spoiler City elves - do we actually ever get to marry?

[MagdalenaDwojniak]

Hello,

 

I hope I am posting this in the correct area... Please tell me if not (and how to fix that, I don't want to make a mess).

 

I am playing DAO for the first time after lots of roleplaying and thus I'm mainly interested in how the plot unfurls, whether it is cohesive or not etc. (I am also going to write a paper on that, but that's irrelevant, I guess - I bet few of you are interested in the narrathological approach to RPGs and I understand that :smile:). I want to have it consistent.

 

My character is a female city elf (and I confess that I modded the game to play the city origin, but be a mage otherwise, using this "All Origins Playable" mod). I have a friend who is very DA-savvy and knows Alistair will betray any non-human-noble, in other words, he won't keep his vows and marry (that's utterly disastrous of you, young man!). Adding to that how city elves are treated (

I am trying to roleplay the game in a way to fix the bias as much as possible

), may I ask if it's ever possible for a city elf Warden to marry?

 

So far, the game has been very satisfying and the city elf origin seems the most mature and rewarding, roleplaying-wise. However, my intention is to try to

lure poor Zevran into admitting his feelings

. Is it possible? If so, will I actually get to see a cutscene of the wedding ceremony itself? I am fine with using mods for that, I just don't know if it is possible for my particular character. All searches proved people pair Zev with a Dalish rogue, though I don't know why.

The Dalish Warden, at least initially, undergoes the Joining just to get cured... They are also a bit stereotypical - forgive my literary science approach, can't help it.

 

 

To sum it up: I want an interesting story involving city elves, the ability to be a mage when it comes to abilities (the mod mentioned above manages to mesh the dialogues perfectly) and a happy ending with Zevran. I would be more than grateful for blonde-proof instructions on achieving that. Thank you in advance!

Edited April 10, 2015 by MagdalenaDwojniak

[Thandal]

Regarding you [ spoiler ] points:

 

1. Alistair does not "betray" any vow. And I felt he adequately expresses why he must do what is right for his kingdom despite his personal feelings. You don't have to like the options that are made avalilable, but that doesn't make them unrealistic.

 

2. If I understand what you're saying, then what you want to accomplish is easy. (In fact, in many ways Zev is the "easiest" companion all the way around.)

 

3. From a cultural consistency perspective, what is your issue with the Dalish Elf origin? Why wouldn't that be the primary, (if not only) motivation for a young person from that background to undergo the Joining?

 

(And you know there are mods that let's any PC, of any background, or gender, marry Big Al, right? :wink: )

[MagdalenaDwojniak]

Regarding you [ spoiler ] points:

 

1. Alistair does not "betray" any vow. And I felt he adequately expresses why he must do what is right for his kingdom despite his personal feelings. You don't have to like the options that are made avalilable, but that doesn't make them unrealistic.

 

2. If I understand what you're saying, then what you want to accomplish is easy. (In fact, in many ways Zev is the "easiest" companion all the way around.)

 

3. From a cultural consistency perspective, what is your issue with the Dalish Elf origin? Why wouldn't that be the primary, (if not only) motivation for a young person from that background to undergo the Joining?

 

(And you know there are mods that let's any PC, of any background, or gender, marry Big Al, right? :wink: )

 

Thank you for replying so quickly, very kind of you!

 

I don't know what Alistair does. I was only told it this way. I think it would be difficult for him to officially marry a non-noble should he become king, even a dwarven noble could be, well, complicated. What seemed a bit unrealistic to me in the retelling of the game (heh, I have yet to see myself! :P) is that he seems very true to his feelings and if he wanted to propose to the heroine, then it would make sense for him to refuse the throne since Anora as Queen-Widow has good claims too and appears more capable of ruling in the difficult times. I guess it's a matter of what I was told, nevertheless, I will eventually see myself! :)

 

The third point is that I am unable to avoid comparison to other games, I am afraid. And to scientific investigation too. See, I am not only a gamer - I have to analyse the context, compare, study the tropes, blah, blah, blah. I guess it could bore you. My point is that for the paper I intend to write, the key part is describing the differences in the gameplay based on the origin and how it affects the player. So far, the origins except for the Dalish elves have a thing in common: the hero has a reason based more in their ego and perhaps even superego than in id. The Dalish elf has to become a Warden in order to have any chance of survival. He or she would be content to remain with the clan. There is less of a bildungsroman flavour to this origin when compared to the others. The trope used for them is, more or less, the noble savage. They are proud, distrustful of other (including other elves, maybe even other Dalish clans), they prefer isolation. Even the semantic layer is remindful of this. In fact, they are quite like the sylvan elves in Drakensang and, to an extent, a mix between sun and sylvan elves in D&D. When you have the noble origins, the pursuit is to prove their worth, to clear the name. In the mage origin, it is a coming of age ritual (which proves the hero's worth too, of course). In the dwarven commoner, the key appears to be both proving their worth and escaping the social injustice. In the city elf origin, it is a mixture, with protecting the family and proving - mind you, to the outside world, not just to those the hero cares for - the worth. Not just the worth of the individual, but of the whole community. So, when you write it down, the common part is: "proving their worth". The Dalish elf doesn't need to do that at that point: he/she is experienced enough to survive in the forest, he/she hunts, can wield weapons. These are the typical (literary) indicators of being accepted by the community as a capable member. They set off to become a Warden to retain this, to stay alive, so that one day, they may try to come back.

 

Just keep in mind these are very preliminary findings ;).

 

Regarding the mods for Alistair, I admit I didn't know that. Would you care to point me to some please?

 

I am also glad to hear Zevran can be bonded with. Would it comply with the forum rules if you cared to give me some instructions? I found something called "Zevran Relationship FAQ" at BioWare, but it says nothing on getting the wedding cutscene to record. That's my main problem.

 

Thanks a lot for your reply! And sorry if my approach is... different. I know it sounds weird the first time you hear about theory of gaming, ludology versus narratology rift and so on. If it is against a rule of the forum, just let me know and I'll try to hold my horses.

[Thandal]

I think you'd enjoy this paper. :thumbsup:

 

I have a different take on the motivations for several of the origins. I see the following:

 

a. Mage -- The character's Harrowing is NOT the precipitating event (or even a contributing factor) in the decision to become a Warden.

b. Human Noble -- Honoring the sacrifice/last request of parents, with a good dose of old-fashioned revenge added in.

c. Dwarven Noble -- Fugitive outcast (and betrayed?)

 

Some Mods:

Anyone can marry Alistair

TW Zevran Wedding

[theskymoves]

List of Alistair-related romance mods, including weddings -> here.

 

Zevran Open Wedding by luna1124 is a wedding cutscene for non-Dalish Zevmancers.

[MagdalenaDwojniak]

I think you'd enjoy this paper. :thumbsup:

 

I have a different take on the motivations for several of the origins. I see the following:

 

a. Mage -- The character's Harrowing is NOT the precipitating event (or even a contributing factor) in the decision to become a Warden.

b. Human Noble -- Honoring the sacrifice/last request of parents, with a good dose of old-fashioned revenge added in.

c. Dwarven Noble -- Fugitive outcast (and betrayed?)

 

Some Mods:

Anyone can marry Alistair

TW Zevran Wedding

 

Thandal, you know these people?! Extraordinary! They're "the" researchers on the subject :D! Am I correct you dabble in my line of work too? If so, how do you view Jerzy Szeja's or Michał Mochocki's theories? Did you have an opportunity to read "Reality is Broken: Why Games Make Us Better and How They Can Change the World"? Or the insight A. Busse-Brandyk and D. Chmielewska-Łuczak share on moral choices of the player? I didn't expect to find a fellow one, on all forums, it's always "that's the quirky one getting paid for playing games" (oh, sweet illusions! Hardly so :tongue:).

 

About "TW Zevran Wedding": will it matter that my character is a city elf? I read the city version was a WIP and probably never got finished.

 

List of Alistair-related romance mods, including weddings -> here.

 

Zevran Open Wedding by luna1124 is a wedding cutscene for non-Dalish Zevmancers.

 

Thank you! I picked up the second mod and I'm going to install it if Thandal confirms "TW Zevran Wedding" is not yet usable with non-Dalish Wardens.

Edited April 13, 2015 by MagdalenaDwojniak

[Thandal]

Glad you liked my link (had you already read that paper?) I'm very interested in the topic, but only as a result of a broader interest in human thought processes and decision making. So while I haven't read Busse-Brandyk/Chmielewska, I have read some of Kahneman/Tversky, among others. And "Reality is Broken" looks like something I'd like to read!

 

I have no idea whether a City Elf can use TW Zevran Wedding to advantage. While I like Zev fine (and my Hawke always takes his side in DA2) none of my Wardens (and I've played all the origins, most several times) have been interested in a more... exclusive relationship with him. :laugh:

[MagdalenaDwojniak]

Glad you liked my link (had you already read that paper?) I'm very interested in the topic, but only as a result of a broader interest in human thought processes and decision making. So while I haven't read Busse-Brandyk/Chmielewska, I have read some of Kahneman/Tversky, among others. And "Reality is Broken" looks like something I'd like to read!

 

I have no idea whether a City Elf can use TW Zevran Wedding to advantage. While I like Zev fine (and my Hawke always takes his side in DA2) none of my Wardens (and I've played all the origins, most several times) have been interested in a more... exclusive relationship with him. :laugh:

 

Yes, I think it is an interesting paper, by the way. I agree - mostly - with the conclusions, but they should have taken into consideration that, as far as supposed physical attraction is concerned, there are tresholds (like no option for romancing Oghren). I also think it would have been worth noting whether mods were used; they alter the experience, because they are created upon fandom's demand, so those who use them will likely be more positive towards them. It is delightful to meet you, my partner in crime, err, in the most socially-beneficial science :P!

 

Actually, the researchers reference Zevran directly: "For instance, at one point in the game a companion will either defend or attempt to kill the player depending on whether his approval rating is above or below a certain threshold". They do not mention him by name, even in a footnote - this is quite strange. Or maybe it's just more customary in my part of the world to reference everything in an almost-too-meticulous manner.

 

Did you know this article? And "Homo Ludens", the editorial of the Games Research Association of Poland (Polskie Towarzystwo Badania Gier), each volume, is available online for free if you are interested, some articles are entirely in English, others are in Polish (though I guess that, should the author be contacted, he or she would gladly answer any questions in English or even offer a translation): http://ptbg.org.pl/HomoLudens/.

 

As for the wedding, I settled for the finished "Zevran Open Wedding" now, it looks good enough to give it a chance, especially since I like it more than the city elf WIP video from "TW Zevran Wedding". I wish it would be possible to have the ladies of honour sequence in Denerim. Oh well.

[Thandal]

That's a very valid point about the authors of that paper not accounting for the lack of a romance option with FOUR of the companions (and excluding Dog from consideration, of course.) They all have fans who would have gladly pursued such a course had it been available. (Many have asked for mods to do just that. Sadly, that's not possible.) And obviously the total amount of game time that one could possibly spend with one of them is significantly less than for the others, but there's no indication that they accounted for that either.

 

Basically, I don't think the authors ever played the game themselves! :laugh:

[MagdalenaDwojniak]

That's a very valid point about the authors of that paper not accounting for the lack of a romance option with FOUR of the companions (and excluding Dog from consideration, of course.) They all have fans who would have gladly pursued such a course had it been available. (Many have asked for mods to do just that. Sadly, that's not possible.) And obviously the total amount of game time that one could possibly spend with one of them is significantly less than for the others, but there's no indication that they accounted for that either.

 

Basically, I don't think the authors ever played the game themselves! :laugh:

 

They didn't?! Oh my, this is unbelievable! Szeja always keeps telling that "you can be a player without being a researcher, but you cannot be a researcher without being a player". It is like talking about a statue you've never seen, even on a photo. I remember when I had to play a bit of "The Witcher" for work... Let's say it wasn't pleasant. But I had to, because talking about something you don't know just wouldn't be fair if you ask me.

 

As for romance mod requests... I accidentally stumbled upon a mod like that... for Loghain. Considering just the fact Anora, his daughter, is older than you... well, rather disturbing. But as long as nobody forces me to use it, I'm tolerant enough, I hope!

 

PS As far as he's concerned... I feel both fates are not what you would do to protect the kingdom's integrity. I'd prefer this.

Edited April 16, 2015 by MagdalenaDwojniak