Mime Companion

[devinpatterson]

Oh and I thought we'd moved beyond this silly thread.

Really? How so, since your responding/contributing to it?

 

The reason why I say JoKelly understood.....

I can't comment on any private PMs, only on the posts publicly displayed on this thread.

 

I don't have a lot of time to write this answer but I'd just like to say that I honestly thought that you were just playing along with the intentionally stupid idea.

A mime isn't a stupid idea, the concept has merit, especially in a post apocalyptic world where one may be a mute for a variety of reasons. It's why I tried to help by suggesting no dialog, using Christine's gestures etc. I'v floated the idea for various street performers in several threads including mimes. I had planned a whole mod around street performers (some as possible companions) until kungfuBellyDancer disappeared and I lost what would have been the star of that mod.

 

If you'v spent any time on these forums you'll see that I try to help others achieve their mods or make mods for them. It's giving back to the community that's provided me a lot of play time. But I did feel there were better ways to approach the character, thus my posts.

 

I'm not too sure about the playing along parts since I gave you solid advice to improve the character and assets to use to speed up production of the mod.

 

That is, until you wrote your very confused post where it became clear to me that you genuinely didn't understand.

I think if you want an example of a confused thread, refer to your own post #6 where you defend your original concept (re: most companions being mute, the rope being a staple of quests, the fetch quest), then switch gears (in the same post) and claim intentionally butchering the lore to make it all a joke. But I'm curious, you'v claimed my post was confused......in what way?

 

And to defend one of my points, I'm saying that the original post was intentionally stupid,

Yep I won't disagree with you on that one, some aspects of your original post are indeed questionable, but easily enough addressed.

 

That's all I have time for. If you'd like to continue arguing about this thing that I'm getting bored of, then feel free. I'll probably check back once every few days and maybe take the time to write an answer.

I think that's going to be up to you brother, since you seem very invested in your claim. I'm just punching holes your statement that don't hold up or are in general nonsensical. Things like;

 

If it were just a stupid request I wouldn't have been able to pick it apart in so many ways

Another example is defending the original premises, and then switching gears halfway through the *same post* claiming it was a joke. etc.;

 

There are a ton of mods out there without voice acting. There are so many installed on my game that it feels like I'm surrounded by either mutes or mimes. That doesn't detract from the quality of the mod but it eventually it starts to break immersion.

&

It's a fetch quest. It's the most basic type of quest a modder can make. Go here, grab this item that I need and give it to me. It's a nice introduction for someone who's new to modding but that doesn't stop it from being overdone or, as it often is, out of place in a story. Why would he have dropped it there? Why is it suddenly surrounded by people who are so unreasonable that they'll shoot you on sight? Why does he need invisible rope so badly?

And then claiming it's all a bad joke because you butchered the lore so badly......mind you, all in the same post. I think some might say that's confused since your arguing for both sides of your claim (this post makes sense AND this *intentionally* doesn't make sense). Kind of like when you claimed a stupid request is harder to pick apart, when obviously the opposite is true.

 

So yeah, points you haven't addressed but rather chose not to reply to.

 

As I mentioned, I'm not particularly concerned if you did or didn't know about mimes, or other aspects of the thread like lore. It's just difficult to read your statements, like those above, and not comment on how fundamentally broken they are. I'm not really interested in whether the thread continues or doesn't, it's simply that if I see you post something that looks like BS, I'll call you on it. It's nothing personal, I don't know you from Adam, but I'd respond teh same way if it was someone I knew, posting some seriously fubar'd replies.

[JohnPascal]

Again, I'm short on time so I apologize if I can't type a full response. I say this so that you have an answer to why you think

 

So yeah, points you haven't addressed but rather chose not to reply to.

 

Because believe me, I'd love to answer all of the points you'e brought up but I simply don't have the time to. Okay, let's jump right in.

 

You believe that:

• I didn't understand what a mime was in my original post.
• My original post was serious.
• My post explaining the joke was my attempt at saving face for wanting a talking mime even though that would be entirely unbelievable and destroys the identifying characteristics of a mime.
• My later posts are nonsensical don't support my argument.

 

I just wanted to put that down in writing just so it's clear. If I missed something or misinterpreted the problems you have with this thread then please correct me.

 

 

Let me give you a look into my train of thought before writing this post. I had just watched a mod review and for the umpteenth time there were many characters with no voices and made the silly little joke to myself, "Wow, there are so many mimes in this mod!" (Original and funny, right? [sarcasm, in case you can't tell through text]) Compiling a short list of gripes I had with the modding community I decided that a good way to voice my concerns was in a satirical mod request. (Amazing idea that could never possibly backfire or be received negatively.) My main concern were elements of modding that broke immersion, which could be broken down into three pieces: lack of voice acting, elements of lore that are out of place/backstory that directly conflicts with the lore, and repetitive/uninspired quests that have nonsensical enemies. From there, a really bad joke was born which you took way too seriously and now we're here.

 

 

Really? How so, since your responding/contributing to it?

 

No, I thought that we had all moved on because we had accepted that it was, in fact, a joke instead of continuing to be skeptical. Although when I put it this way, I don't mind actually mind skepticism too much, which is why I keep responding. I'm doing my best to assuage your concerns that this post was serious. Unfortunately I'm having a hard time because no matter what I say, you still want more proof. On top of that you seem very aggressive about defending your claim that this isn't a joke but rather some elaborate ruse devised to defend myself from ridicule.

 

think that's going to be up to you brother, since you seem very invested in your claim. I'm just punching holes your statement that don't hold up or are in general nonsensical.

As I said above, I'd like to do my best to alleviate any skepticism you might have which is why I might seem invested.

 

 

I can't comment on any private PMs, only on the posts publicly displayed on this thread.

I took a screenshot but I can't figure out how to upload it here. I'm stil relatively new to this place. If somebody could explain to me how to do that I'd gladly post the image. I also sent him another message but I don't know how quickly he'll respond.

 

 

Here's what you said:

 

Kind of like when you claimed a stupid request is harder to pick apart, when obviously the opposite is true.

Here's what I think you're talking about:

 

If it were just a stupid request I wouldn't have been able to pick it apart in so many ways because I wouldn't have written it to be that way.

Where I'm very clearly saying. Something that is just a stupid request cannot be so easily picked apart and analyzed. I wrote the post to be intentionally stupid that way you can analyze it. Perhaps in the hopes that someone would find the idea of a talking mime charming or even comedic. It's not like there are commercials that even portray talking mimes for comedic effect. I can understand why this bit might confuse you (hence the confused posts that I mentioned) but I'd like to take responsibility for that. I could have easily written that statement that I just quoted more clearly.

 

 

I'm not too sure about the playing along parts since I gave you solid advice to improve the character and assets to use to speed up production of the mod.

 

This is exactly why I thought you were playing along with the joke. It seemed fitting that someone would try to give real assets to speed up the production of the mod for something that they don't want. I don't actually want another mute companion (unless someone decides to take the route that you suggested by playing off of their inablitiy to talk and if said modder makes it believable) so I assumed that you knew I was joking, implying that the assets you provided were simply there to play along with it. For that matter, why would you even question whether or not I thought you were playing along if you don't believe that I was joking in the first place? If you believed that I was serious the whole time, then the logical conclusion is that I can't have thought that you were playing along with a joke that doesn't exist and you shouldn't have even addressed that.

 

Another thing I'd like to note:

 

Don't double down on the stupid, just let it go.

From post #7

 

It's when you try to use some seriously fubar'd logic to "prove" it was satirical that the post gets annoying. That's why I said let it go, instead of doubling down and trying to "prove" your point via nonsensical logic.

From post #9

 

That you continually tell me to "let it go" implies that you are already firm in your belief that my post was not satire and that I've already lost. If you really believe that then there's no point in listening to anything I say because in your mind you're already right.That is one of the most basic forms of bad argumentation; you drew a conclusion before finding evidence and questioning the author as to why these pieces are inconguous. If you're going to argue using logic, then don't use flawed reasoning to establish your arguments. Furthermore, don't use twists of logic like the one I pointed out above wherein you made an argument based off of an incorrect reading of my post. I never wrote that a stupid request is harder to pick apart, as I detailed earlier. Next time, read more carefully before calling me out on my supposed BS.

 

That's all for today, unfortunately. I'll check back tomorrow if you have more to say.

[devinpatterson]

I'm just going to touch on a few points, then circle back around in a later post for the rest.

 

I just wanted to put that down in writing just so it's clear. If I missed something or misinterpreted the problems you have with this thread then please correct me.

I believe what you detailed is one *possibility* among *others*.

 

No, I thought that we had all moved on because we had accepted that it was, in fact, a joke instead of continuing to be skeptical.

Why would you believe that since I gave no indication of it, and the posts continued without interruption.

 

Unfortunately I'm having a hard time because no matter what I say, you still want more proof.

Actually you haven't provided *any* proof much less "more proof". You've stated a claim, you need to provide proof. A argument has to have at least those two elements.

 

I took a screenshot but I can't figure out how to upload it here. I'm stil relatively new to this place. If somebody could explain to me how to do that I'd gladly post the image. I also sent him another message but I don't know how quickly he'll respond.

There are *so* many places you can upload a graphics file for free. 100's, 1000s, more? There are plenty. Now if you can show that you had stated it was a joke *before* your 2nd post that would add credence to your claim. We know you changed tact by your second post (although you continued to defend parts/elements of your original post). But you would also need some way to validate it, since anyone with a modicum of skill in gimp or photoshop can produce a counterfeit in a few minutes.

 

If it were just a stupid request I wouldn't have been able to pick it apart in so many ways because I wouldn't have written it to be that way.

&

Something that is just a stupid request cannot be so easily picked apart and analyzed.

"stupid - lacking or marked by lack of intellectual acuity". Do you understand why a stupid request (one that is not intellectually rigorous) *is* easier to pick apart? Do you understand why your statement is incorrect?

 

That you continually tell me to "let it go" implies that you are already firm in your belief that my post was not satire and that I've already lost. If you really believe that then there's no point in listening to anything I say because in your mind you're already right.That is one of the most basic forms of bad argumentation; you drew a conclusion before finding evidence and questioning the author as to why these pieces are inconguous. If you're going to argue using logic, then don't use flawed reasoning to establish your arguments.

Incorrect, I believe that is a possibility, but not the only possibility. When I state, "let it go" it's because my words, works and actions stand on their own. If you don't believe me then I'm not overly concerned one way or the other, however that doesn't seem to be the case with your claim.

 

Furthermore, don't use twists of logic like the one I pointed out above wherein you made an argument based off of an incorrect reading of my post. I never wrote that a stupid request is harder to pick apart, as I detailed earlier.

A direct quote;

If it were just a stupid request I wouldn't have been able to pick it apart in so many ways

Your own words. Spoiler alert; a stupid request is easier to pick apart......virtually by definition.

 

Next time, read more carefully before calling me out on my supposed BS.

I hope that you appreciate the hypocrisy of your statement. You chide me for already making up my mind;

That you continually tell me to "let it go" implies that you are already firm in your belief

A pretty obvious failure in your leap of logic, as I explained above, then claim

That is one of the most basic forms of bad argumentation; you drew a conclusion before finding evidence

And then do *exactly* that, drawing a conclusion before finding evidence. Hilarious, really.

[JohnPascal]

I'm going to ignore most of the post above (but for good reason! Wait, stop writing how hypocritical I am!) because last night while I was losing track of time playing way too much fallout I came to an important realization. This plays into what you said about not having evidence because the private message was sent roughly two hours after I explained the joke but before you responded. It also renders most of our previous posts irrelevant which is why I'm choosing to ignore most everything that's already been said.

 

WARNING! THIS EXPLANATION WILL PROBABLY LEAVE BOTH OF US UNSATISFIED!

 

As we've now both mentioned, there isn't any evidence to suggest that I wrote it comedically (and that's because I don't shout out to the world what my plans are before doing something. What is this? The 80s? Am I about to perform my super special ultimate attack?) which means that I can't prove that I did. Unfortunately (for both of us, really) being unable to prove that it was written as a joke doesn't imply that it was written as something else. (There would need to be a proof demonstrating that it was written as a serious post.) It could have been written as anything but there's no way of proving it, the post could've been originally written as a romantic comedy for all anybody reading this knows. In other words, because I have no written documentation, and you don't have any either (there isn't any documentation at all, because none of us are cartoon characters from the early 80s) we're down to saying:

 

"Uh huh!" "Nuh uh!" "Uh huh!" "Nuh uh!" "Uh huh!" "Nuh uh!" "Uh huh!" "Nuh uh!"....

 

in an endless loop.

 

From there, we can consider what the typical methods for interpreting written media are. There are two mutually exclusive methods of interpretation which are: believe in the author's interpretation or find your own interpretation. It's pretty clear what my interpretation is but just so it's down in writing, I claim that I wrote it as a joke.

 

Now from here, it's all up to you. You can choose to trust me and believe my interpretation or create your own. I say trust because that's all you can do seeing as I don't have any evidence that predates my third post.

 

As for the reason why I say it'll probably leave us both unsatisfied is because now the choice is black and white. If you choose to create your own then I can't do anything about that and that's sad because I'm being absolutely sincere when I say that I wrote post #1 in a joking manner. Likewise, if you just take my word for it without believing me then you're not forming your own opinion. (and I still think that you making your own opinion is a good thing, no matter how you go about doing it) If you choose to make your own interpretation (i.e. that I'm lying to you.) then no matter what I say you can create a reason to explain how this is just me trying to defend myself and at the end of the day this will only have wasted more of your time that could've been spent on more important or enjoyable activities and then I'll be to blame for wasting your time which is probably very unsatisfying to you.

 

 

I feel like I'm repeating myself but I'd like to end it with this. At the end of this discussion, if you choose to find your own interpretation of my writing then I can't disagree with you because that's your interpretation and if you choose to trust me then I guess we don't have anything more to say.

Edited January 16, 2015 by JohnPascal

[devinpatterson]

No worries, brother