19th/20th Century weapons items distribution issue

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I just updated CW (I downloaded it a few days only before the june update came out) and unfortunately, after going to Wheaton Armory again (raiders) then to a comsat station (raiders again inside) I had discovered (but not entered) on the way to the Pitt (so after I hit level 30), and then stumbled upon Outcasts + Enclave + Talon, I only noticed a PSG1, the rest of the weapons being low-grade weapons. So overall, nothing changed at all.

 

As for modifying CW itself using FO3Edit, why not, I took a look and found things that may look like what I want (changing weapons to a specific one), but 2 problems arise :

- as stated above, I saw for example a submachine gun entry that could be replaced by a G41 silenced scoped entry (I didn't see the AS50 or the M82 Barrett though). However, this would only spawn a specific weapon instead of a range of weapons.

- as guessed from the above point, I suck at modifying things, especially things made by other people. I just took a look at a random entry that contained the weapon word. There are dozens upon dozens of entries in the raiders/talons/whatever sections and I do not know which ones are to be modified

 

On a side note, I also took a look at what the merged patch was doing and the result is quite surprising : it barely does anything at all, or the modifications don't show up on FO3Edit : http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/6016/sanstitrexf.jpg

 

EDIT : I just started a new game, set myself to lvl 20 and proceeded to run across the land, slaying every raider/mutie/talon. No .50 ammo/weap, one 7.62 (for AK, not counting those petty tokarev rounds), the rest being either pistols, shotguns or 5.56mm assault rifles (I saw multiple ones, probably the second if not most frequent type of loot I saw)

[ultskeletor]

I just updated CW (I downloaded it a few days only before the june update came out) and unfortunately, after going to Wheaton Armory again (raiders) then to a comsat station (raiders again inside) I had discovered (but not entered) on the way to the Pitt (so after I hit level 30), and then stumbled upon Outcasts + Enclave + Talon, I only noticed a PSG1, the rest of the weapons being low-grade weapons. So overall, nothing changed at all....

 

The game apparently takes your character's level into consideration when setting the level of an area, but it can still generate NPCs as low as level 1, regardless of what your character's level is. Even when I do my gear distribution testing at level 20, I still run into level 1 NPCs, though they are not as common as level 2 and 4 ones.

 

As for modifying CW itself using FO3Edit, why not, I took a look and found things that may look like what I want (changing weapons to a specific one), but 2 problems arise :

- as stated above, I saw for example a submachine gun entry that could be replaced by a G41 silenced scoped entry (I didn't see the AS50 or the M82 Barrett though). However, this would only spawn a specific weapon instead of a range of weapons.

- as guessed from the above point, I suck at modifying things, especially things made by other people. I just took a look at a random entry that contained the weapon word. There are dozens upon dozens of entries in the raiders/talons/whatever sections and I do not know which ones are to be modified

 

I'm testing out the Book of Earache mod at the moment, so I can't check out 20th Century Weapons right now, but load up FO3Edit with your regular mod loadout and expand the 20th Century Weapons plugin for Raiders. There will be a section for Leveled Lists under that, which you should also expand. On the left, you'll see what lists get modified by that plugin, and on the right, what the contents of those lists are (if you click on one of them.) You'll probably see entries named something like "20cent1h##Npc________" where the hash marks (#) are replaced with a number and the underscores (_) are replaced with a weapon family name (assault rifles are contained under something like Autoloading Rifle, I think.) You can then expand the 20th Century Weapons.ESM and check out the contents of whatever list it was you found, and you'll be able to see what can spawn from that list. You keep following the chain of lists and you'll eventually run into "WithAmmo20cent_____" lists, which will specify a particular weapon. I don't recommend changing this stuff without understanding how the network of lists functions, but once you do, you could lower the probability of 5.56mm weapons being spawned, for example.

 

On a side note, I also took a look at what the merged patch was doing and the result is quite surprising : it barely does anything at all, or the modifications don't show up on FO3Edit : http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/6016/sanstitrexf.jpg

 

That's normal. If you were using more mods that changed what can spawn, for example, you'd run into more problems without a merged patch.

 

EDIT : I just started a new game, set myself to lvl 20 and proceeded to run across the land, slaying every raider/mutie/talon. No .50 ammo/weap, one 7.62 (for AK, not counting those petty tokarev rounds), the rest being either pistols, shotguns or 5.56mm assault rifles (I saw multiple ones, probably the second if not most frequent type of loot I saw)

 

Keep in mind, under these circumstances, any time an assault rifle can spawn, it has about a 50% chance of being a 5.56mm assault rifle of some kind. 7.62x39mm has a comparatively low chance of spawning (there are only a few weapons that use that ammo type.) 5.56mm dominates just because there are so many weapons that use it. 7.62x25mm Tokarev probably has about as many weapons as 7.62x39 (I can't check at the moment,) but the probabilities are skewed for it because most of the 7.62x25 weapons are available in two different magazine capacities, doubling the number of weapon entries there (and thus, doubling the probability due to the way weapons are spawned in 20th Century Weapons, if I remember correctly.)

 

As I've said before, if you provide me with an email address, I can send you my patches, where, among other things, I've completely reworked weapon distribution. You can send me your email address in a private message through the forum, or, I think you can actually email me through the forum. I use FWE, though, and I've changed the weapon stats appropriately. If you don't use FWE, you may find the weapons do much more damage than you're used to (though you can edit those yourself, if you want.)

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Here is the list of the conflicts encountered :

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/3774/sanstitrehfw.jpg

 

As you can see, the "leveled item" sections have no conflicts at all so weapons should appear based on my level. Most of the conflicts are in the NPC sections, which I believe, affect specific NPCs and not generic ones.

Moreover, there are 2 sources to the conflicts. One is due to the "SCRI - script" line : MMM's cript is disabled by 20th CW ALIVE's. But 20th CW's SCRI script's line is blank

Example : http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/8406/sanstitreiu.jpg

This applies to almost all "red lined" entries (all Talons and all Chinese ghouls...)

 

The other one is about the "ABCS - configuration", and especially the "Template flags" and "Use script"

http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/4097/sanstitreyjf.jpg

Again, the items with which these NPCs spawn with's lines do not seem to be affected.

 

Could my issue come from a bad load order?

 

Regarding your patches, the only trouble I'm having with them is that although the revamped item distribution sounds cool, it may not address exactly what I want (as you designed them for yourself, way before my issue was known to you) and really, I find the current weapons already strong enough (save for the melee ones, but I hardly use them anyway).

If I become desperate (which will be happening very soon), I'll give it a try although I do not use FWE

[ultskeletor]

...Moreover, there are 2 sources to the conflicts. One is due to the "SCRI - script" line : MMM's cript is disabled by 20th CW ALIVE's. But 20th CW's SCRI script's line is blank... Could my issue come from a bad load order?

 

Those are from the load order, yes. 20th Century's ESPs should go before MMM's ESPs. I'm just guessing, but those scripts probably have something to do with MMM's stat randomization when the NPC spawns.

 

Regarding your patches, the only trouble I'm having with them is that although the revamped item distribution sounds cool, it may not address exactly what I want (as you designed them for yourself, way before my issue was known to you) and really, I find the current weapons already strong enough (save for the melee ones, but I hardly use them anyway).

If I become desperate (which will be happening very soon), I'll give it a try although I do not use FWE

 

I can't recommend FWE enough, especially if you want challenging yet highly configurable gameplay. Scavenging is much more important than in vanilla FO3.

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Well, I've been so far in the game that I would have some regrets starting from scratch again. However, if there's a mod allowing to re-scale the already explored areas to my current level (for example, if I discovered Germantown Police Station at level 3 and went back again at level 25, the respawned mobs would be scaled to my level), I'd probably start again.

FWE, well, why not but I like MMM's optional plugins (increased spawns and such).

 

I digress though, as my problem is still existing and gradually exasperating me. I did try to fiddle with the load order but nothing good came out of it.

[ultskeletor]

Well, I've been so far in the game that I would have some regrets starting from scratch again. However, if there's a mod allowing to re-scale the already explored areas to my current level (for example, if I discovered Germantown Police Station at level 3 and went back again at level 25, the respawned mobs would be scaled to my level), I'd probably start again.

 

I've heard some chatter that this is possible by setting some value assigned to a location to "None" instead of whatever it normally is. Apparently, the Wasteland is set up this way, which is supposed to cause it to always spawn enemies up to your appropriate level. I don't know of a mod that does this, though. I only read it in passing here, at the Fallout 3 Underground forum, or on the official Bethsoft forum. I don't remember where.

 

FWE, well, why not but I like MMM's optional plugins (increased spawns and such).

 

MMM is fully compatible with FWE. With older versions, you would not use most of the MMM plugin ESPs, because FWE would detect MMM and allow you to configure all that stuff in-game from within the Support Mods section of the FWE Control Panel. Now, MMM has its own in-game configuration menu. I don't use any of the plugins, using instead only what is available in the in-game configuration menu (which includes Increased Spawns but not something like Hunting and Looting, I don't think.) You might want to ask someone else about if any plugins should or should not be combined with this or that.

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AH! Now we're talking. I thought for sure FWE and MMM being heavy gameplay-modifying mods, they wouldn't be compatible with each other.

However, as my current issue(s) lie(s) within 20th CW and MMM, wouldn't I have the same problem(s) if I were to use MMM + FWE?

 

Also, I have enabled Hunting and Looting from the beginning but honestly, I have only seen one or two raiders take up some stuff from a nearby comrade I just shot. As for hunting...I never saw a single NPC manage to do it (gotta love deathclaw matriarchs and wanamingos)

 

Apparently, the Wasteland is set up this way, which is supposed to cause it to always spawn enemies up to your appropriate level.

 

This is what I want. I mean, from what I understood in your previous post (before your last one, that is), when I discover a location at level 3, enemies will be level 3 or so. When I come back 1 month later at level 20, enemies will still be at level 3. What I desire is that when I come back at level 20, enemies will be upgraded to level 20.

Edit : yep, what I want is not what is in-game by default. Google didn't help me much finding a workaround for this though

http://planetfallout.gamespy.com/wiki/Does_Fallout_3_Have_Level_Scaling_Like_Oblivion%3F

[ultskeletor]

AH! Now we're talking. I thought for sure FWE and MMM being heavy gameplay-modifying mods, they wouldn't be compatible with each other.

However, as my current issue(s) lie(s) within 20th CW and MMM, wouldn't I have the same problem(s) if I were to use MMM + FWE?

 

FWE is specifically designed to work well with MMM. 20th Century Weapons works with them both without errors, but 20th Century Weapons' weapon attributes are not scaled properly for use with FWE, hence my patches.

 

This is what I want. I mean, from what I understood in your previous post (before your last one, that is), when I discover a location at level 3, enemies will be level 3 or so. When I come back 1 month later at level 20, enemies will still be at level 3. What I desire is that when I come back at level 20, enemies will be upgraded to level 20.

Edit : yep, what I want is not what is in-game by default. Google didn't help me much finding a workaround for this though

http://planetfallout.gamespy.com/wiki/Does_Fallout_3_Have_Level_Scaling_Like_Oblivion%3F

 

I'm not sure where I read it, but that is supposedly how the Wasteland is set up. Other locations, however, become locked to the level at which you first visited them. There is supposed to be a way to change this to behave more like the Wasteland, though. I'll look through my browser history to see if I can find that thread again.

 

Edit: I can't find it, but I remember that this was a function of the Encounter Zone attribute. You could look into that. I don't remember the specifics, but by setting up the Encounter Zone attribute for locations similarly to the Wasteland, one could turn off the "level locking" behavior, or something like that.

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FWE is specifically designed to work well with MMM. 20th Century Weapons works with them both without errors, but 20th Century Weapons' weapon attributes are not scaled properly for use with FWE, hence my patches.

 

Well, my personnal experience tells me 20th CW doesn't work 100% with MMM for me :/

 

I'm not sure where I read it, but that is supposedly how the Wasteland is set up. Other locations, however, become locked to the level at which you first visited them. There is supposed to be a way to change this to behave more like the Wasteland, though

 

I don't comprehend, do you mean that outdoors locations aren't level locked? If I visit Wheaton Armory, will raiders be scaled to my level when I first discover it at level 3 (though they will probably be level 5 as there's certainly a minimum level stuff), and scaled again when I come back at level 20?

From what you said, only indoors locations are level locked forever once entered while outdoors locations do not have any level lock restriction whatsoever.

On the other side, the GECK wiki's page doesn't differentiate outdoors locations from indoors'.

I will look into that Encounter Zone stuff for sure though, when I have enough time to spend to dig into this huge load of data :/

[ultskeletor]

I don't comprehend, do you mean that outdoors locations aren't level locked? If I visit Wheaton Armory, will raiders be scaled to my level when I first discover it at level 3 (though they will probably be level 5 as there's certainly a minimum level stuff), and scaled again when I come back at level 20?

From what you said, only indoors locations are level locked forever once entered while outdoors locations do not have any level lock restriction whatsoever.

On the other side, the GECK wiki's page doesn't differentiate outdoors locations from indoors'.

I will look into that Encounter Zone stuff for sure though, when I have enough time to spend to dig into this huge load of data :/

 

Supposedly, the general areas of the Wasteland do not get locked to your level; they should always be able to spawn enemies up to your current level. I don't know if that applies to "named" outdoor areas like the outdoor area around Wheaton Armory. I also don't know how it applies to places like Falls Church or D.C., which while both are "outdoors" neither is part of the general Wasteland. It has something to do with the specifics of the Encounter Zone assigned to a location, not merely the fact that a location is indoors or outdoors.