More Immersive Enemy and CM Related Mod Request

[Haxial]

MOD # 1:

 

 

The first mod I am requesting is an enemy related mod. I have always imaged what it would be like if someone snuck into my player house or guild hall and tried to steal something, or assassinate me, or even just ransack it. So for this mod, I would like to see some of this. But I will elaborate...

 

 

Firstly -- I would like people to attempt to kill you randomly, wherever (I do truly mean wherever) you may be, based on your fame or infamy. The higher your fame or infamy is, the more often it will hapen (although never at a ridiculously high rate). The person or people who will attempt to kill you will be either hired freelance agents and bounty hunters or self-titled persons advocated by personal reasons.

 

If the attacks are based on high fame, then the attackers will be dark. Maybe a dark brotherhood agent hired to kill you, or a character with dremora armor on motivated by personal succession.

 

On the other hand, if the attacks are based on your high infamy, then the attackers will be light. Maybe a fighters guild member sent on a mission, or a blades member sent on a mission, or simply a paladin trying to vanquish all evil dwellers in the world.

 

 

Secondly -- I would like NPCs to attempt to ransack or disrupt guild halls randomly. Not often, but every once and a while. So that if you are a part of any certain guild, and in attendance, one or many of your opposers of that guild may come in and try to ransack the building. For example, if you were a member of the Mages Guild and you were in one of the guild halls, necromancers may show up and try to kill everyone in the hall. You would then have to defend the your guild. Another example would be the Blades defending themselves from the Mythic Dawn.

 

 

Thirdly -- I would also like to see random theives attempt to steal things from your player house or guild hall (making it more important for you to have CM partners to guard your player houses).

 

The thieves that try to steal things from your guild hall will be completely random.

 

The theives that come around and try to take things from your player house will come randomly, but the rate at which they come will be based on how high your fame or infamy is. Whichever is highest (either fame or infamy) will be the determining factor in how often theives attempt to steal from your player house.

 

For example, if your fame is 5 and your infamy is 30 then your infamy will be the determining factor in the rate at which the thieves come.

 

I do not want the rate at which the thieves come to be too overwhelming. And I don't want any thieves to ever have 100% chameleon, or to be 100% undetectable for their entire time attempting to steal from you. For example, if they use an invisibility spell or potion, once they touch something or attempt to steal from you they will become visible to anyone around. Thus, not being 100% undetectable for their entire time attempting to steal from you. Also, the thieves shall have a carry weight limit just like a regular character, so they can't steal everything in a house.

 

On a similar note, to make it less "annoying" (because thieves are little bitches sometimes), and to get back something important that may have been stolen from you, there should be a shady person who dwells outside one of the cities and sells things (like lockpics etc...) but most importantly sells very expensive whereabouts to 3 thieves camps locations.

 

These camps will be strongholds for the best thieves of the thieves guild! There, at these very well protected strongholds, you can find a main containment building for the best items. This main containment building, inside the thieves stronghold camp, will have a basement with a guarded chest. Since there will be 3 thieves camps locations, there will be 3 of these chests (1 at each location, in the basement of the main containment building). If a thief successfully steals an item (or items) from your player house and gets away, the item(s) will be randomly placed in 1 of these 3 chests. The items in these 3 chests will NEVER disappear!

 

 

 

 

Fourthly -- I would like this mod to have random bandits, or necromancers, or pirates, or whoever else could possibly show up to hurt people or ransack OUTSIDE locations, to show up at cities, towns, and outside locations to do their evils to anyone who dwells there.

 

I think these evildoers should be stronger than those which would show up at your player house or guild halls (as mentioned above) because there are guards and other NPCs around to help defend the city or town in which they would show up. Also, the evildoers that would show up in the cities or towns would come in greater numbers (not too great) for the same reason.

 

 

 

 

 

MOD # 2:

 

 

First of all, I prefer to use non-essential CM partners. But if one dies, I do not always want to rely on earlier saves. I am requesting a mod which incorporates a spell that can revive (NOT REANIMATE) any non-essential characters in the game. Of course, someone might then say, "Then why don't you just use essential CM partners"!? Well, I want the option to kill any of the other CM partners in the world if I so choose, and I also want the ability to revive anyone who IS a non-essential and non-CM based character.

 

This, altogether, sounds cheap. And I don't want that. So, I want the mod (which contains the revive spell) to require the users character to have a high conjuration skill level, cost a lot, and have a decently hefty toll on the users magika.

 

To be more immersive, too, the mod shall incorporate the characters disposition in the equation. For example, if an NPC is killed or dies for ANY REASON BUT YOU and you revive them then that NPC will have a dramatically INCREASED disposition towards you. And if an NPC is killed or dies from YOU KILLING IT and you revive them then that NPC will have a dramatically DECREASED disposition towards you.

 

 

 

 

Please contact me further if you would like to develop either of these mods. I would like to talk about specifcs and answer any questions a mod developer might have.

 

Thanks,

 

-Haxial

[Ferryt]

Mod #1

 

1. 
    
   
2. Random Attacks: I've always wondered, myself, why the developers didn't include this sort of thing, at least more often than I've seen it (only once while playing this game have I been attacked "randomly", with no obvious reason for the attack, and I just ran to a guard and let him take care of the assailant). It makes sense that the more famous you become the greater a chance of getting challenged, either by your enemies or someone who just wants to make a name for himself.
    
   However, basing anything on infamy is inherently flawed because of the way the game handles infamy. Sure ... do a good deed and word will eventually get around. However, when I play a character who walks on the dark side, that character operates entirely within the shadows. Just how in the blazes does anyone know I have "x" number of infamy points from missions in the Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild, anyway? I have characters who have never been caught committing a crime. By day they're ordinary citizens of Cyrodiil. By night ... well, you get the point, I hope. The fact is that every single one of the infamy points those characters acquired were due to actions known only to a very few people, and those people (the quest givers, themselves) aren't blabbing this stuff all over Tamriel. There is no way in all the Planes of Oblivion that anyone outside of the DB or TG could possibly know that those characters have ever committed a crime -- and, yet, everyone in Cyrodiil seems to be familiar with their exploits, at least in the abstract sense of "infamy". Like I said ... it's an inherently flawed, logically-bankrupt concept as implemented by this game.
    
   
3. Guild Attacks: While I've noticed random acts of violence, theft, and pickpocketing in the game, I've never seen any example of an NPC making a direct attempt to break a crime in a guild hall. This would be a very interesting addition to the game. However, CM Partners places additional NPCs in and around each guild hall. A mod would have to be able to detect the presence of a companion mod and adjust the strength of the attacking force, accordingly.
    
   
4. PC Home Burglary: I'm not sure how much I like this. What if my only home is the shack on the IC Waterfront? You imply, later on, that members of the Thieves Guild might be doing this, and, yet, it's against the tenants of the Thieves Guild to steal anything from any resident of the Waterfront (the residents are under the direct protection of the Gray Fox, himself). And what if my character is a member of the Thieves Guild? Any other member who attempted to steal from that character would be subject to immediate rejection from the Guild, as per its basic tenants.
    
   Again, while fame might have something to do with a burglar's choice of hit locations, infamy should not. As I stated, above, and since you're looking for "immersion", then don't break immersion by having everyone in the world psychically aware of all your characters wrongdoings. It's bad enough that city guards are aware of your deepest, innermost thoughts and are tied together in a psychic network that spans all of Cyrodiil.
    
   You stressed this particular idea to make it "more important for you to have CM partners to guard your player houses". This is a mistake, since it would tie this mod to the CM Partners mod out of necessity, and not everyone uses (or even likes) CM Partners. In fact, I tried it and it was the final straw in a long train of experiences with partners and NPCs that convinced me that they're more trouble than they're worth because of their uncanny talent for getting in your way when you're trying to kill something, resulting in injury/death/bounty/arrest for something you couldn't possibly have prevented. If the mod were set up to only have the burglaries when my character is home (as with the guilds) then this would be OK. If I'm going to be expected to install CM Partners to keep my stuff, then I'd pass on this mod, too.
    
   
5. Random Other Attacks: There's already a bit of this in the game. I witnessed a named NPC (can't remember who it was) attempt to pickpocket someone outside a city near the stable, and get arrested by a guard and escorted into the city (presumably to go to jail). That actually surprised me more than seeing Ongar try to steal something in Olav's Tap and Tack, then running up the stairs toward the rooms where he was attacked and killed by a city guard. Having small groups of criminals assaulting citizens, though, is going to break some things in the game, because not all the people you have to deal with for various quests and services/goods are flagged as essential. It's already possible for a number of NPCs to get killed by random bandits or wild animals, breaking things in the game in the process. I hate to think how crazy things will get once there are really concerted attempts by the Bad Guys to wreck havoc.
   

 

Mod #2

 

• This seems to be to be mostly a kludge to correct some of the problems regarding killing off important NPCs, as well as letting you kill CM Partners, that I mentioned above. In view of that, I have to say I don't like it. Mod #1 needs to be constructed to take those issues into consideration, making this ex deus machina unnecessary. However, it could be incorporated into Mod #1. Why make it a separate mod, thereby contributing to the "mod bloat" which can quickly overtake a game?

[Haxial]

In response to Ferryt:

 

I see your concern with infamy, but in many cases, word gets out. I know, of course, the player who never gets caught would not want infamy to affect the way others view or act towards them. This does make it broken. But in what way could an evil person ever possibly get to experience this mod? If they are evil (like I typically choose to be) and they would like the thrill of defending themselves against these anti-evil attacks then this mod would be very fun.

 

What I'm about to say is totally hypothetical. But the issue is based on something that has no virtual value. It is simply a role playing issue.

 

When a person does something shady, if even one person sees them doing something suspicious, then they may tell someone else. Even if they never get caught doing something wrong, they still might be known as the person who lingers in the graveyard past midnight and has been spotted by a beggar summoning a zombie. This person may have been spotted by a neighbor sneaking around the town at night with a dagger drawn and returning to their house in the wee hours of the night. Maybe after being seen doing something shady like this, a spy is hired to follow you the next time when you are doing something shady. Then a spy, being completely invisible, follows you and catches you doing something evil. After reporting back to whoever hired the spy, that person, maybe a paladin, will now try to hunt you down and kill you.

 

That was completely hypothetical, and could be a role playing reason to explain why someone would hunt after you due to your infamy.

 

Altogether though, this could be further thought out and constructed. At least to be less abstract.

 

 

On a seperate note, the thief issue you brought up, of the IC Waterfront and being a part of the thieves guild could be easily dealt with.

 

* First off, if you're part of the thieves guild then no one will steal from you. Plain and simple, that could be a part of the mod.

 

* Secondly, if you onwed a the house on the IC Waterfront, as you stated above, then you wouldn't be stolen from, as it is protected by Gray Fox. Simple as that. That also, could be a part of the mod.

 

You also brought up a good point about HAVING to have CM partners. No, I shall rephrase myself. I meant, it would be possibly more usful but far from neccessary. In fact, I agree. I think your house should only be broken into while you're there. I never mentioned this, simply becasue I forgot to, but I think it would be unfair to expect people to defend their homes while they aren't there. Although less realistic this way, I don't want things being stolen from players while they're out and about on their own business.

 

-Haxial

[Ferryt]

Well, Haxial, I really do see where you're trying to go with this argument in favor of the infamy factor, but I have to say that it's as contrived as Jauffre letting you go off to save the world all by your own little lonesome on the sole evidence of a (possibly stolen) Amulet of Kings and a (definitely unarguably wild) story (even if you show up dressed in prison garb and wearing your wrist cuffs and with a bounty on your head). OK, pet peeve of mine -- to me, "immersion" is very closely related to "reality", where "reality" has nothing to do with the fact that Oblivion has elements of the fantastic within it. "Reality" means things are predictable in terms which real people can understand -- and that means that characters react like people would really react in real life.

 

With that as a basic premise, allow me to explain my issues with this. First of all we have some established things in the game and we can't ignore those. If my character as much as picks up a worthless pewter cup from the floor of someone's house and replaces it on the table, and the owner sees this happen, my character is going to be reported to the authorities and arrested, even though nothing was actually "stolen". Given this, there's no way the authorities can be aware of PCs' shady activities and not pursue them with intent to arrest.

 

Now, let's take a look at my last character who chalked up quite an infamy score through her association with the Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood, and ownership of Deepscorn Hollow. My intention with this character was that she would never, ever, be arrested ... for anything. I went to great pains to insure that none of her thefts or killings could be observed by anyone, and they weren't. Had they been she would have been arrested and imprisoned. That's just the way the game works. The authorities aren't just going to follow a known criminal around, watching her burglarize homes (and worse) and killing people. And, of course, every time she sent her servant in Deepscorn Hollow out to kill "in the Name of Sithis" she received an infamy point for it. How? Who told anyone she ordered the killing and if everyone in the world knows she was involved then why wasn't she arrested on sight during her normal dealings with merchants and city guards? Maybe the Gods and Daedric Princes might be aware of her dark dealings, but mere mortals? I don't think so. And what if she was being followed by an invisible spy? Now the authorities know of the location of Deepscorn Hollow, the Cheydinhal Dark Brotherhood Sanctuary, and all her contacts in the Thieves Guild, but no action is ever taken to shut those places down? Incomprehensible.

 

I doubt there's a way to do it, but this game really needs to deal with two sorts of Infamy and Fame -- that which is publicly known and that which is not known to anyone but supernatural beings who don't have the limited perceptions of mortals. I have no problem with my character having a mark on his/her criminal record if actually caught committing a crime, but when I know that crime went completely unobserved by mortal eyes I have a problem when some NPC has a problem with that character's "infamy" due to an unobserved crime. Similarly, some good deeds might never get reported, or might take a long time to filter into the general rumor mill. Indeed, perhaps a character should acquire infamy just by associating with the dark elements of Cyrodiil (even if unknowingly), or by talking to beggars frequently. After all, if fame and infamy spreads by word of mouth, you can bet that people seeing such things are going to talk behind the PCs back because real people do that all the time. It's called "guilt by association".

 

I know Bethesda thought they were being clever with the whole Fame/Infamy/Renown thing, but it just wasn't clearly thought through to its rational conclusion -- or, perhaps, was just dumbed down like the rest of the game, assuming the players would be too stupid to notice the internal inconsistency in the way its used.

[Haxial]

Compelling argument. But as I hope you see, I am not arguing. In fact, I agree. But you understand I am working with a "broken" game, in certain senses, so I am trying to make the best work of it. As the infamy issues are concerned, I was viewing it as, like you said, a word of mouth or "guilt by association" thing. Kind of like a bad person, who you know has done many bad things, but still roams about because no one has any evidence against him/her. Like a mobster (Al Capone). Or one of his associates. Even his lawyer was considered corrupt, along with many police officers who were actually innocent of any crimes.

 

All in all, yes, it is a broken system. But I was just attempting to deal with what already existed within the game. I felt like the evil players would miss out if this mod only differs to players fame but never infamy.

 

Ferryt, do you develop mods?

 

-Haxial

[Ferryt]

Understood. That's why there are modders. The game is broken and needs to be fixed -- a never-ending quest for perfection. I'd just like to see the infamy issue addressed and linked to a mod like the one you're asking for just for those overtly evil/selfish characters who really don't care how much jail time they do or what people think of them.

 

I was learning to mod, but that project is on a hiatus, awaiting the purchase of a computer which can actually run Oblivion without screaming for mercy. My laptop tries, bless its memory chips, but even in the Vanilla game there are places where I can barely get two fps out of it. Trust me -- it's like watching a slide show, instead of playing a game. I'm at the point right now where I can build using available parts and pieces, landscape the terrain, and I understand very basic scripting. I can mod AIs and while I've never tried to create a quest I think I can do that. I'm no artist or 3D design guru, though, so crafting original material for the game is quite beyond my capability, and if it comes down to voice acting I'd have to find other people to do it because I'm mute, IRL.

[Haxial]

So how do you think you could handle a mod like the one I'm requesting? I don't plan on doing any voice acting, as this doesn't involve questlines. Rather, just designing some places (for the thieves strongholds), NPC scripting, and scripting for the spell possibly (although that would probably be the easist to do), and lots of testing for balancing purposes and de-bugging. If you feel up to it just let me know. I will work through any issues, like the infamy issue, and test away. I have a nice system that can handle any mods. In fact, I have boosted the ammount of RAM that oblivion runs on with an editing program (to above the minimum 2 gb) because my system runs on 8 gb of RAM.

 

Let me know if you would like to take this mod into consideration.

 

-Haxial

[Ferryt]

Let me think about it, but if someone else comes along and wants to give this a try, let him at it. As I said, my current modding is at a halt, pending purchase of a new computer, which looks like it might be at least a couple months away, now. I don't even have Oblivion installed on my computer at the moment. I have a number of my own modding projects that are currently on-hold because of this, as well.

 

Much of what you want will probably involve quests. A "quest" isn't just someone assigning you a task and then you completing it. It's the way complex (and even simple) ordering of events is handled in Oblivion -- something like getting your stuff back from a Thieves Guild stronghold, for instance, would best be crafted as a quest. This is one thing where I've never put my own modding skills to the test in-game. This is probably going to be a pretty large project, and you're likely better off getting a small team of people to work on it -- someone who is good at building/landscaping, someone who is good at quests/AI, and someone who is good at scripting, rather than relying upon a single person to do everything.

[Haxial]

Okay, just let me know if you'd like to try it. I am planning on continuing the development of the ideas and project design. I will probably re-post a new request when I have a name for the mod and a better and less vague idea of the mod. Haha, I was never planning on only assigning a single person to develop this mod. I was going to do a little head hunting. But for now, I am putting that aside to develop my ideas. Message me if you're interested. If I don't get a message by the time I am ready to start my hunt for modders then I will send you a message to see whether or not you're interested at that time.

 

-Haxial