Game makers need to grow up

[Vagrant0]

Ok, let's step back a bit. Isn't the problem the fact that there aren't many games directed toward adults? Not the content in those games, such as violence, sex, usage of language, ect, but the overall depth and complexity of the game. Can't a game without any violence, sex, or any of that, be enjoyable by adults? Can't even a game geared toward teens be enjoyable by intellectually developed adults? What grand purpose does suddenly adding in more sex serve, really? Game makers could still make good games without using it, maybe not now, with the focus being graphics, but certainly in the past. If the adult film industry gets involved, don't you think it more likely that games will go the way of porn (their specialty), rather than art? Think about this.

 

*Edit*

 

On the otherhand, what is really keeping game makers from releasing games with sexual content? There aren't any laws saying that they can't portray it tastefully. They've certainly done it in the past (even if you, or the reporter of that work isn't aware of it). There are certainly alot of people paying lots of money for constant sexual content (called the internet). Why?

Alright, explain how you envision this game that has explicit sexual content, but does not make it the basis for the game. Ok, now take that game, and run it through how you would expect the current market to react to it. Do more people buy it for the storyline, or do they buy it just because it has sex scenes in it? Most likely, it will be the latter, if not at first, eventually once you have some mother screaming on the news about how bad this game is, and you have groups urging stores to yank it off their shelves. Sure, it sells, but then there is the backlash, the lawsuits, and god knows what. It doesn't matter the context in some people's eyes.

This is why. Look at the few games that have had sexual content, most of them have been yanked off store shelves as soon as people find out about it. The reason isn't the game makers, it is society.

 

That aside. Nobody has ever said to remove it completely, and dumb everything down to gradeschool level. Should it be limited and regulated? Yes. Why? Because there are a great many people who are not ready to totally accept everything that is out there. Does regulating it mean that you're preventing an artist from producing art? Absolutely not. What it does do however is keep those with genuinely unhealthy views from encouraging those views on the populace. Can you make a movie about a child forced into prostitution... Yes. Can you show explicit scenes of that child preforming acts on other people... No. Does it still have the potential to tell the story in an enriching manner without those scenes... Certainly. Are there games out there that deal with this exact subject matter? Yes, it's illegal in most countries, but it still exists (have not played/seen it, will not give you titles). Why bring up this instance? Because from a film perspective there is more responsibility on both those making the product, and those viewing the product. A game can be made by anyone, played by anyone.

 

Chances are, you're still confused. Let me make it simple. How many games made in the last 5 years have what could be called a "strong and developed" storyline? How many of those don't have a mature rating? Ok, take that number and write it down. Now, how many games made in the last year have a "weak to non-existant" storyline? How many of those have a mature rating? Which group usually sells better?

 

You want more depth and complexity, but also more sex? Look at the trends... That isn't happening, it's usually one or the other. Go read a book instead.

 

*edit2*

Lets take this back a step further. How does

In Australia, more than 70 per cent of gamers are adult and more than a third are female

suddenly become "we need more sex." Is that 24% or so of all gamers that make up the adult female portion in the contry that interested in sex? Even if it was presented in a mature light, would they want to buy those games? What about the remaining 56% of gamers? Do they actually want games that have sexual content? Aren't most of the people buying these games in the males 15-24 year old range, who themselves aren't what anyone would considder mature? Are even 40-50 year old men really that much more mature than that 24 year old? This could be just a reflection of my own country, but I have seen people alot older than me do some of the most childish things. Age has nothing to do with maturity. If you want to argue this end, tell me how many adult gamers have college degrees, and have had stable, and ongoing work for the last 3-5 years. 10-15% of all gamers, at best right? How many of them are asking for sex games? 2-3% at best right? I may not have the numbers, may have done little research on the matter, but I believe most people could agree with these figures.

 

Now, from a producer's persepective, is that 2-3% of all gamers worth catering to, or would it make more sense to tone down some elements and make a game that 10-20% of the population would want? We've already agreed on the whole "quality = sucks" front, I think we could agree that most of that 10-20% wouldn't want those games because they would suck. This is another reason why most of the sexually explicit games have been independant projects, and had only small scale marketing. A major company would spend more producing and marketing the product (public outcry aside) than they would likely get back from the small percentage of gamers who would buy it. Then there is the whole public backlash against that company which would only make their situation worse. Look at some of the companies that have had to deal with this, it takes them years to recover.

 

How is any of this a good idea?

[phawk69]

Ok, let's step back a bit. Isn't the problem the fact that there aren't many games directed toward adults? Not the content in those games, such as violence, sex, usage of language, ect, but the overall depth and complexity of the game. Can't a game without any violence, sex, or any of that, be enjoyable by adults? Can't even a game geared toward teens be enjoyable by intellectually developed adults? What grand purpose does suddenly adding in more sex serve, really? Game makers could still make good games without using it, maybe not now, with the focus being graphics, but certainly in the past.

 

I believe that was the point at the start of this thread - that games need to be more mature, more indepth. Not just the addition of sex and violence, but real adult situations with adult emotions, and all that goes with it. And, as I said earlier, if I want adult situations, I will go upstairs and have them - keep my video games juvenile and I will use them for escape.

 

The biggest problem with making games grow up (as I see it) is how do you program a computer to react like a woman? There isn't a processor out there big enough or fast enough, and there are no male programmers who can get into a female brain well enough to accomplish the task. Hell, likely they are programming and playing games because they can't figure out their girlfriend now, and you want them to make a computer react like something they don't understand? We already have the real world: let us explore the unreal a little while longer :)

[Carbon14]

Nice post, I actually live in Australia and saw the article too, I found it rather interesting.

 

T'skar, while you evidently dont want to see this in games I am pretty sure others do. Games include everything else, so why not adult themes and sex? And while your point about "I can go upstairs with my real girlfriend" games are like you said, unreal, but I dont see why that exludes sex..? how many times have you had the chance to seduce some fantasy armor clad bimbo in real life might I ask? or an alien? (if thats your thing) or a furry animal-cross-human (yuck, but some people would want it) or been seduced by a goddess? games ARE about the unreal, and YES relationships get tedious in games when they are done like san andreas did them (high maintenence with little storyline) but if it was done right it would add so much.

 

Seriously think about how many movies and books you have read. Often their main character meets some unwitting girl who starts following the main character around, or meets him at random times. Dont you get a feeling of excitement when the girl finally shows she likes the lead? or when they finally give up hiding their feelings and throw their clothes down and go at it? this sort of thing is even in tv series...? why not games?

[Vagrant0]

Seriously think about how many movies and books you have read. Often their main character meets some unwitting girl who starts following the main character around, or meets him at random times. Dont you get a feeling of excitement when the girl finally shows she likes the lead? or when they finally give up hiding their feelings and throw their clothes down and go at it? this sort of thing is even in tv series...? why not games?

 

There are quite alot of games that follow this same sort of path, with varying degrees of nudity. This is even it's own genere, Dating Sims. The issue is that most adults would rather just watch the tv program/movie, or read the book than play a game involving it. This is mostly because there isn't a whole lot of a gaming element to this sort of situation. The only element that is gameworthy is all the stuff related to figuring out what to say when, and dating sims (atleast the good ones) already have that down. But the discussion isn't about games promoting and encouraging relationships between two people, it is about adding sex to games. If you take that same dating sim, add in several erotic scenes as your "reward" then the game becomes seen more as pornography, and less of anything meaningful, so most adults won't have anything to do with it. Even playing dating sims, something that might help you realize your own flaws, has a certain stigma associated with it. Sex really doesn't translate to games that well, it either ends up being almost a movie/slideshow, or it makes light of the issue. In both cases, it's usually the younger adult (14-22 years old) who's buying it, so they're happy with that sort of stuff.

[Guest]

Its quite simple...

Theres a demand for Sexual based books/magazines publishers provide.

Theres a demand for it in movies ...producers provide.

 

 

etc etc IF thers a demand even a Niche demand then someone somewhere will provide it albeit with regulation.

 

As in anime theres a small niche of explicit PC games available here.

 

But to say publuishers grow up listen to audience is just stupid...They do they wants money

 

IF there was a real demand that could be converted into profit..

 

Then such games would be produced...but the same as movies books magazines rarely by the mainstream there core business is what they want to keep image etc etc.

 

 

That they arent produced has nothing to do with companies and everything to do with unproven demand.

 

 

 

its called a market economy.

[Evangelion_2014]

The entire issue comes from the public viewing video games as a strictly "kids market". A good historical comparison would be movies. Even though there were explicit books way before explicit movies, the public thought that movies were just a novel amusement, not a serious art form, much like video games are thought of today. The masses didn't recognize the artistic potential of movies, so they thought that anything other than a sped up video of a rag-time dance was evil. Art exists strictly to portray all forms of human life in a meaningful(or even just entertaining) way. Although the godfather, the sopranos, and even the illiad have violent and sexual content in them, nobody can deny their place as great works of art. Another problem that faces games is that they are used as a scapegoat. Instead of parents taking responsibility for their job in life (being parents) and not buying GTA:SA(a game named grand theft auto, with suggestive pictures on the front, so if you would just look at the box you shouldn't get it for your ten year old) from knowing about what your kids do. Instead of focusing on the real problems of society, such as corruption, poverty and ignorance, we find it easier and simpler to simply blame a simple game. In the columbine incident, many just blamed the atrocity on the fact that they played doom. Anyone who has read the journal and watched the tapes and read the webpages knows that those boys problems went far, far beyond a simple game. Another issue is that many in the united states view any kind of explicit content is automatically bad(a puritan attitude) and so they would rather have art just be a nice pretty, miniscule portrait of their limited and infantile worldview. Media is a blank slate. People take meaning from it in any way they chose to interpret it.

 

As far as the games themselves, it's a fine line between making a truly mature game and a vain attempt to gain shock value and to sell to impressionble 10 yearolds. Some games use violence and other explicit gameplay just to make a game for mature auidences, or something that adds to the gameplay or storyline. For instance BMX XXX was just a bad game that sold only because it had naked bikers in, not on the merit of the game itself. That is just a blatant sales pitch. However, some games/movies/books require violence or sex because of what they try to portray. For instance, if you tried to make a movie about the holocaust without truly adressing the horrors of the nazi's twisted creed, it would be impossible, and ultimately an insulting mockery to all of the innocent people that died under hitler's rule.

 

On the matter of hentai/dating/porn games, I have no problem with them. They just are the natural adaptation of porn into video game form. And we all know porn has it's uses.

 

Phew. Anbody feel like summarizing that monster of a post?

[Marxist ßastard]

Phew. Anbody feel like summarizing that monster of a post?

 

The entire issue comes from the public viewing video games as a strictly "kids market".

 

[OT rant deleted]

 

On the matter of hentai/dating/porn games, I have no problem with them. They just are the natural adaptation of porn into video game form. And we all know porn has it's uses.

[Abramul]

It should be noted that games can include sex without being explicit, as in, for instance, Fallout 2. I don't see much use for sex in games (even if it's only implied) except as a plot element or creating a necessary atmosphere.

[Evangelion_2014]

It should be noted that games can include sex without being explicit, as in, for instance, Fallout 2. I don't see much use for sex in games (even if it's only implied) except as a plot element or creating a necessary atmosphere.

 

Right. I'm just saying that some games use explicit sex as a driving force in the plot, unfortunately there are far more that use sex just as a selling point for teenagers and young adults.

[Azrune]

You know I seriously don't get why parents, game publishers, and poloticians care don't want any games with nudity or sexual content to exist, but they are almost completley fine anymore with decapitating people just because you feel like it. What would you rather want a person seeing, the best and bloodiest way to maul a person, or stuff that they will without a doubt experiance and see thousands of times in their lives.