Ketsuban Posted November 25, 2010 Share Posted November 25, 2010 I'm rather perturbed by the state of bugfix modding for New Vegas - it's patchy and uncontrolled, and doesn't scale well for the future. I'm going to use a comparison with Oblivion; I know Oblivion has been out for a long time now, isn't getting patches anymore, and has had a lot of time to produce a bugfix mod to fix as many bugs as it can, but I'm not expecting a mod that fixes every bug in New Vegas; just that the lessons from Oblivion's modding history be remembered and taken into account. Oblivion has a single extremely detailed and comprehensive mod called the Unofficial Oblivion Patch which includes an extremely detailed set of notes which explain precisely what bugs are fixed. By comparison, New Vegas has a flurry of mods each of which fixes exactly one bug in an entirely ad-hoc manner. The closest thing to a compilation "fixes" things that aren't bugs - there's a reason the stuff in Doc Mitchell's house isn't tagged as owned; doesn't fix things which are more likely to be bugs - Easy Pete's belongings not being tagged are more likely to be accidental; includes an overhaul mod (FOOK); and looks to be obsessed with crediting everyone who ever wrote a mod to fix a single bug simply because they happened to get to it first (as if that counts as any sort of prize or is worthy of special mention). Is it too late to have someone produce a single Unofficial New Vegas Patch ESP which fixes many bugs and doesn't obsess with crediting whoever first wrote a mod to fix bug #9235 of 59363? Again, I'm not looking for completionism - just for a good foundation to expand on as more bugs come to light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasana Posted November 25, 2010 Share Posted November 25, 2010 I'm rather perturbed by the state of bugfix modding for New Vegas - it's patchy and uncontrolled, and doesn't scale well for the future. I'm going to use a comparison with Oblivion; I know Oblivion has been out for a long time now, isn't getting patches anymore, and has had a lot of time to produce a bugfix mod to fix as many bugs as it can, but I'm not expecting a mod that fixes every bug in New Vegas; just that the lessons from Oblivion's modding history be remembered and taken into account. Oblivion has a single extremely detailed and comprehensive mod called the Unofficial Oblivion Patch which includes an extremely detailed set of notes which explain precisely what bugs are fixed. By comparison, New Vegas has a flurry of mods each of which fixes exactly one bug in an entirely ad-hoc manner. The closest thing to a compilation "fixes" things that aren't bugs - there's a reason the stuff in Doc Mitchell's house isn't tagged as owned; doesn't fix things which are more likely to be bugs - Easy Pete's belongings not being tagged are more likely to be accidental; includes an overhaul mod (FOOK); and looks to be obsessed with crediting everyone who ever wrote a mod to fix a single bug simply because they happened to get to it first (as if that counts as any sort of prize or is worthy of special mention). Is it too late to have someone produce a single Unofficial New Vegas Patch ESP which fixes many bugs and doesn't obsess with crediting whoever first wrote a mod to fix bug #9235 of 59363? Again, I'm not looking for completionism - just for a good foundation to expand on as more bugs come to light. You are jumping the gun a bit, and also drawing the wrong conclusions for the wrong reasons in some instances. First, the UOP, didn't come out in the first month of the release of Oblivion. It took a few months - around 4 months before the initial release. We are barely past the first 30 days of NV. So chill. There is already a "community patch" fixing bugs that the official one hasn't. Second, we already got an official patch in the first few weeks fixing many errors. Rendering some fixes in the "community patch", obsolete. Third, it sounds like we are getting another official big bugfix patch here in the next couple weeks if not sooner. Fourth, many "bug fix" patches are waiting to see what the next official patch does, so they don't waste time modding something that is going to be fixed soon anyway. Fifth, we are getting official patches for bugs, so far, much faster than we did for Oblivion or FO3. Sixth, you can do something like what I do, and just gather the fixes yourself in one mod, as many of the fixes are quite simplistic in their nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamatsudash Posted November 25, 2010 Share Posted November 25, 2010 (edited) and looks to be obsessed with crediting everyone who ever wrote a mod to fix a single bug simply because they happened to get to it first (as if that counts as any sort of prize or is worthy of special mention). Actually, that's done because the original mod got taken down off Nexus because the original creator hadn't properly requested permission to use those mods in the compilation mod they were creating. After this happened the mod creator went to lengths to get proper permission to use these mods in the compilation, at some point during this they handed the mod over to someone else - which is why the mod "information" page is displayed the way it is. That is why there is a big list of credited mods - not because there's some race to be the 1st to fix bugs or trophy to being named, but because the compilation mod directly incorporates other mods into it.. and Nexus rules state you need permission to do that (whether by asking for permission, or mod author giving it freely). Edited November 25, 2010 by kamatsudash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukichigai Posted December 1, 2010 Share Posted December 1, 2010 As someone who is releasing some of these bugfixes, let me put in my two cents. The reason why I release ad hoc patches is because the amount of bugs in this game is HUGE. I do try to combine patches by loose association, e.g. Nipton Fixes, McCarran Fixes, etc., but if I were to patch everything at once it would be MONTHS before a release would come out. As it is my ad hoc releases can be merged into the larger community pach as they come out. And yes, I am waiting for the upcoming official patch before I release some kind of accumulated bugfix mod. Hopefully a lot of my fixes will be rendered unnecessary. Also, as was already pointed out, the community bugfix compilation HAS TO include mention of every change and who wrote it. It's not optional, due to legal concerns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Povuholo Posted December 2, 2010 Share Posted December 2, 2010 I think It's not too late to start an unofficial patch, it's too early. Some hotfixes are nice, but before a comprehensive patch project is started I think we need to wait for Obsidian to release at least the first big patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starsickle Posted December 4, 2010 Share Posted December 4, 2010 Just wanted to chime in - the ad-hoc fixes are something I expected. There are tons of mods out there - I really wish the community would pull together something substantial so the game is worth buying, because as it is, it's not worth the price I'd pay for a new game, especially when it features bugs that have existed since oblivion with only a few token features ripped straight from this very community. Until there's some substantial bugfixing, a lower price, and some large mods on the order of FO3 current big ones, I can't say I want to invest in a game that took a quarter of the money to make at full retail price. Yukichigai is mostly right, though - incremental development should be more widely used, but the Ad-hocracy should be avoided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extacide Posted December 4, 2010 Share Posted December 4, 2010 Speaking of an unofficial patch, is there any thread on the forums devoted to organizing all known bugs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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