A Murderous Thief

[MidbossVyers]

If you have the gold to pay for all the blood prices, is it feasible to kill your way through the Thieves' Guild quests?

[Ferryt]

To my knowledge there's no limit on how many people you can kill during the Thieves Guild quest line without getting kicked out of the Thieves Guild -- as long as you don't actually kill a member of the Thieves Guild while you're doing it and as long as you pay the penalty for killing people associated with the heists in some way. Keep in mind, though, that there are a lot of Thieves Guild members in places where you'd never expect them to be and they don't just walk up to you and say "Hi! I'm a member of the Thieves Guild. Don't kill me. Hint -- there's one in Castle Anvil, as just one example, and you'd never suspect it until you get introduced."

 

Also remember that many NPCs in this game are essential to completion of other quests or to acquire things or services that you might want later on. Just going on a murdering rampage could break many quests in ways that you might not be able to fix, even with the console. Why don't you just stay your bloodlust until you finish with the Thieves Guild and then get inducted into the Dark Brotherhood?

[MidbossVyers]

Because I already finished the DB quests; I even wanted to have the DB "Leap Forward Greatly" (get that reference; for further clues, I wanted the Dark Brotherhood to be reformed into the Assassins' Brotherhood of Darkness, and instead of the Night Mother as the leader, it would be Chairperson (chairman or chairwoman depending on the gender)) by killing the Night Mother, but unfortunately, you can't canonically do that, and I'm not sure if there are any mods for such a storyline direction. And I meant people who get in my way, not just random murders.

[Ferryt]

Gotcha ... mostly, anyway. One thing I don't get is your reference to "Leap Forward Greatly", though. That means nothing to me at all.

 

Frankly, I don't even like the idea that the Listener gets his orders from the Night Mother and passes them on to the Speaker, who assigns tasks, any more than I like the idea that you can actually rise in the ranks of ANY guild and take it over. This just smacks of "Monty Haul" style D&D gaming that young kids like so much. I'd love to see all the guild quests reworked, but I think the DB quest line is especially flawed in many respects. I knew that I was being misled. There were just too many inconsistencies showing up. The game, though, never gave me the option to do the "right" thing and report my suspicions to anyone with any authority in the guild. I'd like to see that changed. I'd like to see the mystical overtones removed from it. To me, the Dark Brotherhood needs to operate just like the Thieves Guild or the Fighters Guild.

 

Anyway, back to your issues. No, I don't think there's a single mod that does what you want. There are several mods that attempt to address the DB, including some that try to transform it or offer alternatives to it. I'm not really completely happy with any of them, myself. As for people "getting in your way", the Thieves Guild is about stealth and keeping a low profile. My approach to the entire Thieves Guild quest line is that I go in, "liberate" the target, and leave ... touching nothing else and leaving no trace (other than the missing item) that I was ever there. That's how its supposed to be done. If you can't, then you're either doing it wrong or you have a character who isn't suited to the Thieves Guild. In this respect the TG is a bit more challenging than the DB, which can actually be done (for most quests) by not worrying too much about stealth. It's a lot more "forgiving" of pure combat-oriented characters, where the TG pretty much requires you to be good at Sneak and Security, or have spells to accomplish the same things. I've done the TG quest line in every single one of my play throughs with this game and I've never had a reason to openly engage in combat with anybody. Location is important in the DB. Timing is a more important factor in the TG. If you case your target correctly, and exercise some patience, the only "weapon" you should ever have to draw on a TG quest is a lockpick.

 

This is just based upon my own personal playing style, of course, which is, in turn, based upon realistic role-playing. When I'm on a TG mission I'm a thief and I act like one. When I'm on a FG quest I pull out the old longsword and shield and hack away. When I'm on a MG quest I put on my thinking cap and concentrate upon using magic as much as I can to accomplish my goal. When I'm on a DB quest I (try to) lay aside some of my ethical misgivings about what my character is doing and don't hesitate to kill in cold blood using whatever means I have available. This means that the DB quests can be much more interesting from a pure role-playing perspective because I can rationalize combat, stealth, and magic use in any combination without sacrificing "immersion", which is important to me. I have no problem killing (non-quest-related) NPCs if they get in my way during a DB quest. In fact, I pretend to revel in the killing, sometimes -- just sometimes, since it depends upon my character. My last was simply a killing machine. There was no thought about the ethics, no joy in the killing, so that character tended to treat DB quests just like I treat TG quests. Get the job done with a minimum of effort and fuss and go collect my payment. Now, if you really want to kill those annoying NPCs on a TG quest, go ahead. Just remember that stolen items get confiscated if you get nabbed by the authorities and getting it all back isn't a necessary shoe-in, although I'm sure you'll get your quest-related items back. That's why I always stash stolen loot, rather than carrying it around with me.