Riprock Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Could it be that the developers find the Nordic aspects of the game mythos more interesting and better food for cultivating the game? It could precious, it could.Thereby implying Nordicism.Why would you make a game with different cultures in it, then favor some over the other? Might as well make the whole game about vikings in that case. But if there's comparisons between cultures being made in game, and they're showing Nordic aspects as "better" than others, then there's a problem there. So you actually are playing with the idea of viewing this game as an analogue for a cultural snub in the real world.You ask "why would you make a game" along your criteria. Well, firstly, I did not make it, obviously. Do not ask me to stand proxy. Secondly, it's clear you have a personal issue at stake here re: cultures not being given equal time. You brought up conspiracy theorism, and I'm about to make you a nice silver hat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FegelTemplar Posted January 18, 2015 Author Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) Could it be that the developers find the Nordic aspects of the game mythos more interesting and better food for cultivating the game? It could precious, it could.Thereby implying Nordicism.Why would you make a game with different cultures in it, then favor some over the other? Might as well make the whole game about vikings in that case. But if there's comparisons between cultures being made in game, and they're showing Nordic aspects as "better" than others, then there's a problem there. So you actually are playing with the idea of viewing this game as an analogue for a cultural snub in the real world.You ask "why would you make a game" along your criteria. Well, firstly, I did not make it, obviously. Do not ask me to stand proxy. Secondly, it's clear you have a personal issue at stake here re: cultures not being given equal time. You brought up conspiracy theorism, and I'm about to make you a nice silver hat. Semantics are never worth discussing. Not interested in playing a "you said this"/"you said that" game with you, we both know it's childish. Do you have a valid reason for saying that "Nordic aspects of the game mythos are more interesting and better food for cultivating the game?" Edited January 18, 2015 by FegelTemplar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riprock Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 If you wish to avoid childishness, then get my statements right and do not remove them from their context. I did not say that "Nordic aspects of the game mythos are more interesting and better food for cultivating the game" and present it as a fact. You have deliberately taken me out of context. My full post was a question that asked : "Could it be that the developers find the Nordic aspects of the game mythos are more interesting and better food for cultivating the game?" See how the omission of the full statement changes what I posted? So in answer to your demand that I provide a valid reason for my statement, my reply is that there is nothing for me to explain, because you made my words into something they were not. I already told you once not to ask me to stand proxy for the developers. Why they might come to the conclusion I suggested may be for a galaxy of reasons. You want a fight, you want to find wrong-doing on a basic level regarding a fantasy, made up game, and you want vindication for it. Some personal thorn is in your side. Work it out, I'm not your therapist, but don't you mis-quote me and then demand I answer for your partial quote, as if I have been un-masked in my duplicity. Your antics here represent the worst of the casual internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simtam Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 The game's soundtracks, appearance and other aesthetic elements are not designed to remind the player of a romanticised version of mediterranean culture, they are instead bland fantasy.I find this the weakest link in the chain of your analysis.A lot of that what you called, in your enthusiasm, a bland fantasy, has root in the King Arthur's Legend. The King Arthur which, on account of being more historically accurate, was portrayed as a Roman military-trained person in certain movie (from the year more or less the same as LOTR movies and Oblivion development). That's because Roman empire conquered also Britain. And so, a romanticised version of Roman empire is the arthurian, implying anglo-saxon, legend. Whether you find Oblivion bland or not is another matter; if you attempt to scrutinize Bethesda works for XIX-century modern racial ideologies, you have to make your analysis flawless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraquar Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 OP needs to take a step back and breath: When you think of the Vikings, you think of barbarians with a lust for conquest by the sword (Nords in Skyrim - think Elves purging back in the day)When you think of the Romans, you think of shewd diplomacy (conquest through avoiding war). building infrastructure and then ruling if necessary by the sword (think Imperials). How does that turn into a conspiracy theory? Seems pretty accurate to me, and lets be honest, diplomacy is far, far more boring in a game like this than warfare (watch C-SPAN for a few hours - I dare you). :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shubal Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 It's a goofy fantasy game based on developers vague half baked notions of times past. Trying to get to the bottom of poorly portrayed reality is a waste of philosophical mana. Skyrim is in the eye of the beholder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lachdonin Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 There is certainly a nordicist perspective in TES, but I'm not sure it's intentional. It's representitige of the polarity of the two Ehlnkfex factions, the Wanderers and the Old Ehlnofey. These are represented, most purely, by the Nords and Altmer in general. In TES, the Nords, and their culture, ARE more pure-Mannish than anyone else. All others are a combination of Mannish and Merish influences. So, when dealing with explicitly human issues, the Nords are going to he portrayed as the 'Pure' side of things, representing concepts which may be more relatable to us as outsiders. If we were in the real world, the WOULD be superior. But we're in Mundus, so the rules are different... The Cyrods are actually the single greatest culture and people in Tamriel, which kind of throws out the nordicist perspective. They're the harmony of Man and Mer, and likely more representitive of the greater whole than either the Nords or the Altmer. There is a reason every manor Empire has been ruled by the Cyrods... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FegelTemplar Posted January 18, 2015 Author Share Posted January 18, 2015 OP needs to take a step back and breath: When you think of the Vikings, you think of barbarians with a lust for conquest by the sword (Nords in Skyrim - think Elves purging back in the day)When you think of the Romans, you think of shewd diplomacy (conquest through avoiding war). building infrastructure and then ruling if necessary by the sword (think Imperials). How does that turn into a conspiracy theory? Seems pretty accurate to me, and lets be honest, diplomacy is far, far more boring in a game like this than warfare (watch C-SPAN for a few hours - I dare you). :smile:See that's why people romanticise stories. Saying the vikings are barbarians with a lust of conquest, horned helmets, massive meadhalls in their afterlife, dragon fights, and so on and so forth, is a romanticised version of reality. I would bet that most Scandinavians back then were farmers.When you say the Romans were diplomats and good builders, that's a realistic approach (although you can't forget they had impressive armies, excellent training and excellent teamwork, and those bloody gladiators).If you chose to romanticise Romans, you also get gladiators or warriors who strive to fight their way through social ranks and go around killing mythical creatures like minotaurs, centaurs and what not. Think of the legend of Hercules, think of other legends originally inspired from Greek culture. It would have been 100% possible for Bethesda to make an epic tale about Imperials from that perspective. No more no less than what they did with Nords. So the question remains, why would they chose to leave one race as the boring race it was in real life, but elevate the other to the high rank of fantasy? Could it be that they believe the nordic race is superior to others in real life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lachdonin Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 It would have been 100% possible for Bethesda to make an epic tale about Imperials from that perspective. No more no less than what they did with Nords. So the question remains, why would they chose to leave one race as the boring race it was in real life, but elevate the other to the high rank of fantasy? Could it be that they believe the nordic race is superior to others in real life?Unlikely. I think some series-context is necessary to understand why things were done the way they were... In Morrowind, the Imperials were depicted with heavy Greco-Roman influences. These alsmot entirely disappeared long with basically every reference of what Cyrodiil was like, when Oblivion came out. It was ana generic, boring, character-free mess, and people flipped. The. Eff. Out. The Bethesda forums, still somewhat young at the time, exploded, and several developers were outright threatened. When going into Skyrim, they knew they couldn't make the same mistake they had before, despite the commercial success of Oblivion. So they pretty much designed the province, to a T, around its description in the PGE. some of the more... Peculiar aspects, like the naked Glacier-dwelling tribes and the flying whales got left out, but they tried much harder to encapsulate as much of Nordic culture and identity as they could. Kind of dropped the ball on religion in order to focus on Talos, but whatever... At he same time, they tried to make up for the Oblivion debacle by giving the Cyrods some of their personality back. But this game was never about the Cyrods, it was about the Nords, so. The Nords had to take center stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FegelTemplar Posted January 18, 2015 Author Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) It would have been 100% possible for Bethesda to make an epic tale about Imperials from that perspective. No more no less than what they did with Nords. So the question remains, why would they chose to leave one race as the boring race it was in real life, but elevate the other to the high rank of fantasy? Could it be that they believe the nordic race is superior to others in real life?Unlikely. I think some series-context is necessary to understand why things were done the way they were... In Morrowind, the Imperials were depicted with heavy Greco-Roman influences. These alsmot entirely disappeared long with basically every reference of what Cyrodiil was like, when Oblivion came out. It was ana generic, boring, character-free mess, and people flipped. The. Eff. Out. The Bethesda forums, still somewhat young at the time, exploded, and several developers were outright threatened. When going into Skyrim, they knew they couldn't make the same mistake they had before, despite the commercial success of Oblivion. So they pretty much designed the province, to a T, around its description in the PGE. some of the more... Peculiar aspects, like the naked Glacier-dwelling tribes and the flying whales got left out, but they tried much harder to encapsulate as much of Nordic culture and identity as they could. Kind of dropped the ball on religion in order to focus on Talos, but whatever... At he same time, they tried to make up for the Oblivion debacle by giving the Cyrods some of their personality back. But this game was never about the Cyrods, it was about the Nords, so. The Nords had to take center stage. Remains to be seen with the next game. Fact remains that Skyrim convinced many people here that Nordic culture is good and epic and Mediterranean culture is bland and boring. See some of the opinions posted here, see the link to the review I posted in the first post. I'll give you that Nords too were bland and boring in previous games. Edited January 18, 2015 by FegelTemplar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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