Problem with NBaio and Nude Variety v4

[Ambrya]

I seem to have stumbled across a bug with Nude Variety v4. I had PMed the author about the problem, but he doesn't appear to have responded to any posts for his mod since September, and since it's a holiday weekend, I thought I would throw this out there for anyone else who might know what is going on.

 

The backstory is this. I have some custom meshes that were made for me that I wanted to use on my PC but not on other human females in the game. I used the instructions found here to add the custom meshes to NBaio and they got carried over into NVariety just fine when I installed it. So I configured NBaio for what my default human females should be, and then configured my PC in Nvariety to use the custom meshes. What I discovered was that my custom meshes were being applied to all human females.

 

Thinking maybe I screwed up somewhere along the way, I uninstalled and deleted everything associated with both mods, then reinstalled NBaio and started from scratch. After some testing and experimentation, it turns out that the problem has nothing to do with my custom meshes.

 

Here are the detailed notes I took describing my process step-by-step:

 

STEP 01:

Install and configure default NBaio and test.

Result = OK No apparent problems.

 

 

STEP 02:

Add custom mesh files to NBaio/Variants/HF directory:

 

STEP 03:

Add custom meshes to NBaio OverrideConfig.xml. Test result.

Result = OK PC (and presumably any other nude human female in-game) receives custom meshes.

 

 

STEP 04:

Run Nude Variety v4 tool, importing NBaio, to create an override for PC and NPCs. Make Leliana configurable in NVariety, but DO NOT make Wynne configurable in NVariety v4. Wynne should be getting default human female settings so that I have one controllable NPC on which I can test nude and clothed meshes in NBaio.

 

 

STEP 05:

Configure NVariety v4 in DAOModManager for PC and Leliana and test.

Result = FAILURE

PC settings are being applied to Wynne also. Wynne (who should be getting the default human female settings from NBaio) is getting the settings configured for the PC from NVariety. Leliana, who has her own configuration settings in NVariety, does not appear to be affected.

 

 

STEP 06:

Run experiment: Are human females only getting PC configurations when the last OverrideConfig.xml adjustments were done on the PC in NVariety? Is the PC getting default human female settings when the last OverrideConfig adjustments were done to human female in NBaio?

Result = FAILURE

Even if the NBaio OverrideConfig.xml is the last one altered in DAOModManager, the PC configuration from NVariety overrides the default Human Female configuration from NBaio.

 

 

STEP 07:

Run experiment to see if this problem applies to all meshes. (Give default human female and PC vastly different configurations, neither of which is a custom mesh. I chose "RL Fashion Giant Breast(xx)" for human females in NBaio and "Human shemale soft huge" for PC in Nvariety.)

Result - Confirmed

Both my PC and Wynne got the shemale model that should only have been applied to the PC model. This problem only appears to apply to the body mesh and not to textures. Wynne and PC had different leg textures (PC had Greek sandals, Wynne didn't.)

 

 

STEP 08:

Roll back to Step 1 and DO NOT ADD custom meshes. Install NVariety over standard, UNCHANGED NBaio and see if problem persists. If so, the issue has nothing to do with custom meshes, but is a problem with NVariety and NBaio together.

Result - Confirmed

The problem has nothing to do with the custom meshes. Even without custom meshes, with a fresh install of both mods, the problem persists.

 

 

 

I don't have savegames for other races/sexes to see if this problem is only with human females or if it applies to everyone. It doesn't appear to apply to the other textures you can choose for the human female in NBaio and NVariety, only to the body mesh.

 

Any idea how I can fix this problem?

[Thandal]

STEP 01:

Result = OK No apparent problems.

STEP 02:

STEP 03:

Result = OK PC (and presumably any other nude human female in-game) receives custom meshes.

STEP 04:

STEP 05:

Result = FAILURE

STEP 06:

Result = FAILURE

STEP 07:

Result - Confirmed

STEP 08:

Result - Confirmed

Wow, very thorough experimentation and description! Kudos to ya' for that.

 

I had a VERY similar: "Why doesn't NV4 seem to be working properly?" event just this week. I wasn't using any custom meshes, but still there were unexpected applications of the various options. In my case the the problem was two-fold.

 

First: It had been so long since I had changed anyone's appearance this way that I forgot all about having to use the "Potion of Transforrmation". :laugh: My initial frustration increased dramatically when uninstalling NV4 completely resulted in the game crashing immediately upon loading a save. :ohmy: :wallbash: Only then did I go back to the readme and have my facepalm moment. :whistling:

 

Second: Depending on which order I did things, (and I wasn't as good about recording the procedures as you were) simply removing the currently equipped armour seemed to display the previously designated body model. I had to swap the armour with (any) other, then remove it, to obtain the expected "new" form.

 

Much happier now that I have a decidely distinct appearance for all the NPCs I have any reason to encounter in less than their small clothes, and a "not-quite-so-happy-to-see-me" look for other males (Cailan, in particular!) :thumbsup:

[Ambrya]

 

Wow, very thorough experimentation and description! Kudos to ya' for that.

 

 

Thank you.

 

The reason I took such thorough notes was because this was my second time attempting this process, and the first time I had eventually lost track of what options I tried made things work for both the PC and all other human females, and what made it so things didn't work with any of them.

 

My problem actually began when I tried to enable NVariety to use custom light armor and noble clothing meshes by adding the following code to OverrideConfig.xml (which had worked just fine in NBaio, except, of course, for the fact that it was being applied to every human female in light armor or noble clothing and I only wanted it on my PC:)

 

   <Key_7 Name="Custom Light Armor" DefaultValue="Game Default" OriginalFile="hf_arm_lgt_0.msh">
     <Value_0 Value="Game Default" OptionsFile="(dao-default)hf_arm_lgt_0.msh" />
     <Value_1 Value="Custom Armor 1" OptionsFile="(custom-one)hf_arm_lgt_0.msh" />
     <Value_2 Value="Custom Armor 2" OptionsFile="(custom-two)hf_arm_lgt_0.msh" />
     <Value_3 Value="Custom Armor 3" OptionsFile="(custom-three)hf_arm_lgt_0.msh" />
     <Description>
 Custom Light Armor models
  </Description>
   </Key_7>
   <Key_8 Name="Custom Noble Clothes" DefaultValue="Game Default" OriginalFile="hf_cth_nbl_0.msh">
     <Value_0 Value="Game Default" OptionsFile="(dao-default)hf_cth_nbl_0.msh" />
     <Value_1 Value="Custom Clothes 1" OptionsFile="(custom-one)hf_cth_nbl_0.msh" />
     <Value_2 Value="Custom Clothes 2" OptionsFile="(custom-two)hf_cth_nbl_0.msh" />
     <Value_3 Value="Custom Clothes 3" OptionsFile="(custom-three)hf_cth_nbl_0.msh" />
     <Description>
  Custom Noble Clothing Models
  </Description>
   </Key_8>

 

When I added this code to the OverrideConfig.xml for NBaio and put the default meshes in the NBaio "Defaults/HF" folder and the custom meshes in the "Variants/HF" directory, it worked great. But it worked on every human female in light armor and noble clothes and I only wanted it on my PC.

 

So then I went through a trial-and-error process of taking that code out of NBaio entirely and only adding it to NVariety, adding it in both places but setting NBaio to use the game defaults and NVariety to use the custom meshes, and various other things. I was "testing" this process by standing in the marketplace in Denerim next to the Orlesian woman in the noble clothing, but of course I had no way to control her to test various things.

 

Eventually, I lost track of what attempt had produced which result. At that point I went back to a clean install and started over, taking detailed notes and leaving Wynne unaltered by NVariety so I had a human female NPC who SHOULD be using the default human female configuration over whom I had the control to try on various clothing and armor models.

 

I never even got to the stage where I added my custom armor and clothing meshes. The problem became apparent with the nude meshes, at which point I ran some tests without any custom meshes at all and found it was still there.

 

The GOOD news is that the mod author is still around. He responded to my PM and is aware of the bug. He's going to see what he can do about it.

 

 

I had a VERY similar: "Why doesn't NV4 seem to be working properly?" event just this week. I wasn't using any custom meshes, but still there were unexpected applications of the various options. In my case the the problem was two-fold.

 

First: It had been so long since I had changed anyone's appearance this way that I forgot all about having to use the "Potion of Transforrmation". :laugh:

 

 

I've had that moment. Wednesday night when I was first dinking around with all this, on my last attempt, the meshes that were supposed to be on my PC but not on any of the NPCs weren't even on my PC. So there I was the next day, chatting with the family before Thanksgiving dinner, when all of a sudden I have the ::foreheadsmack:: moment of "Why didn't I try to Potion of Transformation?" *sigh* So when I got home, that was the first thing I did. Unfortunately, it didn't work.

 

 

My initial frustration increased dramatically when uninstalling NV4 completely resulted in the game crashing immediately upon loading a save. :ohmy: :wallbash: Only then did I go back to the readme and have my facepalm moment. :whistling:

 

Been there and done that too.

 

Second: Depending on which order I did things, (and I wasn't as good about recording the procedures as you were) simply removing the currently equipped armour seemed to display the previously designated body model. I had to swap the armour with (any) other, then remove it, to obtain the expected "new" form.

 

Much happier now that I have a decidely distinct appearance for all the NPCs I have any reason to encounter in less than their small clothes, and a "not-quite-so-happy-to-see-me" look for other males (Cailan, in particular!) :thumbsup:

 

Hmm, interesting. I'll have to remember that.

[eltha]

I spent some time this afternoon looking into this problem, and I believe the problem only happens when permanent party members that you have recruited are not included in NVariety.

 

I tested on a Human Noble Female with Wynne and the temporary party members excluded from NVariety, and both mods worked fine before Wynne was recruited, but were glitchy after Wynne was recruited.

 

From before Wynne was recruited, I checked Eleanor (excluded from NVariety) in the origin, Leliana and Morrigan (both included in NVariety - both with and without using the potion on them), and the girls at the Pearl in Denerim, and they were all fine regardless of whether my PC had used the potion or not.

 

With Wynne recruited, I could no longer use the potion to revert my PC to the default model. After using the potion on my PC, Wynne used the same model as my PC. I could use the potion on Leliana and Morrigan to get their NVariety models, but when they were in the default state they also used my PC's model.

 

I reconfigured NVariety to include Wynne, and checked Leliana, Morrigan, Wynne (now all in NVariety), the girls at the Pearl and the human female corpse in Fort Drakon, and all were fine.

 

I also tested on a Human Noble Male PC in both the origin and Ostagar, and checked that the Ostagar prisoner (a live, non-party-member NPC), Dairren (a corpse), Daveth (temporary party member in NVariety), Jory (temporary party member not in NVariety) and Alistair (permanent party member in NVariety) all used the expected models - and it worked perfectly.

[Ambrya]

Thanks so much, Eltha! You are brilliant for tracking that down. I'm in the process of working to recreate your results and then seeing if adding the custom meshes I hope to add will be affect by this issue, or if my difficulty with them is due to something else entirely. Will keep you posted!

[Thandal]

Wow again! More super-detailed detective work. Tip-o'-my-hat to Eltha.

 

Not sure I'd I'm sure I WOULDN'T have had the patience after my recent (self-inflicted) NV4 head-basher! Kudos for helping AND reporting so thoroughly.

Edited November 27, 2010 by Thandal

[Ambrya]

Eltha rocks.

 

I just finished my attempts to recreate her results, and here's what I found (which seems to differ slightly to what she found.)

 

 

 

First, I am going to try to replicate her experience when she excluded Wynne.

 

STEP 01:

Clean install of NBaio and NVariety with no custom meshes (uninstalled and deleted all existing materials from DAO directories and DAOModManager, emptied recycle bin, restarted computer) excluding Wynne and Eleanor Cousland from NVariety. Configure default human females in NBaio, and configure Leliana, Morrigan and PC in NVariety to different meshes that are easily distinguishable from one-another.

 

Human female config in NBaio (should apply to Eleanor and Wynne): NB Big Breast

Leliana config in NVariety: NB banana belt

Morrigan config in NVariety: NB Small Breast

PC config in NVariety: NB100 Pregnant

 

 

 

STEP 02:

Test in Castle Cousland with PC and Eleanor Cousland in party with Eleanor and PC.

Does Potion of Transformation work on PC? Does Eleanor Cousland maintain her default NBaio appearance, or does she take on PCs appearance?

 

RESULT:

Before using Potion of Transformation, both have NB Big Breast appearance as configured in NBaio.

After using Potion of Transformation, PC has NB100 Pregnant mesh, Eleanor Cousland has NB Big Breast mesh.

 

 

 

STEP 03:

Test in party with PC, Wynne, Leliana, and Morrigan at the Pearl. (Leliana and Morrigan and PC should be configured in NVariety. Wynne and human female prostitute should have NBaio configuration.)

 

A) Do Morrigan, Leliana and Wynne work as expected before using Potion on anyone?

RESULT:

NO. When taking off clothing, Morrigan and Wynne do not have the meshes they are supposed to have. HOWEVER, this seems to vary depending on which character is selected and removes clothing first.

 

If Morrigan or Wynne are the first characters to remove their clothing, they both have the NBaio-configured human female default mesh (using Potion of Transformation on Morrigan will work to change her to her configured NVariety mesh.)

 

If Leliana is the first to be stripped, Morrigan and Wynne have her mesh (using Potion of Transformation on Morrigan will work to change her to her configured NVariety mesh.)

 

If the PC is the first, Morrigan and Wynne appear to have her mesh (using Potion of Transformation on Morrigan will work to change her to her configured NVariety mesh.)

 

Whoever is subsequent in the order of clothing removal seems to have no affect. Morrigan and Wynne take on the NVariety-configured mesh of whoever was FIRST to be stripped of her gear.

 

If clothing is put back on and then removed again, Wynne and Morrigan will take on the mesh of whichever character was the first to be stripped in the second round of clothing removal.

 

 

B) Testing Potion of Transformation:

Using Option 1 on the potion will give PC, Leliana and Morrigan their correct NVariety appearance no matter who was the first to strip.

 

Using Option 2 (revert to default) will give PC, Leliana and Morrigan the appearance of whichever character was the first one stripped, NOT the NBaio human female default.

 

If Wynne was the first one stripped, this means they do actually revert to the NBaio default, since Wynne is not configured in NVariety.

 

If Morrigan was the first one stripped, it will also revert to NBaio default. Unlike Leliana and the PC, she starts with the NBaio default and requires the Potion of Transformation to take on her NVariety settings.

 

 

C) Does using potion on PC, Leliana or Morrigan correct or change Wynne's mesh?

RESULT:

No. Wynne retains the mesh of the first character stripped, regardless of who uses the potion afterward.

 

 

 

D) Does female human prostitute work as expected?

Result: No.

 

If PC is fully clothed before engaging the prostitute, both PC and prostitute have NBaio default configurations, even though PC should have NVariety configuration instead.

 

If PC is stripped before engaging the prostitute, both PC and prostitute have PC's configuration.

 

If Leliana is stripped before PC engages the prostitute, both PC and prostitute will have Leliana's configuration.

 

If Morrigan is stipped and transformed with potion before engaging the prostitute, both PC and prostitute will have Morrigan's NVariety configuration.

 

 

 

STEP 04: Clean install of NBaio and NVariety. This time, configure all permanent NPC companions in NVariety, using distinctly different configurations for each female.

 

NBaio human female default: RL Fashion Giant Breasts(xx)

Leliana: NB100 banana-belt

Morrigan: RL Fashion Tiny Breast(aa)

PC: NB100 Pregnant

Wynne: Human shemale soft huge

 

 

STEP 05:

Test strip order.

RESULT: Seems to work the same as when Wynne wasn't configured in NVariety. Wynne and Morrigan default to the mesh of whoever was the first to be stripped. If it was Wynne or Morrigan who was stripped first, they use to the NBaio Human Female setting and can be converted to their NVariety settings by using the Potion of Transformation.

 

 

STEP 06:

Test Pearl scene.

RESULT: same as when Wynne wasn't configured in NVariety. Both the HF prostitute and the PC use the NBaio-configured HF mesh, unless the PC or one of the companion NPCs strips and (in Wynne and Morrigan's case) uses the Potion of Transformation first. In that case, both the PC and the prostitute will use the mesh of whoever stripped first before the PC selected the prostitute.

 

 

STEP 07:

Test: After Potion of Transformation is used on Wynne and Morrigan, when characters strip next, will they be reverted to "first strip" settings?

RESULT: No. Once they use the Potion of Transformation, after their next strip, they retain their NVariety settings.

 

 

STEP 08:

Test: If Potion of Transformation is used before stripping, will stripped NPCs have the correct body upon being stripped?

RESULT: Yes, even if PC or Leliana is stripped first, Morrigan and Wynne had the correct meshes.

 

 

STEP 09:

Test: Does HF prostitute have correct NBaio default HF mesh if Potion of Transformation is used on PC and all companion NPCs before engaging prostitute, so long as they haven't stripped?

RESULT: Yes. However, PC also has NBaio default texture (rather than the PC's NVariety-configured texture) during and after cutscene with prostitute. If you use the Potion of Transformation and then strip the PC/Companion NPCs, the prostitute will have the mesh of the first character stripped, but the PC will retain her own mesh.

 

 

 

So, um, yeah. This is a bit weird, but hopefully this will help the mod author--or any other interested parties--figure out how to fix the mod so that these "first stripped" issues don't cause anymore problems.

[Thandal]

Ok, I didn't take notes, so I can't given a blow-by-blow, but just had the full experience of "Certain characters get the NBaio defaults for their race and gender, while others get the appropriate NV4 settings, all concerned were theoretically customizable via NV4." This was ONLY during cutscenes, not when their apparel was being controlled directly.

 

Not sure what the exact triggers or correctives were. But using MULTIPLE trips to Denerim (NPCs can't use the Potion of Transformation in Camp!) and multiple in-and-out of SOMETHING to wear while at the Market, (not back at Camp) I was able to give all the possible participants in a Camp romance their own unique look when they take off their armour. Colors, trims, and sizes, for both males and females, all different, and all able to "stick" through cutscenes ("BCS for DT", both M & Z, to be specific.)

 

But...

 

a) I also experienced mutilple instances of "invisible articles" (Zev's coif and Leli's entire body but NOT her head) at various times. (Just kept changing clothes and quaffing the brew while going back-n-forth between Camp and Market. Seemed to get fixed the second time around and then STAY fixed.)

 

b) Did NOT have Wynne recruited yet.

[Ambrya]

I've been PMing back and forth with the author of the NV4 mod and she/he seems to figured out at least some of the difficulty we were having:

 

Ok, I think I have this figured out:

On entering the Pearl, all characters inside are loaded into memory. This does not include the prostitutes as they aren't there at the time; they will be loaded once you select a dialogue option with Sanga. If, at the point where the nude human female prostitute is loaded, the mesh for a nude human female is already loaded to memory, that one will be used.

-When going into the cutscene with a fully dressed party, no nude human female mesh is loaded to memory: the prostitute's nude HF model is loaded from file. Now the game undresses your PC, and as there is now a nude HF mesh loaded, that one is used. -> both prostitute and PC use the default model.

-Going into the cutscene with the PC undressed, a nude HF model is already in memory when the prostitute is loaded -> both prostitute and PC use the PC model.

-With a dressed PC and an undressed human female party member, the prostitute uses the model of that party member, as does the PC.

 

Long story short: it's how the game works, and sadly there's nothing I can do about it.

 

 

Some of the problems I described over the weekend were due to the fact that, in the savegame I was running my tests in, I had previously used the Potion of Transformation on my PC and Leliana but NOT on Wynne and Morrigan, which was why they were acquiring the NBaio default bodies if they were stripped first, or the body of the first other character stripped if they were stripped after someone else who had used the Potion.

 

Once I went back and started running tests on a savegame where no one had used the Potion of Transformation yet, it was much less confusing and I was able to get a better grasp on how things were working. The most reliable way to see the results I wanted was to get all four females in a group, all fully clothed, and have them each use the Potion. Then when I stripped them, they were all exactly how they were supposed to be.

 

Due to the issues quoted above, this is always going to be a problem in a scene like the Peal, where unless you strip your PC first, both toons end up with the default NBaio body (though I must say, it's quite amusing to put the NB100 pregnant mesh on your toon, strip first, then hire the prostitute, and then have a visibly pregnant prostitute say, "It's my first time. Really!")

 

But since I was only using the Pearl scene for testing purposes I'm not that worried. Especially since I COMPLETELY LOSE my inventory after the Pearl scene. Not just my clothes, but everything in my bags, meaning I have to revert to a savegame anyway.

 

I do wonder how this would affect a sex cutscene with a HF PC and Leliana, but I haven't had a chance to test that.

 

So anyway, mystery is kinda-solved. It's not NV4 so much as it is just the way the game works.

[Ambrya]

All right, so I just ran some tests with the camp sex cutscenes (modded cutscenes, not vanilla, since vanilla rarely shows anything below the shoulders) and yeah, the game loads the NBaio default mesh rather than the NVariety mesh for the characters unless you strip them first.

 

That's very disappointing. It would totally break immersion to have to strip your characters before launching the cutscene. (Of course, I might have to do that anyway; last time I tested a cutscene with Leliana, we both came back with half our gear completely missing from the inventory.)