spoiler Avernus and Eamon

[ell46]

Loghain took the blood so it would stand to reason he would give it back; otherwise he would be killed outright as his options are do the joining or die.

 

I've been thinking about that recently, Riordan must have retrieved the blood before Loghain was on his knees and after the landsmeet there was still time to recruit new wardens even if it was only the PC's that were asked and maybe some of the knights from Redcliffe like Ser Perth, it seems miserable that this wasn't allowed for in the game, other than the obvious BW and DG plus any other writers.

[Alehazar]

Loghain took the blood so it would stand to reason he would give it back; otherwise he would be killed outright as his options are do the joining or die.

 

That would make Loghain one mighty hypocrite. If he truly wanted to see the Wardens destroyed, he should've simply destroyed the blood so no more potential Wardens could be put through the Joining. Of course one could argue that it is mostly the Orlesian Wardens that Loghain has a problem with -and the fact that the Ferelden Wardens (and Cailan) wanted to bring them to Ferelden to defeat the Blight. And letting any type of Orlesian fighting force back in to Ferelden is treason, according to Loghain. Still, if Loghain becomes a Warden, he has to accept that the Orlesian Wardens will be his brothers -and that just seems too bitter a pill to swallow for a man whose hatred for anything Orlesian is so pervasive that it infuses his entire being. So for Loghain to become a Warden must be like being forced into Exile for an Orzammar Warrior: worse than death. So it'd be a fitting punishment alright, but if Loghain himself would have a say about his fate, I think he'd prefer to die instead. Riordan could then invoke the Right of Conscription, making Loghain's protest inconsequential.

So I guess the PC has to decide whether Loghain lives -and Alistair dies or leaves- or whether Loghain dies -and Alistair stays on as a Warden, regardless whether he'll be king or marry Anora.

Edited December 2, 2010 by Alehazar

[Alehazar]

Loghain took the blood so it would stand to reason he would give it back; otherwise he would be killed outright as his options are do the joining or die.

 

I've been thinking about that recently, Riordan must have retrieved the blood before Loghain was on his knees and after the landsmeet there was still time to recruit new wardens even if it was only the PC's that were asked and maybe some of the knights from Redcliffe like Ser Perth, it seems miserable that this wasn't allowed for in the game, other than the obvious BW and DG plus any other writers.

 

Riordan argues that three Wardens in all of Ferelden are too few, so he proposes to get a fourth -Loghain. Seems still like a small number to me. If he truly wished to balance things out he'd have to find more promising recruits like Ser Perth -as ell46 states.

Now, the Joining (or Death) of Loghain only has an insignificant meaning as a plot twist. Because if Loghain joins, Alistair checks out. So the tally -that Riordan wanted to change- remains the same as before. Pretty lame, really.

(I only sided twice with Loghain; once as goody two-shoes mage, who believed in forgiveness and redemption -she also allowed Jowan to confront Connor's demon. The other time was simply to spite Alistair.)

[RustyBlade]

Loghain took the blood so it would stand to reason he would give it back; otherwise he would be killed outright as his options are do the joining or die.

 

That would make Loghain one mighty hypocrite. If he truly wanted to see the Wardens destroyed, he should've simply destroyed the blood so no more potential Wardens could be put through the Joining.

 

It is quite probable that Loghain had no idea that the substance in whatever container it was in, was archdemon blood. It's not like the wardens had a handy dandy dymo label maker and even if it was in some kind of ornate "labeled" container it would most likely be in the same type of code that the ritual itself was written in to protect its secrets. Loghain would have used the logic that if it was worth saving and stashing then it must have value and would not have destroyed it. Pure BS speculation on my part but it is plausible.

[ell46]

It's just BW and the writers, forcing players down roads they don't want to go and please don't anyone start on about life being hard and the choices we have to make, because I don't play 'fantasy' games to relive life's * I do it to get away from all that, at least for a few hours a day.

 

Perhaps we should be discussing what the writers where thinking when they wrote the story and the script and what got up some ones nose that made them want to write it the way it is.

[RustyBlade]

Perhaps we should be discussing what the writers where thinking when they wrote the story and the script and what got up some ones nose that made them want to write it the way it is.

 

They were off their meds? :whistling: Had some bad sushi and did a quick finish so they could go sell some Buicks? :sick:

I'm betting it's a plot hole they completely overlooked or they figured no one would catch it.

 

[Thandal]

I always figured (ok, explained it away with...)

 

"You know that vial of the Joining Ceremony Blood? The one that Alistair tells you they always collect and give to those who survive 'To remember those who didn't.' In a pinch that could be used to Join at least one more, so every Warden has a way to ensure that s/he is not the last!" (Well, until that one IS the last, having drunk the vial of the one before. ;D )

 

After the Landsmeet duel/battle Riordan should have access to three such vials: his own, Alistair's, and yours. And at least two, if you want to believe his was taken from him by Howe and not recovered.

[ell46]

I've just done a play through without the romance and I thought it was the most miserable game I've ever played. When I stopped for breaks or bedtime I felt really down most of the time and didn't want to think or plan for when I resumed the game, in fact I often went to make coffee and didn't bother playing for the rest of the evening.

 

Perhaps they should have given all the different story starts and finishes a miss and concentrated more on the game.

[RustyBlade]

The only time no romance really works is if you are using my DA: Kids mod, then it seems right and with that mod you're too busy trying to get your sides to stop hurting from the lolz due to the dialogue coming out of the mouths of babes to even miss the romance.

[ell46]

The only time no romance really works is if you are using my DA: Kids mod, then it seems right and with that mod you're too busy trying to get your sides to stop hurting from the lolz due to the dialogue coming out of the mouths of babes to even miss the romance.

 

I was wondering about that, have you changed the loot to 'sweets' if I was a kid again, I'd want sweets?

 

I actually found romance very easy to ignore, romance mods are un-installed any that are running for some fixes that throw up those type of dialogue I don't bother with those replies or questions. I don't have any attachment to any particular member of the party now other than I feel comfortable with them and I know how each of them fight in given situations and if there was DLC that I could take them all with me I would rather than get used to new ones.

Edited December 2, 2010 by ell46