19th/20th Century weapons items distribution issue

[aaaaaaf]

Hello,

 

I am experiencing a somewhat troubling matter regarding 19th and 20th Century Weapons.

I currently have 25k+ 5.56mm ammo, while the second biggest amount of ammo is in the 3k range (7.62mm tokarev).

From the readme, 5.56mm starts appearing at level 12, 7.62 at level 14 and .50bmg at level 18.

However, I'm level 32 and I rarely see 7.62mm ammo (compared to 5.56mm, which I find for sure at every encounter against human foes (well, not that certain for Enclave people though))...and .50BMG, I only have 136 bullets or so.

Moreover, I have seen 4 .50bmg weapons in all my playtime, and 3 of them were equipped by scavengers (the 4th was found in a cabinet in the Yao Guai Den, along with 30+ other weapons...). It kind of saddens me to have to resort to killing scavengers in order to acquire a precious .50 cal weapon (I'm a messiah).

 

Aside from MTUI and Fallout 3 Re-animated, here is the whole list of mods I am using :

http://yfrog.com/08sanstitremrj

I also use the level workaround and the skills workaround mods, but I installed them soon before hitting level 30, and my problems were at that time already existing.

 

In the related thread, roguim told me there may be a conflict with one of my mods and suggested to create a merged patch with FO3Edit.

I did so and found multiple conflicts with MMM v5. However 20th CW was always the "winning" mod over MMM and although I'm far from being an expert, it didn't look like the conflicts were affecting the ammo/weapon distribution.

Link to my merged patch if that could be of any use : http://www.mediafire.com/?lj6lccdwbg5wz24 (the embedded uploader didn't work...)

 

If any of you had a solution for my issue, I'd be very much happy. Thanks in advance

 

Here is the original discussion if you are interested

 

 

Hello' date='

 

I've been using that mod for quite a while already and without a doubt, it's one of the main elements that still make me play Fallout 3.

However, I am getting bored. I'm getting bored of TDP1-UA, I'm getting bored of AR-15, I'm getting bored of G41, I'm getting bored of ALL 5.56mm caliber weapons.

 

As a matter of fact, I have 25k+ 5.56mm ammo, while the second biggest amount of ammo is in the 5k+ range (7.62mm).

From the readme, 5.56mm starts appearing at level 12, 7.62 at level 14 and .50bmg at level 18.

However, I'm level 32 and I rarely see 7.62mm ammo (compared to 5.56mm, which I find for sure at every encounter against human foes (well, not that certain for Enclave people though))...and .50BMG, I only have 60 bullets or so.

Moreover, I have seen 4 .50bmg weapons in all my playtime, and 3 of them were equipped by scavengers (the 4th was found in a cabinet in the Yao Guai Den, along with 30+ other weapons...). It kind of saddens me to have to resort to killing scavengers in order to acquire a precious .50 cal weapon (I'm a messiah).

 

So...can .50bmg weapons be found on evil people such as Talon folks, raiders or muties?

SAnother question is : is it normal that 5.56mm weapons (and hence, ammo) are THAT abundant compared to other calibers (I have from 60 to 7k ammo, most of them being in the 600s and below 1k)? I understand the USA use the 5.56mm for their weaponry, but I didn't expect it to affect game "balance" that badly.

If I start using, say an AK-47, will the enemies I encounter also start using 7.62mm weapons?

 

I do not wish to use that chest to grab 50k ammo for each caliber as I intend to keep my character clean of any "cheat".

I also use a whole lotta mods along with this one, but the one that may interfere with 19th/20th CW is MMM v5, the others affect other parts of the game (not game balance/enemies/npcs or whatever)

 

Thanks in advance

 

TL;DR : Just read the last 2 paragraphs[/quote']

 

@aaaaaaf

Indeed the 5.56 mm are one of most common ammunition but you should have found more of the others' date=' for example it's pretty common for me found Super mutants with AK type weapons ( 47 and 74 the more common).

About the .50 bmg talons are your guys ( specially in the fort Banister ,have also plenty of .303 British and the 5.28 X 78, and near Arlington library

Raiders have more common weapons but i found with 9.18 parabelum and some tokarev ammo.

I thing that your problem is a n conflict with your mod that allows you go above level 30 ( as you said your char are in level 32) this could conflicting with the 20th CWM leveled list.

 

So try to create a merged patch with fo3edit try to go to the mods thread and search if other people have the same problem of yours.

 

and a workaround way is download eXcalibr Ammunition shop,it's add an vendor/smith in megaton that can create neat weapon and sells all calibr ammunition regardless of the char level.[/quote']

 

@roguim

Nope it's definitely not that level workaround mod as I installed it when I was about to hit level 30 and at that time' date=' the current ammo distribution was already existing. I do have a dozen AK but it's just a drop in the ocean compared to the hundred 5.56mm weapons I keep.

As for Talon guys, they suck : I've stormed Bannister already some time ago and they mostly held 5.56mm weaps. I've also raided several forts (with plenty of raiders) and the results were the same.

 

As I'm currently in-game, I can provide you the exact amount of ammo I have (for those you mentionned) :

5.56 : 25152

7.62x25 tokarev : 3184

7.62x39 : 1480

7.62x51 : 824

7.62x54 : 2091

.50bmg : 136

.303 : 139

5.7x28 : 968

 

As for that excalibr ammo shop, I've heard about it but I'm not interested as I do not buy/sell anything (except for my house) : I only scavenge, so as to add some spice to my game.

 

Full list of my mods :

- 20th CW (obviously)

- calibr

- FOMM

- broken steel/the pitt/mothership zeta

- MMM v5

- dimonized races

- fellout

- fallout street lights

- auto aim fix

- level up workaround (installed just before hitting level 30)

- max level workaround (installed just before hitting level 30)

- wasteland mastery (installed just before hitting level 30)

- magic pip light (to increase the pipboy's light radius)

- mighty mouse

- MTUI

- night vision goggles

- overhead 3P camera

- VATS MCE

- fallout re-animated [/quote']

 

[ultskeletor]

...I am experiencing a somewhat troubling matter regarding 19th and 20th Century Weapons.

I currently have 25k+ 5.56mm ammo, while the second biggest amount of ammo is in the 3k range (7.62mm tokarev)....

 

It's been a while since I've looked closely at the 20th Century Weapons internals, but I might be able to shed a little light on this. I can't say for sure whether you've run into a bug of some kind, especially with regards to weapon distribution, but I think it's unlikely. Overall, 5.56x45mm assault rifles are a full 50% of all assault rifles. By probability, the majority of all assault rifles you come across will be 5.56mm. 5.56mm has a good chunk of the machineguns as well (closer to 30% or so.) This is all important because, most, if not all, of those assault rifles have an ammo capacity of 30 rounds and net you around 50 5.56mm rounds every time you come across one (on average.) So not only are 5.56mm weapons incredibly common (numbers-wise exceeded only by shotguns and 9x19mm weapons, if I remember correctly) but most of them also come with a lot of ammunition. On top of that, 5.56x45mm ammunition is from vanilla Fallout 3, as are the Assault Rifle and the Chinese Assault rifle that use it. You are also getting all the ammo from those and all that placed ammo from the Fallout 3 game world. That's contributing to your accrued ammo disparity.

 

I'm not sure there's a convenient fix for you. 20th Century Weapons is only scaled up to level 20, so you aren't going to be seeing more variety after that or anything. If too much ammo is a problem, or if you want a challenge, you could install FWE and use my Ammunition Rarity compatibility patch (here. My Realistic Ammo Weight patch is also usable, but the non-realistic weight version needs some minor updates for the new version of FWE.) If you PM me an email address, I have a couple of other patches that might help. You could also try an ammunition crafting mod to turn some of that excess ammo of one type into another type (there are several such mods, and FWE has ammo crafting built-in now, though I haven't used it yet.)

 

Other than those options, you could open up 20th Century Weapons and start making your own changes (that's exactly how I first got into modding.) All of the mod's content is contained in 20th Century Weapons.esm. That file, loaded by itself, will have no effect on Fallout 3. All of the changes, which get the items spawning on NPCs and in containers, are located in the various plugin ESPs. It's pretty easy to follow, and you can ask on the forums you have questions. You can ask me if you have more specific questions on 20th Century Weapons, though I'm not the mod's author.

 

...Moreover, I have seen 4 .50bmg weapons in all my playtime, and 3 of them were equipped by scavengers (the 4th was found in a cabinet in the Yao Guai Den, along with 30+ other weapons...). It kind of saddens me to have to resort to killing scavengers in order to acquire a precious .50 cal weapon (I'm a messiah)....

 

Try Companion Share and Recruit. If you have at least 40 in Speech, take the perk, and pass a Speech check, you can ask friendly NPCs if you can "borrow" something. It's essentially a merchant window, but the NPC unequips their gear, so you have a chance at buying their weapon and ammo.

 

...Aside from MTUI and Fallout 3 Re-animated, here is the whole list of mods I am using :

http://yfrog.com/08sanstitremrj...

 

FYI, Fellout, as a weather mod, goes at the bottom of your load order (but before your merged patch.) You can get a better output of your load order by, in the Fallout Mod Manager, clicking Load Order at the top, then Export.

 

...In the related thread, roguim told me there may be a conflict with one of my mods and suggested to create a merged patch with FO3Edit.

I did so...

 

Make sure you remove your old merged patch and generate a new one whenever you change your mod loadout. That's probably not connected with your problem. It's just a good practice.

[aaaaaaf]

First of all, thanks for your reply

 

If too much ammo is a problem, or if you want a challenge, you could install FWE and use my Ammunition Rarity compatibility patch

 

Having too much ammo doesn't bother me, however having too much of one ammo compared to others is (I have more than 8 times the amount of 7.62 tokarev rounds!)

As I told roguim, it wouldn't be much of a problem if I bought/traded/crafted ammo, but I like to not buy/sell anything and get all my stuff (or 99% of it) by scavenging.

 

Try Companion Share and Recruit. If you have at least 40 in Speech, take the perk, and pass a Speech check, you can ask friendly NPCs if you can "borrow" something. It's essentially a merchant window, but the NPC unequips their gear, so you have a chance at buying their weapon and ammo.

 

What I meant is the only time I can find a .50 bmg weapon (the most powerful weapons in-game) are on scavengers. No raiders, no enclave, no talon, no one. Or actually, I'm just raiding the Pitt and I've seen 2 of the Pitt raiders (with specific names, not generic raiders) wield .50cal weaps (and they will die soon).

The current problem with the .50cal thingie is that I never see ammo/weaps on evil people in random encounters.

 

FYI, Fellout, as a weather mod, goes at the bottom of your load order (but before your merged patch.) You can get a better output of your load order by, in the Fallout Mod Manager, clicking Load Order at the top, then Export.

 

I don't know why but I applied some changes but FOMM modified my order for some mods. As long as it works, I don't really mind.

[X] Fallout3.esm
[X] StreetLights.esm
[X] StreetLights - Wasteland.esp
[X] ThePitt.esm
[X] BrokenSteel.esm
[X] MaxLevelWorkaround-HP-BS.esp
[X] Zeta.esm
[X] CUSTOM RACES.esp
[X] DIM CUSTOM RACES V2.esp
[X] Mart's Mutant Mod.esm
[X] CALIBR.esm
[X] CALIBRxMerchant.esp
[X] 20th Century Weapons.esm
[X] Mart's Mutant Mod.esp
[X] Fellout-Full.esp
[X] Fellout-BrokenSteel.esp
[X] VATS - MCE.esp
[X] Auto Aim Fix v1.1.esp
[X] Overhead3PCamera.esp
[X] Magic Pip-Light (50 Brightness).esp
[X] nightvisiongogglesft.esp
[X] Mighty Mouse.esp
[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - Increased Spawns.esp
[X] 20th Century v5 ALIVE (Vendor).esp
[X] 20th Century v5 ALIVE (Containers).esp
[X] 20th Century v5 ALIVE (NPC_Settler).esp
[X] 20th Century v5 ALIVE (Vault 101).esp
[X] 20th Century v5 ALIVE (RivetCity).esp
[X] 20th Century v5 ALIVE (Raider).esp
[X] 20th Century v5 ALIVE (Slaver).esp
[X] 20th Century v5 ALIVE (Chinese Ghoul).esp
[X] 20th Century v5 ALIVE (SuperMutant).esp
[X] 20th Century v5 ALIVE (Talon_Regulator).esp
[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - Hunting & Looting.esp
[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - Natural Selection.esp
[X] 20th Century v5 ALIVE (Brotherhood_Outcast).esp
[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - Tougher Traders.esp
[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC The Pitt.esp
[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Broken Steel.esp
[X] Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Zeta.esp
[X] WastelandMastery.esp
[X] DK_BulletTime.esp
[ ] HairPack.esm
[ ] hair_add_npc.esp
[ ] 20th Century v5 ALIVE (TEST Container).esp
[ ] Mart's Mutant Mod - Increased Increased Spawns.esp
[ ] Mart's Mutant Mod - Feral Ghoul Rampage.esp
[ ] Mart's Mutant Mod - Zones Respawn.esp
[ ] Mart's Mutant Mod - Reduced Wasteland Spawns.esp
[ ] Mart's Mutant Mod - No DLC Increased Spawns.esp
[ ] Mart's Mutant Mod - No Size Scaling.esp
[ ] Mart's Mutant Mod - No Corpse Flies.esp
[ ] Mart's Mutant Mod - No Ghoul Raise.esp
[ ] Mart's Mutant Mod - No Geckos.esp
[ ] Mart's Mutant Mod - No Wanamingos.esp
[ ] Mart's Mutant Mod - No Floaters.esp
[ ] Mart's Mutant Mod - No Skeleton Decay.esp
[ ] Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Anchorage.esp
[ ] Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Point Lookout.esp
[ ] vmce uninstall.esp

 

Make sure you remove your old merged patch and generate a new one whenever you change your mod loadout. That's probably not connected with your problem. It's just a good practice.

 

Errr actually, I do not use any merged patch. I just use FOMM to better sort my mods. Is it that crucial? What's the merged patch's point?

[ultskeletor]

What I meant is the only time I can find a .50 bmg weapon (the most powerful weapons in-game) are on scavengers. No raiders, no enclave, no talon, no one. ... Errr actually, I do not use any merged patch. I just use FOMM to better sort my mods. Is it that crucial? What's the merged patch's point?

 

That would probably be it, unless your 20th Century Weapons plugins for Raiders and such are corrupt. Your original post said you did create a merged patch. To be safe, you should be creating a merged patch whenever you are using mods. The merged patch process goes through your active mods and tries to combine changes made by multiple mods to a single given record, primarily leveled lists and form lists. Without a merged patch, only the last mod that, say, edits the ammo types that can spawn in containers will apply. A quick look inside 20th Century's files reveals that raiders should definitely be able to spawn with any of the .50 BMG rifles.

 

Create a merged patch in FO3Edit, make sure it's last in your load order, and make sure it's active. The changes probably won't affect anything that has already spawned, so you'll probably want to wait in the player's house for 7 days or however long the respawn timer is. You might want to use MMM's Zones Respawn plugin, too. If you do, make sure you either make a new merged patch after adding it, or hold off on creating a merged patch until after you've activated it.

[aaaaaaf]

Well, I did create a merged patch right before creating this thread as I thought it could help show you the conflicts but I did not use it. Thanks for the explanations, I will start using one now.

I will update this thread to report the results, thanks a lot

[aaaaaaf]

Ok, so I've used the merged patch and slain 15+ people (raiders, muties and talon). Overall I mostly got puny pistols, multiple shotguns, a few missile launchers and only one 7.62 weapon (yet another RPK-74, I got tons of it).

So actually, nothing changed unfortunately...

[ultskeletor]

Ok, so I've used the merged patch and slain 15+ people (raiders, muties and talon). Overall I mostly got puny pistols, multiple shotguns, a few missile launchers and only one 7.62 weapon (yet another RPK-74, I got tons of it).

So actually, nothing changed unfortunately...

After Waiting in the player's house for at least 7 straight days (or whatever the standard respawn time is?) Before, you weren't using the Zones Respawn plugin for MMM, so some places may not respawn at all. Do your testing by going somewhere you've never been before. I think Fallout 3 locks areas to your level the first time you visit them, so revisiting a place you've already been probably won't give you an accurate distribution of weapons compared to your current level.

 

It's kind of a pain in the ass if you want to do it, but when I'm testing weapon distribution, I save, turn on god mode ('tgm',) and enter a location I've never explored. Every time I come across an enemy, I open the console, click the enemy to make it the target, get the enemy's level ('getlevel' I think,) and the equipment with which it spawned ('showinventory',) and kill it ('kill'.) I record all the data and after 10 or so runs of the same exact place, I analyze the data for problems.

 

After level 18 or so you aren't going to see any new weapons anyway. If Waiting didn't help, I'd say do your testing on a new playthrough. Super mutants are somewhat flawed for testing general weapon distribution, because they cannot use one-handed firearms, so they are set up not to spawn with them. Otherwise, you can PM me an email address and I can send you some patches I've put together.

[aaaaaaf]

Double post sorry, please delete this one.

[aaaaaaf]

Sorry for the long wait, I was quite busy.

 

First of all, I do not have the Zones respawn plugin so I'm testing everything outdoors.

So, I slept for 4 days straight (if I recall right, 3 days is the time it takes to reset cells) and then went to Wheaton Armory (which I first visited when I was in the 20s already) where I defeated a dozen or so raiders along with a few enclave guys. Most of the raiders were equipped with M2 carbine stockless, which I commonly see.

I then travelled to the raiders' den near Vault 106 where I yet defeated another ten raiders, equipped with low level weapons (assault rifle, M72 law, several pistols and one or two WWII-era weapons)

[ultskeletor]

Sorry for the long wait, I was quite busy.

 

First of all, I do not have the Zones respawn plugin so I'm testing everything outdoors.

So, I slept for 4 days straight (if I recall right, 3 days is the time it takes to reset cells) and then went to Wheaton Armory (which I first visited when I was in the 20s already) where I defeated a dozen or so raiders along with a few enclave guys. Most of the raiders were equipped with M2 carbine stockless, which I commonly see.

I then travelled to the raiders' den near Vault 106 where I yet defeated another ten raiders, equipped with low level weapons (assault rifle, M72 law, several pistols and one or two WWII-era weapons)

 

Certain kinds of raiders are more likely to spawn with certain kinds of weapons (pistols vs. machine guns, for example) and raiders themselves are more likely to spawn with certain kinds of weapons than other groups, like "settlers." If you think there is a problem with weapon distribution beyond straight chance, you need a significant amount of data (including the type of NPC, weapon, NPC level, and such.) Once you have that, you open up the 20th Century Weapons files in the GECK or FO3Edit and pretty much just work through generating NPC inventories by hand for comparison. I haven't used an unmodified 20th Century Weapons in a while now, so it's hard for me to say at a glance whether or not your distribution is normal. Friendly Scavengers do spawn with .50 BMG weapons very often, though. I distinctly remember that being true in "vanilla" 20th Century Weapons.