Lock/Unlock packages in unloaded cells.

[RoyBatterian]

Ah I see I see, thank you for the explanation now it makes perfect sense.

 

Those buttons... how did I miss them :facepalm: I see there are buttons also for dialogue conditions that I missed, is there a way to sort dialogue responses too?

 

+1 kudos from me.

[llamaRCA]

Ah I see I see, thank you for the explanation now it makes perfect sense.

 

Those buttons... how did I miss them :facepalm: I see there are buttons also for dialogue conditions that I missed, is there a way to sort dialogue responses too?

 

+1 kudos from me.

 

Thanks :)

 

Re: missing things in the Geck

I know right? I read about something I've missed/learn something new about how it works regularly.

 

RE: Dialogue responses

Do you mean sorting multiple infos inside a single topic? Yes, use the left/right arrow keys.

[Fallout2AM]

That could help me a bit, too. I've tried to add some packages to my companion with AddScriptPackage but for some reason he stays on the new package (so to speak) for a couple of seconds and then goes back to following me :pinch: Thanks for the pointers!

 

The package is dropping - probably it's completed or it can't be completed. It would require more infos on what you're trying to achieve, to give a clue, i.e. if you setted a condition and you expect that the package you added with AddScriptPackage will stick because the condition goes true, unfortunately it won't work - or if it's a travel package maybe you only need to flag MustComplete / Must Reach Location - etc.etc. there's many cases.

However, due to the great number of unexpected behaviours that can happen, my general clue in peculiar cases is spam and check the packages regularly, via script. If you're making a quest or a follower, you surely have some support quest with a staged script attached, you can use that one to achieve your goal. There are many ways to do that, here's an example of what I mean.

NpcREF is sandboxing, you want to move it to a certain place, using a Travel package, but for some reasons you want to use AddScriptPackage instead that adding it on its package list

If NpcRef.GetDistance MyGoalMarker < 128
   ; Move on next stage
else
   If NpcREF.GetCurrentAIPackage 14
   else
      NpcREF.AddScriptPackage MyTravelPackage
   endif
endif

Some scrap of code like that, with the right timing (i.e. default quest delay - not an object script, unless you delay it) would have a good probability to grant a result.

 

 

 

GECK won't let you sort the order of packages which is very very annoying having to rebuild the whole list each time you change something

 

Packages conditions help you a lot with that, using univoque conditions makes that order not really necessary.

[rickerhk]

Ah I see I see, thank you for the explanation now it makes perfect sense.

 

Those buttons... how did I miss them :facepalm: I see there are buttons also for dialogue conditions that I missed, is there a way to sort dialogue responses too?

 

+1 kudos from me.

Doh! I totally missed all those buttons too. I've been using the right and left arrow keys to move packages, conditions, and Info lists.

[RoyBatterian]

Oh dear, thanks for the left/right arrow keys knowledge... we really need a full cheat sheet for keyboard commands and shortcuts for GECK. I started one for the Render Window if anyone wants to contribute. It's nice to have a single printable document instead of having to scour the forums and GECK wiki.

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Eu9noTFp42ukdF-k96P5uReJVKkHjZDcV-RA4S2k5DE/edit

 

I recently found the menu to change key bindings in GECK too so I will add the missing stuff from that.

 

 

Packages conditions help you a lot with that, using univoque conditions makes that order not really necessary.

 

That's kind of sloppy though when the packages are evaluated in order from top to bottom. That goes for conditionals too. Athelbras reamed me a bit over being sloppy about that. :D

[llamaRCA]

 

 

 

Packages conditions help you a lot with that, using univoque conditions makes that order not really necessary.

 

That's kind of sloppy though when the packages are evaluated in order from top to bottom.

 

Yeah, I wouldn't depend on unique conditions alone to determine if a package will work. I always use unique conditions on my packages and every time I build a NPC there comes a point at which I've added another package and have to massage the list to keep all packages working.

 

 

 

Oh dear, thanks for the left/right arrow keys knowledge... we really need a full cheat sheet for keyboard commands and shortcuts for GECK. I started one for the Render Window if anyone wants to contribute. It's nice to have a single printable document instead of having to scour the forums and GECK wiki.

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Eu9noTFp42ukdF-k96P5uReJVKkHjZDcV-RA4S2k5DE/edit

 

I recently found the menu to change key bindings in GECK too so I will add the missing stuff from that.

 

 

That's a good list!

 

Working solo is one of my least favorite things about modding. Sharing knowledge, experience, ideas, etc is difficult to do.

[RoyBatterian]

 

Working solo is one of my least favorite things about modding. Sharing knowledge, experience, ideas, etc is difficult to do.

 

Well this is a great way to do it. ;)

[Fallout2AM]

 

 

 

 

Packages conditions help you a lot with that, using univoque conditions makes that order not really necessary.

 

That's kind of sloppy though when the packages are evaluated in order from top to bottom.

 

Yeah, I wouldn't depend on unique conditions alone to determine if a package will work. I always use unique conditions on my packages and every time I build a NPC there comes a point at which I've added another package and have to massage the list to keep all packages working.

 

Because I guess we have different definition of that. You probably are referring to verify a single condition and not deny another one, while I mean putting the packages in a condition to be verified only in a single case, while the rest of the conditions are false. I guess it depends case by case, in how the mod's planned. I'm working with hundreds top-down branches in this period, I'm letting arrays to help me keeping some order because I'm losing myself among them... but fortunally, true and false (and math in general) never lie, they always work and I still have never had the pleasure to test a sloppy result in game

[llamaRCA]

 

 

 

 

 

Packages conditions help you a lot with that, using univoque conditions makes that order not really necessary.

 

That's kind of sloppy though when the packages are evaluated in order from top to bottom.

 

Yeah, I wouldn't depend on unique conditions alone to determine if a package will work. I always use unique conditions on my packages and every time I build a NPC there comes a point at which I've added another package and have to massage the list to keep all packages working.

 

Because I guess we have different definition of that. You probably are referring to verify a single condition and not deny another one, while I mean putting the packages in a condition to be verified only in a single case, while the rest of the conditions are false. I guess it depends case by case, in how the mod's planned. I'm working with hundreds top-down branches in this period, I'm letting arrays to help me keeping some order because I'm losing myself among them... but fortunally, true and false (and math in general) never lie, they always work and I still have never had the pleasure to test a sloppy result in game

 

 

My opinion on relying on unique conditions alone is about the exceptional case, not the usual case.

 

This is my perspective:

 

A unique condition on a package in the NPC list is only useful if it is set to 1 when all other NPC-list package unique conditions are either at 0 or are set to 0. Say I have 10 packages in the list and a unique condition for each one. I set one condition to 1 at a time while all other possibles are at 0. The list evaluation handles the rest to get the NPC into the correct package at the correct time (I've scripted it, but once I evp the NPC it's up to the list to run like it should). If only one package can possibly be picked at a time based on unique conditions, then it should pick the correct package every time.

 

However, there are times when a package is correctly built and the unique conditions are all set appropriately (1 for the package I want; 0 for all others) but the package refuses to run. The package itself isn't being applied to the NPC. The problem isn't that another package is being applied at the wrong time because of unique condition confusion. The NPC does nothing at all.

 

In that case, rearranging the list should get the package that refuses to run working. Although the package itself could be bugged and one would need to build a new package, but that happens rarely.

 

When I was first learning to mod FO3 at the beginning of 2010 it was commonly taught to new modders that list order is important.

[RoyBatterian]

I have encountered the same issue, you can have unique conditions setup in the packages, but they will fail to execute if the order is strange. It seems to be due to how things are evaluated. It also uses less game resources to evaluate as little conditions as possible, just like scripting. Also as previously mentioned, packages don't always work the same between FO3 and NV and often times don't work at all or with unpredictable results with certain flags, times or combinations there of. It can be quite frustrating to debug...

 

A companion I was working on, exhibited this very behavior. She would not wait when told to do so and would use her relax package instead, even with unique conditions setup for each package. I had to re-arrange the packages so that the wait package was near the top of the list and only checking "waiting" and the relax package checking "relaxing" instead of checking them both. When setup that way she would then pick the correct package on evp. Less seems to be more in this case.