how combat should work

[jack254]

i just posted this on the facepunch forums, and thought i should copy it over here (cus it took a long time to write, and i think i did well)

 

 

 

 

POST IDEAS FOR COMBAT

 

to make things more interesting, characters should be able to use EVERY ONE of their abilities at once, for example:

 

i want to use my stealth and hand to hand skill to break the neck of bandit 1. i will then use my block skill to use my shield as a battering ram to knock over bandit 2, and then execute him on the floor with my sword.i will then switch to a spear as bandit 3 charges towards me, i will point my spear out just as bandit 3 jumps. he jumps on my spear, by this time the player feels awsome. dog 1 comes, and since the player still has his spear lodged in bandit 3 the player will attempt to smite the mongrel down with his foot (hurray for animal cruelty) the player realises that bandit 4 is an archer, he quickly uses his shield to block the arrow heading towards his chest. he throws his spear through the archers heart and pins her to the wall

 

bandit 5, 6 and 7 charge in with shields, forming a tight formation. the player charges a ball of fire at 6, the formation is broken and 6 discards his flaming shield, 6 sprints towards the player with a loud battle cry. the player throws two ice bolts at him. the first travels in front of him, the second hits his legs. 6 screams in pain and walks forward like his leg is made of concrete. he slips on the ice patch and is injured. the 5 and 7 formation closes in, both shiting themselves. the player kicks 7's shield, sending him toppling over 6's body. 5 is a good swordsman, blades crash together and the two stare each other down. the player can see the fear in 5's eyes. the player head buts 5 and the two seperate. the player uses a spell to set his sword on fire, 5 is completely shocked and inable to do a thing as the flaming sword decapitates him.

 

7 gets up, the player observes as he runs away screaming, the player summons a shuriken and 7 falls back down with no life

 

6 patheticaly tries to crawl away. the player taunts her. she starts crying at all the death and destruction around her. her friends are gone, slaughtered by the insane power that is the player, the players personality, flaming sword, the terrifying Armour that the player wears help scare the ability to stand from her. the player picks her up with one arm, holds her close to him and asks her a question, 6 fights through tears to tell him the answer, the player throws her at least four metres. she thinks its over, but the player throws his sword at her chest, loots the place and sets up a camp

 

that would be awsome, imagine how good you would feel :) (just dont try it for real- ok?)

 

 

magic

the spell system from both morrowind and oblivion should be scrapped

 

the player should be able to charge up spells, so a weak fireball can become a strong one that EXPLODES, a summoned dremora can be more powerfull or require less mana. if the spell is of a higher level (compared to the player) then the player must charge the spell to reduce the likelihood of failure

 

 

frost spells should not damage the targer on hit, instead they should slow the part hit (like a leg) down and the cold damage it slowly, the cold should make it easier to damage. a frost spell should be able to lock a door, or make a surface slippery

 

fire spells should have a chance of ignition, the fire should change colour depending on the intensity of the spell, the balls explosion should be relative to the damage. it should be able to ignite some objects, and it should be able to warm the player up if a hardcore mode is enabled

 

electricity spells should hurt everything near it under water, but fails the deeper it goes in. it should stun/ throw enemies and link to nearby targets

 

the player should be able to fly/swim at fast speeds, while this is achieved swordplay should be different

 

telekinetic spells should allow the player to push enemies, stop enemies, or just throw them upon your weapon

 

there should be spells to turn your fists/weapon on fire/electricity/ice for a small amount of time

 

unarmed

 

i want unarmed to be really USEFUL

unarmed should link to weapons, you should be able to kick, head butt (i will explain later)grab and punch while you have a weapon. and these should be affected by unarmed

 

the characters should be able to disarm opponents

 

the characters should be able to break bones (and necks in a stealth attack)

 

the characters should be able to grab an opponent to throw/punch/execute/ use as a little shield

 

counter attacks :)

 

characters should be able to push opponents (with hands, kicks come later but are worse for closs)

 

characters should be able to tackle and trip opponents (and get out of these positions)

 

it should be really satisfying, imagine a vicious wolf jumping at you to bite your head in, you already have your spear in another wolf, so you KICK ITS FACE IN

 

player should be able to throw stuff fast

 

once the player has INSANE SKILL, they should be able to try and catch arrows

 

 

weapons

 

SPEARS, ONE HANDED SPEARS, DUAL WIELDING! (shortswords, daggers and axes only)

 

characters should be able to adopt a defensive stance with the spear out, anything stupid enough to run/ jump into the spear should be impaled

 

disarming

 

swords should be able fto go into that epic moment where the swords clash and the two opponents stare each other down while they have a strengh contest, during this time they can punch/headbut each other too their hearts content, or move out the way and hope the other overbalances

 

power attacks that kill should preform a short animation, like an animation of them getting impaled and falling of the blade, not some pathetic ragdol

 

should be able to use the shield as a battering ram

 

stabbing attacks from block

 

 

marksman

 

not much too say here, perhaps someone could expand for me

 

crossbows

 

throwing weapons, possibly with a separate skill

 

other

 

mounted combat :)

 

some usefull companions that dont get in your way, long term summons would be nice

 

instead of just protection, wieght and value, armour should also have the following factors

-cold resistance

- water risistance

- electricity resistance

-flammability

- inspiration (does it make enemies afraid/alies more courageous )

- faction

- does this helmet cover your face?

- does this helmet/glove/boot/shield increase damage by head-but/punching/kicking/bashing?

 

 

 

feel free to correct me, and yes, i did get a bit carried away

Edited December 15, 2010 by jack254

[durns]

So when your killing 1 and the dog use all this cool things and that... there's like 6 other bandits standing around watching?

i think its a bit confusing.

I think they should just update the old combat system, add in throwing weapons and naught have your character to the same attack with the same weapons all the time.

[okimon]

i would love to see a combat system along those lines, one where you can wield multiple weapons at a time. while oblivion's combat system was light-years ahead of morrowind it still left a lot to be desired. coming from a background of playing online games like EverQuest, where duel wielding is commonplace i was severely disappointed that it wasn't a built-in feature on TESIV, and even mods that added it were lacking.

 

i always thought it would be cool for a system to have a weapon queue, where you would have two or 3 "active" weapons displaying visually on your character that you could quick switch between. say, for example you have a longsword, dagger and bow, you could use the dagger as a throwing weapon to distract one enemy, stab another with your sword, then pick off a sniper with the bow. I've played a lot of RPG's but none of them have captured that twitchy life or death feeling that you get from certain First person shooters. ah well, i guess we'll see what they do with it. i just hope it's not another spit-shine of the same basic game we've been playing since morrowind..

[jack254]

So when your killing 1 and the dog use all this cool things and that... there's like 6 other bandits standing around watching?

i think its a bit confusing.

I think they should just update the old combat system, add in throwing weapons and naught have your character to the same attack with the same weapons all the time.

 

no, i was thinking of that fight being in a bandit cave, and they would use their advanced intelligence to come to the ear splitting screams.

 

more detail

kick

-effective on shields and light animals (ie dogs,spiders)

-at higher hand to hand, the player is able to break shins, trip opponents, kick to specific parts of the body

- excellent at de-limbing skeletons

 

grab

- can be used to disarm a weapon if unarmed, although it should be better to block/dodge the weapon

- can be used to grab an enemy for an option to throw,question,execute,drop or use to block attacks depending on the next button the player presses. the strengh of the player/target is taken into acount as well as the moral of both because the player could get tired or the victim could break free

-can do a judo hip through in a combination with other things. (victim would be on the floor)

-if a charecter is running this could be a tackle (the victim will then be on the floor)

 

push

-used when kick wont work, and is less likely to call guards

 

throw

-can throw people, objects and so on

block (running forward a shield/spear becomes a weapon to knock people over) if used at the exact time struck then the player could do a counter attack (a regular attack with no opposition)

 

main attack

- (hold for power attack) if held with the block and the player is holding a spear then a defensive stance is made, anything that runs into the spear will feel it.

- on killing an enemy, a SHORT animation is played (as opposed to an epic ragdol flop) like a semi death animation that goes into a ragdol .

- killing an enemy with a power attack results in cooler looking animations, such as getting a weapon lodged through the body out. these animations should be short, but while they happen the player can look around, punch,spell and kick

- bladed weapons may lock with each other, during this time the player may punch, headbut and so on while batteling in the strengh contest (the one who runs out of fatigue looses,however the charecters involved may walk out to do another attack, however attacks in this contest can drain fatigue )

 

-block

--shield can be used to batter/push opponents by running into them

--weak to kick

-- player can attack and block at the same time, however the block lessens and so does the attack strength

-- has a small chance of blocking passivly when skill is very high

-- the player can disarm opponents easier

--the player can counter attack if something is blocked at the right moment.

 

spells

-spells should be chargeable. a weak fireball should be charged into a strong fireball. a higher skill in destruction should mean that the spell can be charged more and costs less

- if a spell is advanced and the characters skill is basic, then the player should charge the spell up to working condition, as there will be a period of failure

 

examples

 

weak attack, strong character

 

,100%,110%,125%,150%,175%,220%

 

strong attack, weak character

 

0%, 0%,0% 25%,50%,100%,100%,110%- overcharging may backfire and hurt the player.

 

furthermore the player should have MORE than the 8 shortcuts to things (usualy spells) on their keyboard/controller. the game should adopt a system similar to half life (pressing 9 twice will get the second spell applied to 9) as well as carrying weapons in the inventory, the player should be able to equip a dagger and a secondary weapon for quick drawing

 

 

 

 

 

animal ability's that would be really cool

 

bites that actualy held on, running away from wolves could fail when they maul on your leg, tripp you over, climb on top of you and try to maul your face in

flying/swiming animals should actually attack like they are flying/swiming. hit and run tactics and the like

skeletons should have their arms and legs knocked off realy easily and still be able to fight.

skeletons should be able to ambush the player by appearing as a pile of bones, and then form while they player is close/not looking

if possible- spider enemies should be able to wallwalk. there should also be a spell allowing a character to wall-walk

[Kaskas]

I would like something less complicated and just more deadly, make every hit count and just add some moves to make it more tactical and dinamic. And make spears come back.

[TheCalliton]

So when your killing 1 and the dog use all this cool things and that... there's like 6 other bandits standing around watching?

i think its a bit confusing.

I think they should just update the old combat system, add in throwing weapons and naught have your character to the same attack with the same weapons all the time.

correct

you do not weild a giant hammer the same way you weild a claymore... to do so is downright foolish and idiotic

[jack254]

its not complicate it when you play it, only when you put it on paper

[RagnaHighArc]

Most of the ideas here a great, but we need to make it easier for devs to come here and read up on ideas. So, i suggest that the first post should be updated with the best ideas and explanations should be short and simple. Also, if the best ideas don't get into the game this thread could be a great resource for modders like me.

 

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Unarmed

 

Unarmed combat should have stealth perks with a chance of KO based on the player's unarmed skill and placement of attack on the enemy. Something similar to the game THIEF. For example, in the game if the blackjack tool was used on enemies they would be unconscious and the moment you tried to kill them they would scream or yell, alerting other guards in the area.

 

Weapon and Magic based combat

 

Locational damage with visual physical effects on enemies. Frozen feet = sliding around,Frozen legs = Slowed Movement Speed, and stuff like that

[kingtitan]

That is very thought out and really some beautiful combat imagery, but in reality would a game support all of that? I think that simply put, visible damage would be the very first step that should be taken to remedy the combat problem. They had the right idea with arrows staying in the player, but they also forgot scars and slash marks too. But in all honesty, keep up the good work, you definently have some really creative ideas.

[melkormgc]

Me want it be easy

 

Me want who clicks mouse faster kills

 

Me want only one move other moves make it hard for me understand

 

Me want hit computer hard if me hit my guy win fight

 

 

 

 

 

 

... Well, let's hope it won't be so bad at least :)

Edited December 17, 2010 by melkormgc