Game crash. Need suggestions to diagnose the problem

[sora1607]

Hi,

I have quite a number of mods installed and I know that would tend to bring up problems. However, I figured it's worth it to just try and seek help. Here's my mod load order:

 

Fallout3.esm

Anchorage.esm

ThePitt.esm

BrokenSteel.esm

PointLookout.esm

Zeta.esm

Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch.esm

CALIBR.ESM

Project Beauty.esm

FOOK2 - Main.ESM

FOOK2 - [DIK] DLC Improvement Kit.ESM

Mart's Mutant Mod.esm

Enhanced Weather - Rain and Snow.esm

Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Operation Anchorage.esp

Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - The Pitt.esp

Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Broken Steel.esp

Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Point Lookout.esp

Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch - Mothership Zeta.esp

DarNifiedUIF3.esp

Project Beauty- Broken Steel.esp

Project Beauty- Point Lookout.esp

UPP - Pack 1.esp

UPP - Pack 2.esp

UPP - Original Perks.esp

UPP - Experience Perks.esp

UPP - Quest Perks.esp

Megaton House and Theme Overhaul.esp

FOOK2 - Main.esp

FOOK2 - Project Beauty.esp

FOOK2 - [DIK] DLC Improvement Kit.esp

FOOK2 - Mothership Zeta.esp

FOOK2 Main [Hotfix].esp

FOOK2 DIK [Hotfix].esp

FOOK2 - DUI Grenade Fix for 11 Open Beta.esp

Mart's Mutant Mod.esp

Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Anchorage.esp

Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC The Pitt.esp

Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Broken Steel.esp

Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Point Lookout.esp

Mart's Mutant Mod - DLC Zeta.esp

Mart's Mutant Mod - Zones Respawn.esp

Mart's Mutant Mod - Tougher Traders.esp

Mart's Mutant Mod - Natural Selection.esp

Mart's Mutant Mod - Master Menu Module.esp

Mart's Mutant Mod - Project Beauty.esp

Mart's Mutant Mod - FOOK2.esp

Mart's Mutant Mod - FOOK2 - DIK.esp

Fellout-pipboylight.esp

Enhanced Weather - Rain and Snow in Fallout.esp

Enhanced Weather - Weather Sounds in Interiors.esp

Enhanced Weather - Sneak Bonus during Storms.esp

Enhanced Weather - REBOOT.esp

Fellout-Full.esp

Fellout-Anchorage.esp

Fellout-BrokenSteel.esp

Fellout-PointLookout.esp

Fellout-Zeta.esp

FOOK - DIK - Project Beauty.esp

 

The list does not include inactive mods. The mod load order is generated by BOSS and most of them, I installed either manually or via FOMM. Things I have tried to fix my crash problems:

- Changing my FALLOUT.ini file to reduce quad core utilization to duo core instead

- Disabling auto-save on rest, sleep, and fast travel

- Excluding fallout3 in ffdshow

- Lowering setting and HDR

 

My system spec:

 

Win 7 x64 Home Premium

i7 920 @ 4.0

6GB of RAM

EVGA GTX 480

2 HDDs running RAID 0

 

Fallout 3 is running at latest patch with all DLC and Unofficial patch installed. The game started out fine. I ran through the beginning sequence in the vault and early part of megaton without any problems. It started crashing when I get to Springvale and that's during the night. It's been crashing since, day or night. I'm thinking this might be a problem with my pipboy light since I've been having it on since. I will try the game again with it off tomorrow but I'm hoping to get some more suggestions to diagnose this problem. Thank you for your time and help.

[GrindedStone]

I would ditch UF3P (unoffiial fallout 3 patch) then ditch PB Project Beauty because I'd say about 90% of it is overwriten by the other mods right now. Later on you can figure out how to fix it so that MMM NPC's use Project Beauty faces which is pretty easy. Then first thing I would do would be to go find your MMM.rar or MMM.zip you know the thing you installed Mart's Mutant Mod with? The thing you downloaded yes that thing. BTW create a folder on your harddrive named Fallout 3 downloads, in that folder create a folder named Already installed or just installed. Then you can just create a new folder for each download. Drag them to installed when you install them an then you always have a copy.

 

Anyhow back to what I was saying. Open FOMM, hit package manager, click add FOMOD, pick the MMM.rar or MMM.zip you downloaded to install MMM, this will assemble it into a actual FOMOD (it takes forever) When it's finished you'll see MMM in the window, highlight that or checkmark it I forget an hit activate, it should start installing it an ask you quesitons (it also takes forever) Hit yes to all... Then when it's done move the load order around, which you should only have to move the .esm but whatever... Load the whole thing with FO3 edit an create a merge patch (or use gary bash) Then master update it an play the game. Also you could fix all the issues but it would take about 40 hours give or take. You being new maybe it would take 80 hours or a couple of weeks but that's just because of FOOK2. Also it's very possible that FOOK2 is going to cause your merge patch to error which isn't good.

 

 

 

If your favorite mod was FOOK2 an in the FOOK2 read me it said this mod was built an tested with such an such mod, in this exact order, and here are the links to the other mods. Then yeah the whole fallout world would be a different place where we all liked each other an had fun all the time. It's not though, it's just not...

 

Basicly what you are talking about is the "new school" method. That's fine... There are many people who have success with it. However you'll never convince me that it is anything other than luck. My primary argument being that there is no way that all the people who create the mods, FOIP (fallout interoperablity patch), or BOSS can factor in all the available mods along with all the possible orders a person could come up with. This also being exacerbated by the fact that the mods and the content in them change daily, often more than once. Then also there is a certian amount of un-avoidable user error based on the experience level of the person installing this stuff. To which I have to say that I often find myself stuck in a position where I have no idea what it is that I'm looking at even though I've been looking at this stuff for many years.

 

Heck 25% of the stuff here is created by people that don't even speak english. That's just a guess. You could also say that another 25% of the people here have no idea what they are doing when they are creating these mods. Then Geez you could say that another 25% have been messing with this stuff for so long they speak a different language entirely. Bah it's more like 75% of us are total idiots myself included just because I'm American, it's my right after all. In the end it doesn't really matter. There's enough new school folks out there to help you figure out how to apply that method. Yes you still have to put a certain amount of time into figuring it out even though it's the "easy way". I didn't really have a choice so I had to figure it out the hard way. I would guess that if I started today though that I would make the same choice just from wanting to figure it all out. To which trying to figure out the easy way would be a waste of time. Because durring the same amount of time (give or take) I could learn a method which would allow me to load anything I wanted in any order. Even if it's was only providing the basic means in which to do so.

 

Your main problem is that you are a gamer, and from that your perspective is askew from the rest of the computer world. If you are going to get past that you'll have to no doubt lower your standards as well as make some pretty hard choices. However the most important lessons you'll learn are basicly lessons from totally breaking the game, as you no doubt just did. That doesn't matter you learned a whole ton of stuff didn't ya? Just keep running with that....

 

 

1. Your DLC are in the correct order KUDOS woo hoo woopie!

 

2. UF3P (Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch) Has somewhat of a false name. It makes people think that it's going to magicly fix their game. WHOOP WHOOP WHOOPIEEEEEEE! Afraid not... It even says in it's own read me, that it was never designed to work with other mods. As noted when viewed with FO3 edit you'll see that it touches on (changes) over half the game. ( at least from out gamers perspective it's half) Thus it conflicts with 90% of the other mods out there. The addition of the DLC parts of UF3P have the same problem. UF3P is best discribed as a Global class scale overhawl. (known as Overhawls)

 

3.PB Project Beauty- The HD version of this mod is overrated, it's not that HD, As in it's not a very large performance drain on the computer. Certianly not when compared to other mods. PB deals mainly with FACEGEN data anyway. If you ask me where it comes in handy the most is if you have been playing fallout 3 for a while. When you go an add PB it changes the way just about all the NPC's faces look which can make it feel like a new game... Any conflict with PB can be fixed most easy because most of the time it's just a matter of dragging an droping the FACEGEN data over to other mods. Then there are some parts it changes like this color eyes on this NPC or this hair. Drag an drop that an you just PB'ed MMM or FOOK2 or whatever...

 

4. FOOK2 even in it's new form is total junk. This starts with you just about having to have a masters degree in FOOK2 just to install the thing, then furthers with a vast amount of data being injected into Fallout.esm, Injected into Calibr (which they didn't even make calibr) and even it's own .esm an .esp have some injected forms. This is a vast amount of data. When if they would only take their heads out of their behinds for a second they would see that it's not that hard to create content in a 100% clean way. Some of this stuff is hard coded too. While yeah I salute them for the uber hacker skills. These kinds of things are as dirty as it gets if you ask me. Causing errors in the creation of merge patches, causing errors in the actual loading up of a load order, and the worst part is that there is virtually no way to fix it or even begin to edit it. Then when you look at all the other stuff the "normal" content it's dirty too, a vast amount of conflicts which sometimes it's conflicting with itself. It's the status quo of the "global class scale overhawls" They change 90% of the game so they conflict with 90% of the mods out there.

 

5. MMM Marts Mutant Mod I seariously doubt that your FOOK2 FOIP's were created to work with the new version of MMM since it just came out. Futher to even get the Current version of MMM to work you have to assemble the mod into a FOMOD (which takes forever) an install it that way, otherwise it's going to cause issues, if not crashing anytime you load the game. While I'm currently using the menu based version I don't feel it's as much of a challange as it could be if I used the manual verison an just set whatever globals I wanted. That's only because I wasn't limited to the settings I could use the other way. I could use a 6-8 spawn rate from level 1. Which yeah that was really really impossible. I kind of think that the real difficulty comes in around the later higher up levels which is kind of neat.

 

6. Fellout-pipboylight isn't going to cause any issues at all. This being stated because of where it is. Each mod overwrites the privious mod, and there's nothing to overwrite it. However to get the benifit of a brighter pipboy light you are going to have to move it to after the rest of the fellout mod.

 

7. Depending on which is loaded first either enhanced weather or fellout will control the weather an I forget which one is better to try it both ways.

 

 

 

Now meh you know I don't use this kind of FOIP thing I won't even use a overhawl or BOSS or anything like it. I just install the vanilla game an get that running as smooth as I can, then testing it as much as I can stand it. This way I rule out my system an fallout 3 install as to a cause for any future problems. Then I install the DLC an test it again at least getting entry to some of the DLC thru cheating. TMM 1 will toggle on map markers, TMM 0 will turn them off, if you input them in the console. I also run around fast traveling the whole map killing everybody I see, fighting the whole time, and also doing stuff I would never do. This is to make the game crash so that I can spot the normal problems you might have, an know what they look like.

 

After that I'll install mods one at a time. Install them, then load it up with FO3 edit, check for conflicts, fix the conflicts, create overrides if I need to, merge patch, fix the merge patch, master update, then play a test game. After a bit I'll install another, deleting the merge patch an creating a new one, then fixing the new mod, then fix the merge patch, then master update, then play and test, this way if I have a problem I know it's with the last mod I installed rather than stuck somewhere in a list of 80 or 200 mods. There's a lot to it, and it's a lot of work. But that workload is seperated with testing game play so I don't go crazy. Plus I get to balance the game while I'm in there. Then I also get to create Overrides which allow one in game item to use parts from many different mods rather than just the last part that was loaded. Think of it like this, that first mod I install I have to fix so that it works with Fallout.esm +DLC. Then the second mod I install I have to fix to work with Fallout.esm +DLC +My first mod, and so on an so forth.

[GrindedStone]

-------------------------------------------------------------CPU------------------------------------------------------

The Quad core issue is only linked to freezing in certian parts of the game. (not crashing) Further the i7 is actually physical 4 cores with 4 simulated cores (8 core) or what have yah, from the new Hyper threading ability so I hear anyway. However it's not directly linked. I mean you can't say that every quad core user ends up having a fallout 3 which will freeze in certian parts of the game, nor could you say the opposite. I file stuff like this in rumor & speculation or even misconception. That is until it's actually directly linked. In order for yourself to do that you would need to have the un-edited FalloutPref.ini an FALLOUT.ini in the default form which was auto detected upon first launch of the game post install. Which you can delete these two config files, launch the game via the Fallout3Launcher (default launcher) which is in Bethesdsa Softworks/Fallout 3 which will auto detect generate them again. Once you have the un-edited config files in place. Just run your normal vanilla test game (or with mods) then when you have an issue of "freezing" whereby the screen freezes on a single frame an the system is locked up. Change the config files to limit your CPU core multithreading while in fallout 3, then run the game again an duplicate the exact conditions. If it happens again I ask you what good is this speculation & rumor.

 

Then the opposite that, while in your testing of the patched un-modded (vanilla) game your screen froze in the same spot under the exact conditions everytime, then yeah limit your CPU multithreading capabilities, however only if it actually fixes it. I would venture to guess that who ever came up with this rumor & speculation was in fact using a dirty & conflicting load order of messy mods while having this issue. Thus using this as a way to avoid actually having to do some work either fixing the mods or using cleaner mods, or making better decisions, or hard choices on what to not use anymore because it breaks the game. This being done also in a time where Fallout 3's patches had not hit the final mark. SLI an Multithreading support were added in the later patches, so we very well could be talking about an issue which does not exist anymore. In my testing I found that limiting the amount of cores the game could use did nothing, and that the game will freeze from time to time (just like any other game) this being completely dependant on how clean the mods are an how well they work together.

 

------------------------------------------SETTINGS----------------------------------------

 

You should delete the FalloutPref.ini an FALLOUT.ini then launch your default Fallout 3 Launcher, which will auto detect an re-generate your config files. I only say this because more often than not you can get into more trouble than you avoided from using the tweekguide. Once it's auto detected, pretty much all you really need to do is to

 

1. Disable AA- because a modern game like FO3 doesn't even need AA, which AA will cause excessive system tax, as noted by grapical lag or stuttering. System tax itself is linked somewhat as a cause of further coruption (further than what fallout 3 is prone to already) Each example of why a game can go corupt to which there are a few in fallout 3 are exacerbated by system taxing. However the primary benefit of not using AA is the amount of system resources that it frees up which can be applied to other areas for example the size of textures (detail) or even the max amount of projectiles flying around durring combat situations. Two of the highest performance factors in the game.

 

2. Disable or enable AF which is subjective. Not as intrusive or aggressive of a performance cost as AA. However it's still significant. By subjective I mean if you are taking screenshots then turn it off, maybe later when you are about to go into a area where 650 NPC's are waiting to shoot you in the face then maybe turn it off. The primary benefit of using AF is that just the very basic 2X setting will clean up all textures (making them more sharp) across the entire LOD (level of detail) range. The LOD in Fallout 3 being somewhat illusive while also being kind of weird compared to other games. You have your high detail range maybe 0 to 15 feet give or take, with lesser detail from 15 feet to 30 feet, low detail from 30 feet ot 60 feet, an distant LOD beyond that. AF will globaly sharpen each area making the entire game look better, more noted in the lesser detail range.

 

Which is the very reason that huge Texture packs were created. However you take a huge hit in performance from using texture packs. This is because the Vanilla textures are highly optimized by Bethesda, while player made textures lean more toward excessive if they are even optimized at all, because the methods of doing so are quite illusive themself. To which most people have very little idea if any while also being a gamer themself having that somewhat askew gamer perspective. That doesn't mean the texture packs are useless just that it might be better to wait an use them later on when either you are tired of looking at the same old fallout 3 world or you have learned enough about fallout 3 to use them an still get good framerates, or have learned enough to optimize them yourself. AF brings the Vanilla texture out so they look wicked HD if you ask me, however that being said once you get used to how weird the LOD is handled in Fallout 3 running the game without AF isn't that bad at all. I'm not using AF right now an there are only a few times when I even notice it, an I notice AA issues even less than that. What I do notice many times over is a much smoother running game with extremely smooth complex animations.

 

3. Lower your distance sliders in-game. I use 4 clicks from the minimum on all of them. The reason I do this is because they flat out said when Fallout 3 was launched that it's now rendering 4 times as much on screen at any given time than privious games. So 1/4 settings on draw distance is pretty much your normal game. I take that a step further because the effective sniper range I was shooting for in this build of fallout 3 was around 400 feet. Really I only need about 80 metters an that's just so the NPC's don't see me. It's rare for me to even use a sniper attack method, but I wanted to make sure it was somewhat there. Two clicks is pretty much the distance from the Megaton Gate to the Megaton Bomb. I also follow up with the game settings that are set by the mods I'm using because I don't need a draw distance any further than that, to which many silly modders will input totally bogus numbers. Examples would be decal draw distances, empty bullet shells draw distance, gun particles draw distance, auto aim activated distance, max Vats activated distance all of which are based off game units. 120 game units = 6 feet

 

4. You are better off using the "Let the 3D application decide" for you grapics cards settings. This is so you can avoid excessive wear on the grapics card. Then also better off using whatever fallout 3 autodetected because you might be missing out on detail or adding too much thus ruining the game for yourself.

[sora1607]

Thank you for the great replies guys. I really appreciate the efforts you guys put in there. My update situation is as follows:

- Was able to play the game today, going around killing stuff, after defragging my hdd last night.

- Run into the problem with trading. When I sell too many items at once, the game crashes. I was able to replicate the same exact crash scenario many times with any trader

Things I have tried:

- Disabled Project Beauty and Unofficial Patch. Uninstalled Apocalypse Armory. Disabled the FOIP ones. Tried a different load order. None of this have worked so far.

I am certain that the crash has little or nothing to do with my computer. I have also deleted the .ini files and let the game regenerated them. That did not seem to work. The crash has been tested with both super low and super high settings. FPS is absolutely fine in both scenarios. I have done no tweaking with Nvidia Control Panel nor are my GPUs overclocked.

 

I'm tired today after class so I have only tried those things so far. Will do more debugging tomorrow and post back results. Meanwhile, more suggestions will be appreciated. Thanks guys

[GrindedStone]

Start a new game, whatever is causing that problem is locked in the save game.

 

You could also wait 4 days an then try again, but it's a risk that might haunt you later on.

 

Learn FO3 edit, start with Merge Patch an Master update FO3 edit guide by CSB

[sora1607]

I have tried merging the mods. I can't do it though for some reasons I can't right click on the right column. I'm still trying to figure that out

[GrindedStone]

Actual merging of mods is done thru FO3 Plug In Utility (This is a seperate download) It's a simple Java application. It's risky even when it's done 100% clean. This is beside the point because you don't have to even think about starting to merge until you get 200 or 250 mods. Sure you can merge while you go but it will often cause more problems than it solves. The exception to this would be if you were only merging the tiny mods that deal with game settings, you know really small mods. Most of the time it's pretty easy to merge those tiny ones. It's a more advanced process so I wouldn't waste time on it right now.

 

Merge Patch is different than merging mods, it's a semi automated process that will merge list type data among other things. This is so that content from more than one mod can be assembled in the many areas of the game that use list type data. Loot lists, Leveled creature lists, container lists, NPC's inventory, or like Races. Like I said it's semi automated, the first part automaticly picking up on these areas where merging a list would fix it. However there are cases where the merger would cause another error thus these get ignored. So once the Merge Patch is created generally you have to go back an "fill in the holes" so to speak or even repair it. Merge Patch is just a Override at it's heart.

 

Try to think of it like this. You have 3 mods, the first mod has the numbers 1-10 in a list, then the second mod has the number 11-20, with the third mods having 21-30. Merge patch will first add these mods as masters thus allowing any content from each of them to be used, then it creates a new list which overrides the privious 3 list, with the new list having each part 1-30. It's kind of like a spreadsheet, many entries from left to right, with the one the furthest to the right being the version the game uses. The privious entries are overriden by the last one.

 

Mod-A.esm 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

Mod-B.esm ----------------11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20

Mod-C.esm ----------------------------------------21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30

 

In the above picture Mod-A is overrided by Mod-B then that is overrided by Mod-C. This is just one part of the mod, one entry in the spreadsheet, so only the stuff in Mod-C will be used in the game.

 

Mod-A.esm 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

Mod-B.esm ----------------11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20

Mod-C.esm ----------------------------------------21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30

MergePatch 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30

 

As you see above in it's most simple form, Merge patch loads last in the load order, then it also uses other mods as masters so that any content in those mods can be used in the final entry at the end, which in this case allows all the number to be used to form a complete list 1-30 which could be just about anything. Without the merge patch Mod-C would override Mod-A and Mod-B thus breaking the numbers 1-20 because the final entry is Mod-C's which only contains 21-30

 

Mod-A.esm 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10

Mod-D.esm -----------------------31

Mod-B.esm ----------------11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20

Mod-C.esm ----------------------------------------21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30

MergePatch 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30

 

In the above exampe we have added Mod-D which has the number 31 (which could be anything) However because of the way it is made it conficts with the other mods, then also because it's loaded before them it's content is overridden so 31 will never work in the game. Also since MergePatch is semi automated adding 31 to the merge patch would cause a conflict rather than fix it, so Merge patch ignores it. This is why you have to go back an fix the merge patch after you created it.

To create a merge patch all you do is load the whole load order up with FO3 edit, when it says finished, then click on a mod or in the left window, Ctrl A (select all) then right click one of the mods which all should be highlighted from the Ctrl A, pick create merge patch, to which it should say Adding this an that master, also it will say if there is an error. If it does error it's from one of those mods you are using so you should either fix that now or remove the mod then create the merge patch again. Also just about any time you make a change to the load order you need to create a new merge patch. You have to at least go back an scan over it once it's created to see if there are holes or conflicts.