spoiler "Loghain vs Thedas" case: the third option

[rosvitacousland]

rosvita, I'm sorry, but this is about to get into English grammar and words that would never be used in conversational English :D

 

Thandal, The templars have the Right to perform the Ritual associated with Annulment, but the Ritual itself would be considered the Rite of Annulment. Greagoir was waiting for the Rite of Annulment since the he already had the Right to perform the ritual.

 

Rite of Annulment is in a Codex entry titled "The history of the Rite of Annulment"

 

And finally, having the Right of Annulment does nothing to the mages if the templar doesn't have the Rite of Annulment so that he/she knows how to perform the ritual (used 17 times per the codex entry).

 

Which word is correct depends on the usage.

 

@mcgoy: Thank you for your kind explanation, too! Seems to be very clear.

[rosvitacousland]

Obviously, it is, since it is how the Seekers of Truth are created, but it is not common knowledge.

 

 

As I remember you haven't got the possibility to get and read the Dragon Age novels yourself. So things have changed for you?

 

You wrote, that "it is not common knowledge". But that's the point in the story. Suddenly, it could become common knowledge. I thought, that this could be an interessant information for you. And that you would appreciate every help you can get. After all you let me tell you whole novels...

 

In each case, common knowledge or not, as a reversible act it wouldn't be a sufficient punishement for Loghain and I am astonished that you suggested it just knowing about the reversible character.

Ditto. From what I gather Rosvita is just starting to learn English, it isn't her first language, so it's excusable. Good you highlighted it for her though. I bet she appreciates all help!

 

 

Well, as I remember, you are Polish. So English isn't your first language neither.

 

Concerning me, I don't need any exculpation just for using a single(!) expression "appeasement" - which by the way has got as one meaning "Besänftigung" - instead of "tranquillement", which has not got the meaning "Besänftigung". In the German game the expression is "Besänftigter" for the person.

 

"Just starting to learn English" - no, I wouldn't have been able to make translation mods nor to write instructions about Dragon Age nor to test the ARR mod etc.

 

And on one thing you can be sure: I don't appreciate your malice!

Ditto again. You could not have possibly been clearer. Kudos, Anne

 

 

 

I am sure, that Anne don't need your mark. Furthermore, I am sure, that I understand this explanation of Anne as well as you do.

Edited June 12, 2016 by rosvitacousland

[Thandal]

rosvita, I'm sorry, but this is about to get into English grammar and words that would never be used in conversational English :D

 

Thandal, The templars have the Right to perform the Ritual associated with Annulment, but the Ritual itself would be considered the Rite of Annulment. Greagoir was waiting for the Rite of Annulment since the he already had the Right to perform the ritual.

 

Rite of Annulment is in a Codex entry titled "The history of the Rite of Annulment"

 

And finally, having the Right of Annulment does nothing to the mages if the templar doesn't have the Rite of Annulment so that he/she knows how to perform the ritual (used 17 times per the codex entry).

 

Which word is correct depends on the usage.

 

Sorry, but that's not what David Gaider (lead writer of the Dragon Age-series and author of Asunder) said five years ago in the post I quoted from the BioWare forums in response to your exact point about the erroneous usage in the Codex Entry,

 

It is not a rite at all, It is the RIGHT of Annulment. It's the legal authority granted to the Templars (by exception, and only upon request and appropriate approval) to kill all the mages within a Circle.

 

 

BTW: Still trying to figure out what rosvita meant by: "Rite of Appeasement". :happy:

[MagdalenaDwojniak]

Thandal, please, if you are so kind, close the thread on this message. It is getting off-topic and I hardly appreciate slander of my insignificant person. No idea how it still continues since I have already found my solution and explicitly stated so. Being accused of malice while doing nothing wrong is just beyond my comprehension. Insinuations and concepts about who I am are pointless, unjustified and plain fallacious. I fail to understand why Rosvita acts this way. I got the impression of learning English from the posts. I have no intention to categorise or assess anyone's skills (however, I cannot agree with right being a relatively modern word as it is used in Old English, the concept being older than dirt, sooo...). I never judge people's work without having thoroughly examined them, so I am leaving this open. I have, regrettably, read many translations made by people with their proficiency level not fit for translating yet, and it did not prevented them from, let's say, issuing derivatives. I am not saying Rosvita is the case, but I still stand by the opinion my defense of her is justified.

 

I am saddened if she misunderstood my excuse for her and felt... I don't know - threatened? Why? It sounds weird. What I know is I do not appreciate Rosvita involving Anne and I will not pretend she is not my friend. It is nothing to be ashamed of (quite the contrary). Please leave her out of this.

 

I could once again explain the difference between the author and character knowledge in regard to the oddly-worded question of Rosvita's regarding making one Tranquil, but Rosvita has a very established opinion and I have already found the solution to my predicament, so it appears as kind of pointless to me.

 

At any rate, my thread could have been closed months ago and to prevent further derailing, I am kindly asking for it to be locked on this post. Thank you in advance.

[rosvitacousland]

 

rosvita, I'm sorry, but this is about to get into English grammar and words that would never be used in conversational English :D

 

Thandal, The templars have the Right to perform the Ritual associated with Annulment, but the Ritual itself would be considered the Rite of Annulment. Greagoir was waiting for the Rite of Annulment since the he already had the Right to perform the ritual.

 

Rite of Annulment is in a Codex entry titled "The history of the Rite of Annulment"

 

And finally, having the Right of Annulment does nothing to the mages if the templar doesn't have the Rite of Annulment so that he/she knows how to perform the ritual (used 17 times per the codex entry).

 

Which word is correct depends on the usage.

 

Sorry, but that's not what David Gaider (lead writer of the Dragon Age-series and author of Asunder) said five years ago in the post I quoted from the BioWare forums in response to your exact point about the erroneous usage in the Codex Entry,

 

It is not a rite at all, It is the RIGHT of Annulment. It's the legal authority granted to the Templars (by exception, and only upon request and appropriate approval) to kill all the mages within a Circle.

 

 

BTW: Still trying to figure out what rosvita meant by: "Rite of Appeasement". :happy:

 

 

@Thandal: rosvita meant the Rite of Tranquility.

 

s. http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Tranquil - Hope, this entry has been no error... -

 

"The Tranquil are a group of mages who went through the Rite of Tranquility and belong to the Formari. The Rite cuts off the connection to the Fade, and the Tranquil can no longer dream nor draw on the Fade to perform magic."

 

(As I told you before, the German game uses the expression "Besänftigter", which means in English "appeased". In addition, sorry, it seems to be quite clear concerning the original idea of Magdalena.)

 

- In addition (and you know, that I never wrote something about the Right of Annulment), (concerning mcgoy's kind expIanation) I already wondered, which kind of rite should be possible for a killing..., but then it's just an error in the Codex.

[mcgoy]

I would call it retconning, even in 2011

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retroactive_continuity#Types.

Retconning can be done to make a correction or retroactively change lore

 

My Grey Wardens have not read any of Mr. Gaider's books, they have not read his blog, they have not read his forum posts. They HAVE read the "books" that result in Codex entries, but they most definitely are NOT able to read the text that reflects what NPCs are saying in game. Since Rite and Right are pronounced the same way, my GWs are going to believe what is true within DAO (inconsistent though it may be in places) - that it is a Rite of Annulment.

 

Yes, the only way to know about the "Right" of Annulment in the game is for the GW to read Greagoir's script.

 

Using "permission", "sanction", "authority", or "dispensation" would have been better choices than "Right" and we wouldn't be having this conversation. Dispensation would have been my pick....

[rosvitacousland]

I would call it retconning, even in 2011

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retroactive_continuity#Types.

Retconning can be done to make a correction or retroactively change lore

 

My Grey Wardens have not read any of Mr. Gaider's books, they have not read his blog, they have not read his forum posts. They HAVE read the "books" that result in Codex entries, but they most definitely are NOT able to read the text that reflects what NPCs are saying in game. Since Rite and Right are pronounced the same way, my GWs are going to believe what is true within DAO (inconsistent though it may be in places) - that it is a Rite of Annulment.

 

Yes, the only way to know about the "Right" of Annulment in the game is for the GW to read Greagoir's script.

 

Using "permission", "sanction", "authority", or "dispensation" would have been better choices than "Right" and we wouldn't be having this conversation. Dispensation would have been my pick....

Thank you for your further kind explanation. Myself I never had this misunderstanding (and I don't know, why Thandal assumed it), because in German it isn't the same sound: It's "Recht" for right and "Ritual" for rite.

 

P.S.: And this is not Gaider's only "retconning"...

Edited June 13, 2016 by rosvitacousland

[Thandal]

All; This topic went sideways only because it pressed one of my personal hot buttons. I always enable sub- (or "sur-") titles, and I have an unnatural sensitivity to mistaken homophones. So I was aware of the discrepancy between the spelling found in the the dialogue and the Codex from my very first playthrough. I, too, assumed that "Rite" was right when referring to "Annulment", and that the person assigned to type-up the subtitles had made the mistake. But when ALL the later in-game references (not to mention the books) called it the "Right of Annulment", I went searching for a more definitive answer. Hence my familiarity with Mr. Gaider's remarks.

 

That said, whoever was responsible for translating "Tranquility" as "Besänftigter" when s/he could have used "Gleichmut" or "Gefühllos", wasn't paying attention. :laugh:

[rosvitacousland]

All; This topic went sideways only because it pressed one of my personal hot buttons. I always enable sub- (or "sur-") titles, and I have an unnatural sensitivity to mistaken homophones. So I was aware of the discrepancy between the spelling found in the the dialogue and the Codex from my very first playthrough. I, too, assumed that "Rite" was right when referring to "Annulment", and that the person assigned to type-up the subtitles had made the mistake. But when ALL the later in-game references (not to mention the books) called it the "Right of Annulment", I went searching for a more definitive answer. Hence my familiarity with Mr. Gaider's remarks.

 

That said, whoever was responsible for translating "Tranquility" as "Besänftigter" when s/he could have used "Gleichmut" or "Gefühllos", wasn't paying attention. :laugh:

 

Thank you very much, Thandal. But this kind of misunderstanding is only possible in the English version of the game. But me, I NEVER ASSUMED that Rite was right, because I play it in German, and in German there are completely different expressions: "Recht" - with one single syllabe - (= "right") and "Ritual" - with three syllabes: Ri - tu - al - (="rite"). (In addition, the pronunciation is completely different.) There is NO possibility to have this kind of misunderstanding caused by the sound in the German version, and I HAVEN'T. (I only didn't use the expression "Tranquility". I never had any problem to make out the difference between "right" and "rite", I never had, I never would and I never will.)

[MagdalenaDwojniak]

That said, whoever was responsible for translating "Tranquility" as "Besänftigter" when s/he could have used "Gleichmut" or "Gefühllos", wasn't paying attention. :laugh:

Not the first and not the last jarring error in localised versions of DAO (and its successors)...

 

So, how will it be with closing the thread and proverbially going somewhere nice to constructively complain about inefficient translations to move on, guys :)? Because the whole discussion I have seen on the last pages pretty much stems from the pitiable fact. And the need to differentiate meta knowledge from character knowledge (like Anne said, what the writer knows is not what the GW knows).