like you have just a shield equipped. I believe this is just a part of the hard coded game mechanics, much like skills, equipment slots, and spell effects. If it can be changed, it can't be with the CS that is released. You could try setting a shield to use a different slot, like left ring, but I'm not sure what the result would be, and it would leave you with 1 less ring.

[cryocry]

First thing first,

 

I never wanted to use a shield while in hand to hand combat, I just said why not? I know it's a bit strange, but it's a possibility, if I was using a shield and had no weapon while a creature attack me, I assure you I would at least try to protect myself with the shield and then try to hit the beast with my free hand since I would never even try to put aside the only thing that protects me (the shield). Thus, it's just a realistic possibility, not a beautifull one, but a possibility.

 

Now for the current problem, I search trought the entire CS wiki and found that maybe global scripting would be an option since I want to alter shield on the entire game with the fewest modifications. I also found while navigating in the bottomless CS the CGWeaponScript which state like this:

 

/*****************************************************************

scn CGWeaponScript

 

; this script is used to detect when player equips weapons for CharGen tutorial

 

begin OnAdd player

set MQ01.weapon to 1

endif

 

end

 

begin OnEquip player

set MQ01.weaponEquip to 1

end

******************************************************************/

 

It seems to me that I could set the weapon and weaponEquip members of MQ01 to 1 to acheive a "fake" equiped weapon. Thus, this would clear the need of an invisible item. With the use of the global scripting, I think this could be the solution but first I need to know what object MQ01 references. Any idea?

 

The idea would be to execute a script whenever a npc equip/unequip a shield or equip/unequip a weapon to set this variable to the right value. I might need a global variable to put it all together but it seems it could work.

 

It seems I have some pieces of the puzzle but I can't get it all working at once. Anyone can help me with this one

 

 

 

 

 

Hmmm, now that you mention it, I do remember something. Someone killed me in the Arena, and I didn't save in a long time, so I cheated and resurrected my charactar. Although it was set to hand to hand combat as my weapon, my shield and weapon showed. That could help you as well.