spoiler Witch Hunt disappointment

[sacredtrojanblade]

@sacred; So it sounds like several of the aspects of Dragon Age that those who like it... like, are the aspects that hold no interest for you: multiple origins, multiple classes, character development, including, (perhaps even primarily) of the NPCs, and DLC that provides self-contained mini-adventures.

I do love character development including related npcs. It's the development that bond me to the character and his companions as well. Thus, killing them or replacing them is not something I look forward. I also love to have multiple classes ( such as champion + spirit warrior + guardian ) but if that mean I have to have multi origins with same game mechanicsm and/or environment then yes...it's not my preferance.

 

If I'm simply to look for few hours action+rpg without concern for the character I've developed and grow fond of, to be honest, there're a lot of console games out there that can do far better job than Dragon Age. Dragon Age has interesting interaction bewteen npcs, that's true but what good it is when they are short live? As I recall, NWN has the longevity magic which hook me to NWN2 and now Dragon Age. I can see it's no longer of major concern ( although the toolset are still there for me to extend my own story until the day that new engine and better graphic arrives ) and it's such a dissapointment.

 

As for D2, yes, I'm giving it a pass. My journey was with the warden and not about Hawke. Furthermore, I'm not going to have another character to be ended yet again. I do that everytime with consoles games. Something I do not expect from a moddable and import ability of a PC game. I'm interested with rumor about Morrigan's story in D3 ( I expected my warden would not be there but I'm curious if Bioware ever think of something new ) but my primary interest is still the toolset and graphics. If either one of this isn't in Bioware's mind then I would better spending my money for other console games titles.

 

And Dragon Age is definately not in my console games list for action and/or rpg.

 

Thanks.

Edited November 22, 2010 by sacredtrojanblade

[RustyBlade]

I also love to have multiple classes but if that mean I have to have multi origins with same game mechanicsm and/or environment then yes...

 

I might be misunderstanding you here but you don't have to use the other origins to play as different races/classes, you can use the All Origins Playable mod, you can change classes with the console and you can do just about anything you want with the toolset. I have played the human origin as an elf and a mage, I have played both elf origins as a mage and I have done them all with a child character.

 

As for WH I uninstalled it, not so much because I didn't like the outcome but because I don't want to uninstall most of my mods to get it to work.

[sacredtrojanblade]

I might be misunderstanding you here but you don't have to use the other origins to play as different races/classes, you can use the All Origins Playable mod, you can change classes with the console and you can do just about anything you want with the toolset. I have played the human origin as an elf and a mage, I have played both elf origins as a mage and I have done them all with a child character.

 

Lol. I'm aware of that. I haven't done that yet..... well probably because it's not supposed to be. Hahahaha

 

Anyway, now that you mention that, I might give it a try.

 

Thanks for the suggestion.

[brokenergy]

So all the sacrifices, hard choices and experiences throughout the game are as good as dead horse too? What about import feature + extendable module meant for custom adventures? Are they for dragging a dead horse too? That is one very encouraging way to put. Out of several different epilogues I've came across, I can see only one dead horse ( epilogue ) though. That's happen if the player choose the ultimate sacrifice.

 

When did I stated that choices didn't matter? I stated that the warden's story ended at Origins and was dragged out. This is evident in the expansion. Besides, it's all about the continent known as Thedas during the age known as Dragon Age just like TES is all about Tamriel.

 

Nor did they write "follow the Dragon story to the bitter end" or "Dragon Age" as it was advertised. So far all the dragons are meant to be slayed. The archdeamon, the high dragon.. nothing to suggest Dragon Age. The Origin barely mention the old god and the dragons. The world introduction? What's good does it do when it's too become part of dead horse experience? So what's there to look for?.

 

It was called Origins because it was the beginning. People can interpret the word how ever they like but know that there are books that depict what happens before Origins. Dragon Age is the age named after the Blessed Age and was given as the age of turmoil. The whole "spiritual successor of BG" was nothing more than a marketing gimmick.

 

So am I suppose to read about him before purchasing the game? Didn't Alistair said to the mabari, "Ignorant is a bliss. Thats what they teach me in the chantry"?

 

http://blog.bioware.com/2010/02/

 

Enjoy

 

We still face that same old 'dilemma' about having our enemy as our ally while convieniently loosing the ones we already had. That's kind of experiece is getting cliche'.

 

Loghain was never you enemy in the first place, the Archdemon was. You are a Grey Warden and your task is to stop the Blight by all means necessary and that means recruiting one of the most brilliant generals in Thedas.

 

I never even try to play any other races or even as a mage for as long as I can remember. The dwarves are short, stocky and clumsy. The elves are child's look and thin. It's amazed me how they could even raise a great sword without loosing their balance. No offence for dwarven and elven fans. They are good to have around but definately not for me when it come to role play.

 

Too bad, you are missing out a lot of interesting content, who am I kidding you only missed out on a one hour playthough that has nothing to do with story whatsoever. At least DA2 is to your liking, you can play as human.

 

Well.. That's very disappointing.. Again.

 

If all your above comments are true then there is nothing for me to expect from D3. ( D2 is certainly out the moment I read about Hawke ) I love Bioware toolset and mods though. So if you find they implement new cutting technology for graphics and better toolset, do kindly tell me.

 

Thanks.

 

They are using the same engine as DA and are looking at ways to allow people to mod in DA2. They don't have to give the toolset overnight, that's the last thing in their minds right now. They are currently doing final touches before the game is locked for the QA. Once that is done, they will try to convert their tools to improve or make a new toolset, which could be months after release. And the graphics has improved from Origins, you just need to see the latest trailer and pics.

Edited November 22, 2010 by brokenergy

[sacredtrojanblade]

When did I stated that choices didn't matter? I stated that the warden's story ended at Origins and was dragged out. This is evident in the expansion. Besides, it's all about the continent known as Thedas during the age known as Dragon Age just like TES is all about Tamriel.

It's ended because Bioware's tendacy to end anything in their story after offering several choices and a fine statement like, "But that's another tale to tell." They did that in NWN series too. They should have focus on introducing part and creates several related main quests which later tied together into one epic story telling after several releases. But Nooo.. They are just too eager to save the world leaving no room at all for expansion.

 

The world of TES is a journey of a single character who has the freedom to explore as much as possible. There's one main plot. But I normally ignore it because it's not about the main plot that drive me to play. It's about how I live in TES. It's people and the neighbourhood are like the sims living in fantasy environment with limited capabilty. It's open ended for me. Anything is possible as long as I do not end it by completing the main plot.

 

A world of DA however is a journey of multiple dead horses who keep having be killed by Bioware. A world with only one city, a castle, a village, a cave, a tower and an elf settlement. It's hardly called a world. It's rely solely on story telling to drive the players. ( For me, the toolset. Bioware toolset is much friendly than TES constructor ) Otherwise the player has nothing to do. But then, they just love to end it. And that's one huge difference with TES.

 

The whole "spiritual successor of BG" was nothing more than a marketing gimmick.

Exactly. So there is nothing wrong with "warden age" thing either. It's pointless to argue what the title says.

 

http://blog.bioware.com/2010/02/

Thank you. Maybe I'll knock his door sometime to see if he has anything new. If he lack of ideas, I have a lot of them. crazy ones. Muahahaha.

 

 

 

Loghain was never you enemy in the first place, the Archdemon was.

Ammon Jarro was never your enemy in the first place too. In fact he's much better than Loghain. At least Ammon Jarro did attempt to stop the shadow king from the beginning while Loghain was shown as a chicken running from battlefield. If he's such a great general he should have archive a decisive winning strategy. They are only outnumbered 3 to 1 and they have Ostagar as advantage. Many times in history, Julius Caesar army were badly outnumbered + starvation + cold but still he won the day. Now that's a great general. When it's come to survival, there is no such thing as unrealistic plan. No great general ever desert his king either. But so much for Loghain, the one who was once known as Ferelden hero, huh?

 

Anwyway, that's not the point. The point is they are both your enemies. periode.

 

 

You are a Grey Warden and your task is to stop the Blight by all means necessary and that means recruiting one of the most brilliant generals in Thedas.

"By all mean" is subjective. But yeah pretty much the same concept in NWN 2 too except there're choices to make. Ammon Jarro was forced to player. It's getting boring and annoying. Come on, surely there must be other interesting element to add to story lines? Why resort to same old trick and dilemma?

 

Too bad, you are missing out a lot of interesting content, who am I kidding you only missed out on a one hour playthough that has nothing to do with story whatsoever. At least DA2 is to your liking, you can play as human.

Interesting is subjective. I do not enjoy having weird physical and short. I do not find it's interesting that height prevent me from kissing Morrigan. I do not enjoy seeing a child's like and slender figure having relationship with my romance interest. I do not enjoy seeing this same figure head on an ogre. Nor do I enjoy having to leap the entire combat just to reach the enemy's belly. It's just weird. Do I miss their contents? Not at all. But thanks to RustyBlade I could play both dwarven and eleven origins as human anyway.

 

But yeah I like the human aspect in D2 and no, I don't like having to start all over with Hawke. So I'm not going to spend on Hawke unless there is toolset to look forward. Sorry Hawke, if you appear in Origins I would definitely going to have fun with you.

 

Thank you.

Edited November 23, 2010 by sacredtrojanblade

[brokenergy]

It's ended because Bioware's tendacy to end anything in their story after offering several choices and a fine statement like, "But that's another tale to tell." They did that in NWN series too. They should have focus on introducing part and creates several related main quests which later tied together into one epic story telling after several releases. But Nooo.. They are just too eager to save the world leaving no room at all for expansion.

 

BioWare makes stories the main priority. Stories have to be tight and coherent or they risk dragging it on pointlessly, it's one of the golden rules of storytelling. The only instance that BioWare continues with a single main character is ME and that's a different beast as it is one giant threat which is the sole focus of the series. BioWare compensates freedom of the player for the story. Also NWN is a not a good example of a series seeing as two different companies made two different games that have no relation to one another.

 

The world of TES is a journey of a single character who has the freedom to explore as much as possible. There's one main plot. But I normally ignore it because it's not about the main plot that drive me to play. It's about how I live in TES. It's people and the neighbourhood are like the sims living in fantasy environment with limited capabilty. It's open ended for me. Anything is possible as long as I do not end it by completing the main plot.

 

See that's the reason why I hate sandbox. You lose the urgency of the main plot in place of confined freedom. You also didn't get my point about the relation to TES. Storytelling wise, TES is no different to DA with different protagonist. Gameplay, they are different as BioWare compensate freedom for story. You could go to RedCliffe for instance in the WH but it is useless for propelling the story as it has no relation to the small plot. Again BioWare compensates freedom of the player for the story.

 

A world of DA however is a journey of multiple dead horses who keep having be killed by Bioware. A world with only one city, a castle, a village, a cave, a tower and an elf settlement. It's hardly called a world. It's rely solely on story telling to drive the players. ( For me, the toolset. Bioware toolset is much friendly than TES constructor ) Otherwise the player has nothing to do. But then, they just love to end it. And that's one huge difference with TES.

 

Your main gripe is that you want more freedom like TES. The problem is that BioWare focuses on tight storytelling and how they "solve it" is by giving player choices where as you have no major choice to follow in TES.

 

Ammon Jarro was never your enemy in the first place too. In fact he's much better than Loghain. At least Ammon Jarro did attempt to stop the shadow king from the beginning while Loghain was shown as a chicken running from battlefield. If he's such a great general he should have archive a decisive winning strategy. They are only outnumbered 3 to 1 and they have Ostagar as advantage. Many times in history, Julius Caesar army were badly outnumbered + starvation + cold but still he won the day. Now that's a great general. When it's come to survival, there is no such thing as unrealistic plan. No great general ever desert his king either. But so much for Loghain, the one who was once known as Ferelden hero, huh?

 

I could spend hours talking about Loghain but I'm not going to waste it here, seeing as it is off topic.

 

"By all mean" is subjective. But yeah pretty much the same concept in NWN 2 too except there're choices to make. Ammon Jarro was forced to player. It's getting boring and annoying. Come on, surely there must be other interesting element to add to story lines? Why resort to same old trick and dilemma?

 

Because they work? Or because the is no logical way of allowing the player's "supposed enemy" to join without either being forced or allowed choice.

 

Interesting is subjective. I do not enjoy having weird physical and short. I do not find it's interesting that height prevent me from kissing Morrigan. I do not enjoy seeing a child's like and slender figure having relationship with my romance interest. I do not enjoy seeing this same figure head on an ogre. Nor do I enjoy having to leap the entire combat just to reach the enemy's belly. It's just weird.

 

Seeing as we are going off topic, we can close this off by stating that my RPG style is different to yours. Height differences meant nothing to me seeing that I'm short in real life and I have a younger brother who is taller than me. Do I find it strange? A bit. Do I mind or care? No, I don't. But we have diverged too much from the main topic, I suggest that you make a topic in the off-topics or DA general if you are hell bent to talk about this issue as it is off topic.

Edited November 23, 2010 by brokenergy

[sacredtrojanblade]

We are off topic because you insist your view on what's suppose to be my preferance. You are driven by story plot to make to you do anything ingame. Therefore, character continuity isn't an issue as long as the story goes. DLCs and any extensions such as WH serve you no purpose. You refuse to the see beyond Origins as the story already end. You are not not the one who end it. I can understand that. Trust me, I love NWM stories. But these stories are getting repetitive. They are losing their touch. You fail to see that because you have little care of many hours gained through your character development. You do not live through your character experience to feel the bond beyond that pixels. Instead what you did is just hearing a bard tale, ready to go to bed when it's over and start all over again listening to the same old story again and again with every game releases. Same tales of saving your world, having your enemy as allies, building fortress, defending a siege, slavery, mind controlling bla bla bla.... Same old tiring cliche borrowed from the start of Neverwinter Night. I have repeatedly suggest for a change. I have ask for open ended stories. I would like my warden to continue the tales with improved graphic and toolset. And here you're, arguing the dead horses, games title, your comparison with TES, your favor of short term unrelated yet repetitive bard tales and insisting on what you expect as interesting. The main question is, does WH is disappointment. My answer remains yes because

 

1. ) It's should not be ended

 

2.) It's ending is too cheap.

 

3.) Bioware lack of creativity and poor writings.

 

Seeing as we are going off topic, we can close this off by stating that my RPG style is different to yours. Height differences meant nothing to me seeing that I'm short in real life and I have a younger brother who is taller than me. Do I find it strange? A bit. Do I mind or care? No, I don't. But we have diverged too much from the main topic, I suggest that you make a topic in the off-topics or DA general if you are hell bent to talk about this issue as it is off topic.

You see.. Aren't you the one who insist on what's suppose to be interesting?

 

As I said, Your interest is hearing bard tales. My interest is about my character. Your need bard tales to play. I need only toolset and freedom to forge my own world and fantasies. ( Thanks to Bioware for making me bore with their writings ) Your interest is multi-role regardless of who you are in real life. My interest is about humanity, understanding and closeness to the character that should mirror my own self. You seeks short-term accomplishment. I seek long term meaningful experience, knowledge and skill.

 

You see again... we can never share the same interest. No person share exactly the same interest in everything. So please stop insisting your point of view.

 

Tranquil Owen once said. "A Person is unmeasurable. Therefore we can agree to disagree."

Edited November 23, 2010 by sacredtrojanblade

[RustyBlade]

All these dead horses being beaten, such carnage - will no one think of the foals? :rolleyes:

[Lehcar]

Well, I still hope Morrigan and the Warden's story doesn't end with the Dalish mirror... :(

[RustyBlade]

Do you mean the Eluvian? If so, it isn't Dalish, it is of Tevinter origin :tongue: