Dark Brotherhood ending

[spinspider]

Is anyone else kind of disappointed that all you get to do after becoming the leader of the Brotherhood is run back and forth to a statue once a week... like I mean come on, they could have done a lot more than that. Like, why can't the new Listener go out and find new murderers to recruit into the Brotherhood? And why can't I try to do some to restore the crippled Black Hand? It would have been nice if I could promote Vicente or Ocheeva or someone to replace the Speakers that got killed... or if I could keep doing assassination contracts infinitely in my spare time.

[Ferryt]

One of my pet peeves with the way Bethesda decided to structure virtually all the main quest lines in Oblivion is that the emphasis was upon becoming the head honcho -- and then having absolutely nothing to do that is worth doing after that. I think the entire concept of working your way up from a rank noobie to the leader of an organization so rapidly (or even at all) is flawed from the very beginning, but that's a different matter, I suppose. Bethesda basically wants you to complete those guild quest lines that interest you and then go on to explore the world and experience all the little bits and pieces they left scattered around, and there are some very interesting ones, as well some that weren't well though-out, but that's all part of the Oblivion Experience.

 

Having an indefinite, open quest line for any of the guilds would have been a massive undertaking, requiring somehow generating new NPCs and new quest lines on the fly, automatically, and without human intervention. I don't even think it would be possible. On the other hand, I would have been delighted to just be able to rise to a high position within (not the head of) a guild, with more than just one or two missions between promotions, and then continue doing guild-related quests added by mods, either through official plug-ins or created by users, and that would have vastly increased the re-playability of this game, as well as adding realism and immersion to it. Understand, though, that Bethesda has a vested interest in people getting tired of playing Oblivion, so we'll all abandon it and rush head-long to buy Elder Scrolls V. :)

 

Now, some enterprising modder could probably modify all the guild quest lines to accomplish exactly what I've mentioned -- terminating the quest line with the final quest, but without promotion to the top position, and then begin releasing "quest modules" that keeps the player active in the guilds. Frankly, once I'm done with a guild I just don't look back. The paltry amount I get paid for vising the Night Mother isn't worth the time I have to spend in-game to do it, for instance, so why bother? Besides, every time I visit her I just want to banish her to the pits of Hell where she belongs after what I consider her own part in the treachery (I use "Whispered Warnings" so I don't have to murder my brothers and sisters in the Sanctuary, by the way).

 

Do you know how many times I've donned the Gray Cowl of Nocturnal? Once. I've had two characters complete the Thieves Guild quest line. How many times do you suppose I've altered the policy of the Fighters Guild after making the initial decision? Zero. Zip. Zilch. I think, in two characters which have completed the DB quest line, I've visited the Night Mother for instructions just three times. Mage Guild? What is there to do after you become Arch Mage, anyway? Modders have already supplied us with nicer abodes for mages than the Arch Mage's quarters, and why would I want to take an Apprentice with me anywhere, seeing that NPCs just get in the way whenever you're in combat, anyway? There are, simply put, no real benefits from completing any of the guild quest lines, except for loot and quest-related reward items that you can't get in other ways.

[Leakingroof]

Like, why can't the new Listener go out and find new murderers to recruit into the Brotherhood? And why can't I try to do some to restore the crippled Black Hand?

 

Try a Brotherhood Renewed mod.

[Ferryt]

Do you know if "Brotherhood Renewed" conflicts in any way with "Whispered Warning"?

[Leakingroof]

Do you know if "Brotherhood Renewed" conflicts in any way with "Whispered Warning"?

 

I think it is compatible.

[spinspider]

Hehe... first time I used Whispered Warning and finished the DB questline, the first thing that happened when I went back to the sanctuary was Arquen and Taelendril started fighting and trying to kill each other for some reason. :laugh:

[MidbossVyers]

That's why I, and by extension my character, have no real respect for the DB or its deities even though my character is now the Listener.

[Ferryt]

Hehe... first time I used Whispered Warning and finished the DB questline, the first thing that happened when I went back to the sanctuary was Arquen and Taelendril started fighting and trying to kill each other for some reason. :laugh:

 

That's odd ... or maybe not so odd. I've never noticed any fighting between Arquen and the other DB members. Arquen's Aggressiveness is set to 5 so she won't fight unless she's attacked, herself. Telaendril's Aggressiveness, on the other hand, is 20, so it's likely she started the confrontation. I've never been in the Sanctuary after finishing the DB quest line on a day when Telaendril was supposed to be there, though, so it could be this did happen, but I just didn't observe it. Does Whispered Warning set the residents of the Sanctuary to Essential status? I don't remember (or even remember if it's ever been mentioned).

 

The only real difference I can see is that Arquen, incomprehensibly, isn't a member of the "Dark Brotherhood Sanctuary Dwellers" faction, like all the others are, including Schemer, the rat. I'm not sure if the Dark Guardian is a member of that faction, but he obviously wasn't attacking Arquen, and he's all over the place, so I'm sure he would have come into contact with her. Of all the residents, only M'raaj-Dar doesn't have an aggressiveness of at least 15 (his is 5). It could be that residents automatically attack anyone within the Sanctuary who is not a member of the DBSD faction and that only Telaendril's wandering takes her within "contact" distance of Arquen. The next time you're in the Sanctuary, try pushing one of the other residents up close to Arquen and see what happens. If a fight starts then we probably know what's going on. Another test is to take a companion into the Sanctuary and see if that character is attacked (which would support this hypothesis). I'd do this, myself, but I'm not actively playing Oblivion right now and probably won't until I get my new computer (hopefully some time within the next month).

[MexicoWolf]

brotherhood renewed and whispered warning are compatible - i've tried.

 

and, ferryt, whispered warning does not add the essential status back to the spared cheydinhal brethren. if you want them essential again you'll have to do it manually - i do believe there's a command, though i've forgotten it.

[Ferryt]

"SetEssential <ID> 1" is the console command for that, MexicoWolf. Thanks. You verified my suspicion about this. I wonder if it was intentional, or just an oversight on the part of the modder, though? There's really no reason for them not to be essential. While I like Whispered Warning, I think it didn't go quite far enough. I would rather have had an additional "quest" after speaking with Ocheeva, to eliminate Arquen for her part in the murder of Lucien Lachance and then Ocheeva placed back in her proper position as the head of the Cheydinhal Sanctuary, at the very least, and with the additional murderer recruit to the Sanctuary simply never showing up. This would have restored things to business as usual -- a much more satisfactory ending to the DB quest line than either Bethesda or Whispered Warning gave us.