Early Closing Day in the Imperial City

[Midwinter1888]

Hi,

 

I've just re-installed Oblivion and all my many mods (including FCOM). All's running fine except I've hit a bug I've not seen before:

 

First one shop in the IC Market District (Divine Elegance) and now two (The Best Defense) have started staying shut during the day. If I go back to earlier saves they're opening normally, so I'm guessing it's not a mod conflict - and anyway, I've added no new mods since before the problem started.

 

If I unlock the doors and go in, the owners are missing (well, only Mario Rufus is missing in The Best Defense). Knowing a little about the infamous bug created by the Frostcrag Tower DLC mod, I guessed that the NPC's have got misplaced by the game so can't go through their shop-opening routine. But if I use their Ref ID's to move them to the player, they just wander off into the Imperial City.

 

I wouldn't worry too much - I could just go back to an earlier save before the problem arose - but since the bug has spread from one to two shops, I'm worried it will reappear and spread further.

 

Has anyone seen this bug before and have any idea how to fix it? For example, how can I get the shop-owner NPC to switch from wander mode to shop-running mode?

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Megatarius]

I have seen a similar bug, and it's probably not the same thing, but I'll share it anyway.

 

I use the Choices and Consequences mod, which improves the guilds. I started the Fighter's Guild in Anvil, and was told that I had to amass all these new points to my record before I could move up enough to do the next quest, which is also in Anvil, and concerns a shopkeep there.

 

Well, now that Shopkeep is bugged until I can trigger the next Fighter's Guild quest in Anvil. He is perpetually in wander mode, and never manages the store at all, after I have done the first Fighter's Guild quest.

 

 

I know it's not your same bug, but I thought it was similar enough to mention. Unless this is a common bug in the real game (are you using the Unofficial Patches?), I would guess this is indeed brought on by a mod.

[Midwinter1888]

Thanks Megatarius. That does sound a similar, if different problem. The thing is that I'm not running any mods that change the two shop keepers in question, apart from adding ShaiyaOutfit to Divine Elegance and Alternative_Light_Armors to The Best Defense. The latter I've been using for years with no problems. And surely if it was the mods, the problem would occur immediately after they were installed, not develop over time. Hmm...

 

I am using latest Unnofficial Patch and a Bashed Patch. I wonder if combining the lists in the Bashed Patch might be confusing the shop keepers in some way? I have to admit, I've never fully understood the options in Wrye Bash. I just followed the FCOM instructions and enjoyed the game stability that results.

[Midwinter1888]

Damn.

 

I went back to an earlier save - where the shops were running normally - but the bug came back after a couple of game days. Divine Elegance is still fine, but The Best Defense has lost Mario Rufus again and stays shut all the time.

 

I'm guessing that the problem lies with Mario Rufus' AI. He's wandering off and not running his shop routine. Can anyone tell me if that's right? And, if so, how can I re-set Rufus back to his correct AI routine?

[Midwinter1888]

And again. Drat it.

 

I went back to an earlier save - were the shops were working fine - and played for a couple of days. Then The Best Defense stopped opening again. Does anyone have any idea what might be causing this?

 

Here's my load order of mods - can anyone see one that might screw-up Mario Rufus's AI?

 

Oblivion.esm

Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm

Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm

Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esm

Mart's Monster Mod.esm

Enhanced Daedric Invasion.esm

CyrodiilUpgradeResourcePack.esm

FCOM_Convergence.esm

DremoraCompanion.esm

Better Cities Resources.esm

bookplacing.esm

BathingMod_Base.esm

cssBase.esm

CM Partners.esm

HorseCombatMaster.esm

bookplacing.esp

TNR - ALL RACES FINAL.esp

Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp

UOP Vampire Aging & Face Fix.esp

Oblivion Citadel Door Fix.esp

DLCShiveringIsles.esp

Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp

Better Cities .esp

Fra.esp

Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp

Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp

Francesco's Optional Chance of More Enemies.esp

Francesco's Optional Leveled Guards.esp

FCOM_Francescos.esp

FCOM_FrancescosItemsAddOn.esp

FCOM_FrancescosNamedBosses.esp

HBM.esp

weather inside [seasons] v1.2.esp

WindowLightingSystem.esp

Book Jackets Oblivion - BP.esp

VanityCameraSmoother.esp

ClocksOfCyrodiil_BC_OBC_OC_OCLR_Vanilla.esp

DID3_DoubleTrouble.esp

P1DseeYouSleep.esp

RAEVWD Cities.esp

RAEVWD New Sheoth.esp

RAEVWD Imperial City.esp

VA_BetterGold.esp

Living Economy.esp

Living Economy - Items.esp

Cutthroat Merchants.esp

moDem's City Life.esp

Crowded Cities 15.esp

Map Marker Overhaul.esp

Map Marker Overhaul - SI additions.esp

DLCHorseArmor.esp

DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp

DLCOrrery.esp

DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp

DLCVileLair.esp

DLCVileLair - Unofficial Patch.esp

P1DseeYouSleep - DLCVileLair.esp

DLCMehrunesRazor.esp

DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp

DLCSpellTomes.esp

DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp

MaleBodyReplacerV4.esp

Alternative_Light_Armors-3931.esp

It's A Wig!.esp

Reznod_Mannequin_HD[Eng].esp

ShaiyaOutfit.esp

StockClothingArmor-forExnems.esp

DLCThievesDen.esp

DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp

DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch - SSSB.esp

Bob's Armory Oblivion.esp

FCOM_BobsArmory.esp

Oblivion WarCry EV.esp

FCOM_WarCry.esp

Oscuro's_Oblivion_Overhaul.esp

OOO-Water_Weeds.esp

OOO-No_Guild_Ownership.esp

Mart's Monster Mod - Additional Enemy NPC Vars.esp

FCOM_Convergence.esp

FCOM_RealSwords.esp

FCOM_DurabilityAndDamage.esp

Mart's Monster Mod - More Wilderness Life No Gates.esp

Mart's Monster Mod - More Passive Wildlife.esp

FCOM_SaferRoads.esp

FCOM_LessReaversInGates.esp

Mart's Monster Mod - Extra Wounding.esp

Mart's Monster Mod - Looting NPCs & Creatures.esp

Mart's Monster Mod - Less Reavers.esp

Mart's Monster Mod - Safer Quest Locations.esp

Mart's Monster Mod - Dungeons of MMM.esp

Mart's Monster Mod - Gems & Gem Dust.esp

Mart's Monster Mod - Hunting & Crafting.esp

Mart's Monster Mod - Farm Animals.esp

Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse WaterLife.esp

Mart's Monster Mod - Slof Horses Complete.esp

Mart's Monster Mod - Diverse Runeskulls Loot G&GD.esp

FCOM_DiverseGuardUnity.esp

FCOM_BobsGuardUnity.esp

FCOM_HungersUnitySI.esp

FCOM_Archery.esp

FCOM_FriendlierFactions.esp

FCOM_MoreRandomSpawns.esp

FCOM_MoreRandomItems.esp

Mart's Monster Mod - Shivering Isles.esp

OOO-WaterFish.esp

KvatchAftermath.esp

JolardHome.esp

JSRandomTasks.esp

Corpse_Kvatch.esp

LetThePeopleDrink.esp

Scribe Supplies.esp

Slof's Oblivion Goth Shop II.esp

TheElderCouncil.esp

TheElderCouncil_TempleOfTheOne.esp

VaultsofCyrodiilBC.esp

MoreArenaSpectators.esp

DLCBattlehornCastle.esp

DLCBattlehornCastle - Unofficial Patch.esp

DLCfrostcrag.esp

Knights.esp

Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp

RTT.esp

The Lost Spires.esp

The Soul of Ilithiel.esp

Origin of the Mages Guild.esp

TheNecromancer.esp

MannimarcoRevisited.esp

MannimarcoRevisitedOOO.esp

MannimarcoWardrobeChest.esp

Mart's Monster Mod - City Defences.esp

FCOM_Knights.esp

Enhanced Daedric Invasion.esp

ElsweyrAnequina.esp

xuldarkforest.esp

LostSpires-DarkForest patch.esp

xulStendarrValley.esp

xulTheHeath.esp

XulEntiusGorge.esp

KvatchAftermath-EntiusGorge compatibility patch.esp

TheNecromancer-EntiusGorge patch.esp

xulFallenleafEverglade.esp

LostSpires-Everglade patch.esp

xulColovianHighlands_EV.esp

xulChorrolHinterland.esp

xulBeachesOfCyrodiilLostCoast.esp

xulBravilBarrowfields.esp

xulLushWoodlands.esp

xulAncientYews.esp

xulAncientRedwoods.esp

xulCloudtopMountains.esp

xulArriusCreek.esp

xulPatch_AY_AC.esp

xulRollingHills_EV_withoutWheat.esp

xulPantherRiver.esp

xulRiverEthe.esp

xulBrenaRiverRavine.esp

xulImperialIsle.esp

xulBlackwoodForest.esp

xulCheydinhalFalls.esp

xulAspenWood.esp

xulSkingradOutskirts.esp

Harvest [Flora].esp

Harvest [Flora] - Shivering Isles.esp

Harvest [Flora] - DLCVileLair.esp

Harvest [Flora] - DLCFrostcrag.esp

ImmersiveWait.esp

Leviathan Soulgems.esp

Cheaper Recharge.esp

P1DkeyChain.esp

PersuasionOverhaul.esp

ScriptIcon_Replacer.esp

Enhanced Vegetation [125%].esp

StarX Vampire Deaths.esp

vn_goldweight.esp

Quest Award Leveller.esp

Quest Award Leveller - Battlehorn Castle.esp

Quest Award Leveller - Vile Lair.esp

Quest Award Leveller - Mehrunes Razor.esp

Quest Award Leveller - Knights of the Nine.esp

BathingMod_Soap.esp

BathingMod_Bathroom_Upgrades.esp

BathingMod_Placeable_Bathtubs.esp

SM Encumbrance and Fatigue.esp

RealisticForceHigh.esp

PC Sleep Disrober.esp

Advanced Mark & Recall.esp

Friendly Fire.esp

Mark & Recall.esp

SetEssentialActors.esp

EnchantmentRestore.esp

EnchantmentRestore_Wells.esp

RenGuardOverhaul.esp

RenGuardOverhaulShiveringIsles.esp

Deadly Reflex 5 - Timed Block and 2.5x damage.esp

DeadlyReflex 5 - Combat Moves.esp

Kobu's Character Advancement System.esp

Kobu's Personality Enhancer.esp

Kobu's Health Modifier Mod.esp

Kobu's 2x Slower Jack-of-All-Trades Mod.esp

Kobu's Cure for Fatigue Mod.esp

Francesco's Slower skills x3.esp

OOO-Level_Slow.esp

Mart's Monster Mod - Resized Races.esp

Slof's Oblivion Better Beasts.esp

Soya 4 Hair Pack - English.esp

DemonRace.esp

DremoraFemales.esp

CM Partners.esp

CM Partners NPC.esp

CM Partners NPC NE.esp

CM Partners Extra NPCs.esp

cssCalisto.esp

cssIrenicus.esp

DremoraCompanion.esp

Better Cities Full.esp

Better Cities - VWD of the IC.esp

Better Imperial City.esp

Better Imperial City FPS Patch.esp

Better Cities Full FPS Patch.esp

Francesco's day lenght rescale 1-12.esp

Improved Lava.esp

Visual Enchantments v1.0.esp

LightSpellWhite.esp

Bashed Patch, 0.esp

Streamline 3.1.esp

Movement and Travel v1.1b.esp

PrimaryNeeds135.esp

top_tower.esp

Dungeon Actors Have Torches 1.51 DT.esp

KvatchAftermathMQPatch.esp

Better Looking Redguards.esp

Kismet Companion.esp

ElsweyrAnequina - Races HGEC-Robert.esp

xulSnowdale.esp

[Midwinter1888]

OK.

 

I've found a rather rough and nasty fix for the problem: I toggle Moro Rufus' AI off while the shop is open, then toggle it back on when I want to buy something later in the game. That way he is prevented from wandering and not coming back when the shop closes, and he seems to be functioning normally each time I 'wake him up'.

 

I don't like mucking with the AI - I've read that it can have long-term effects on the game - but I can't find the cause of the bug. Nor will this 'fix' prevent the bug spreading to other shops - as it originally did, going from Divine Elegance on to The Best Defense. I can't go round TAI-ing every shop-keeper in the game. :(

 

 

Please, does any modding expert out there have any better ideas?

[Deleted1217574User]

I'm most certainly no expert, but all I can recommend is my tried-and-true, though time consuming method of mod-checking. What I do is first scan my mod list for things that may somehow, even in a tiny way, affect the object in question. In this case, Maro Rufus. So, then, try disabling mods that might have anything to do with him. Better Cities, Living Economy, Cutthroat Merchants, things like that, then see if your problem is fixed. If not, what I generally then do is, starting at the top of my mod list, disable maybe ten or so mods at a time and load up the game, and see if my problem is fixed. If not, exit, and disable ten or so more. Don't reactivate until you've found your culprit. Once you get the mod, go back and one by one, reactivate the mods in your last group that you deactivated (I hope that makes sense, it seems worded oddly) until you get your problem again. There ya go, you've figured out the problem mod. What you do from there sorta depends on how much you care about that particular mod, and therefore how willing you are to work around conflicts.

[Smooth613]

You can use RefScope to find out which mods, if any, are altering Mario's AI package, and much much more.

[Midwinter1888]

I'm most certainly no expert, but all I can recommend is my tried-and-true, though time consuming method of mod-checking. What I do is first scan my mod list for things that may somehow, even in a tiny way, affect the object in question. In this case, Maro Rufus. So, then, try disabling mods that might have anything to do with him. Better Cities, Living Economy, Cutthroat Merchants, things like that, then see if your problem is fixed. If not, what I generally then do is, starting at the top of my mod list, disable maybe ten or so mods at a time and load up the game, and see if my problem is fixed. If not, exit, and disable ten or so more. Don't reactivate until you've found your culprit. Once you get the mod, go back and one by one, reactivate the mods in your last group that you deactivated (I hope that makes sense, it seems worded oddly) until you get your problem again. There ya go, you've figured out the problem mod. What you do from there sorta depends on how much you care about that particular mod, and therefore how willing you are to work around conflicts.

 

Thanks Raithfyre - I will certainly try your method if nothing else seems to work, but since it's an intermittently occurring bug - and I have a lot of mods (see above) - I'll need to set a lot of time aside for the bug hunt.

[Midwinter1888]

You can use RefScope to find out which mods, if any, are altering Mario's AI package, and much much more.

 

Thanks Smooth613. I've installed RefScope, and it seems that Maro Rufus AI package had some repetitions: for example, his Wander package is marked down down twice in the REfScope read out. I'm guessing that two mods are giving him the same instructions, and thus causing the bug. Unfortunately I'm still too green to figure out how to get a link from an AI instruction to it's governing mod. I'll have to read and fiddle about some more...

 

Thanks again for the help.