There Stands The Grass

[pjz]

I'm at the end of this quest and I don't really want to give the data to creepy Hildern, but there doesn't seem to be any other option to wrap up the quest. The Brotherhood didn't want it (had Veronica along and that part of her quest progressed) and neither did the Followers of the Apocalypse. Is there any other way to finish this quest?

 

On a related note, I really dislike the way the Brotherhood is presented in FO:NV. I've always thought their motives as a group were fairly selfish and a bit stodgy, but it seems like this game goes well out of its way to paint the Brotherhood as suicidally stupid. Pretty sure that if an alien spaceship crashed next to a Brotherhood bunker and a bunch of cool, useful non-human tech fell out of it, they would be all up in that thang and paladins would be packing alien blasters before the dust had a chance to settle. The whole conversation with the Elder for this quest was just irritating and dumb. It's established all over the lore, even in the same game, that the Brotherhood still invents new tech whenever they're able to. It's almost like somebody on the writing team said "Hey I've always hated the Brotherhood, I'm gonna trash them up storywise so nobody can do good things with them in the future."

[LobselVith66]

Keely will delete the data if you rescued her, as well as the data on your Pip-Boy (unless she's convinced against it), so Hildern won't get the data.

 

As for the BoS, it seems Elder McNamara recognizes they're on the wrong path (in his dialogue with Veronica during her quest), but can't do anything about it given the mindset of the BoS members.

[pjz]

That's the thing, since I had Veronica with me at that point, Keely allowed me to keep the plant growth data - which seemed like a really great thing to give to the Brotherhood (scripted to not take it) or Followers (not scripted for it at all). Now it looks like I'm just stuck with the quest unfinished. A little programming oversight I guess.

[secksegai]

Aside from Veronica's sidequest, the other option is a science check to convince Keely that even failures have their merit and she'll accept that it may serve as a warning. While cocky, I'm not so worried they'll be overly successful with using the data, they did hire Fantastic after all. I know if I had a little more reason, I'd sneak kill him just for being a bastard.

 

While not fond of the place of BoS in this game, I felt it was in line with the lore. Their doctrine was adequate in FO1 and FO2 days, but with the NCR well established, it's no surprise that the BoS in the region is so minimal. Helios resulted in heavy losses, and its not like the BoS chapters are in constant communication. Their numbers dwindling, its no surprise that they've retreated to their bunker. Unlike Elder Lyons, who was wise enough to not limit himself to the Codex, this Elder is doing the best he can within its limitations. As their ideals effectively makes them neutral or unfriendly (to say the least) to the rest of the waste, sticking to them so blindly will be their downfall. Veronica sees it coming, but the majority of the brotherhood is set in its ways for them to save themselves.

 

Consider this, the player character can effectively do everything the BoS was unable to do, whether it be getting the parts for the air filtration system, or just exploring topside. And, as a single player can single-handedly wipe out the entire chapter (whether through sheer force or self-destruct), technological superiority no longer holds the same advantage. As they already have to trade for supplies, its fairly clear that at least this particular chapter will fade away unless there's a drastic change in their way of thinking.

Edited December 4, 2010 by secksegai

[pjz]

That's really what irritated me though, Veronica stresses over and over that this particular Elder is the most progressive in the entire Brotherhood, and even he is too dumb to take food when starving (literally). If it had been presented without the context of "...and the entire Brotherhood is a lot dumber than this" it wouldn't have bothered me too badly, this presentation just seemed vindictive.

[secksegai]

The most progressive Elder is/was Lyons, as he stopped living by the codex in the most literal sense and actually cared about people outside of the BoS. Aside from him, every BoS experience I can recall, the BoS were all about the weapons and themselves.

 

They weren't really starving, but they did have to depend on outside communities for additional food sources. But aside from Lyons, I can't imagine any Elder giving serious thought to food tech since they're so focused on weapons tech. Depending on folks they otherwise would care less about isn't surprising. I used to not get why so many people felt so negative towards the BoS of FO3 until being reminded of their nature in FONV. I still feel bad that poor Matt got wasted by Horrigan tho.

[zerrodefex]

The most progressive Elder is/was Lyons, as he stopped living by the codex in the most literal sense and actually cared about people outside of the BoS. Aside from him, every BoS experience I can recall, the BoS were all about the weapons and themselves.

 

They weren't really starving, but they did have to depend on outside communities for additional food sources. But aside from Lyons, I can't imagine any Elder giving serious thought to food tech since they're so focused on weapons tech. Depending on folks they otherwise would care less about isn't surprising. I used to not get why so many people felt so negative towards the BoS of FO3 until being reminded of their nature in FONV. I still feel bad that poor Matt got wasted by Horrigan tho.

 

Yeah, the Brotherhood Outcasts in Fallout 3 were more closely in line with the majority of the Brotherhood of Steel. I guess a lot of people missed that detail, probably since the Outcasts play such a small role in Fallout 3 compared to the DC BoS.

[secksegai]

The most progressive Elder is/was Lyons, as he stopped living by the codex in the most literal sense and actually cared about people outside of the BoS. Aside from him, every BoS experience I can recall, the BoS were all about the weapons and themselves.

 

They weren't really starving, but they did have to depend on outside communities for additional food sources. But aside from Lyons, I can't imagine any Elder giving serious thought to food tech since they're so focused on weapons tech. Depending on folks they otherwise would care less about isn't surprising. I used to not get why so many people felt so negative towards the BoS of FO3 until being reminded of their nature in FONV. I still feel bad that poor Matt got wasted by Horrigan tho.

 

Yeah, the Brotherhood Outcasts in Fallout 3 were more closely in line with the majority of the Brotherhood of Steel. I guess a lot of people missed that detail, probably since the Outcasts play such a small role in Fallout 3 compared to the DC BoS.

 

When I was playing FO3, I thought of the outcasts as being more of the literalists while Elder Lyons and Co. were more conceptualists. He adapted himself, his "chapter" and beliefs to the times. The Outcasts followed their beliefs to the letter, even when the need for change stared them in the face. Funny thing now that I think about it, there were about as many Outcasts in FO3 as there are BoS in the bunker.

 

I can't remember not having a good rep with whatever BOS faction existed between FO1, FO2, and FO3 by game's end.