Improving the TES combat system without overhauling it...

[rbc13183]

Okay, just to start off, I want to say that I like Oblivion’s combat. While it’s not perfect, its fun. However, because of the lack of variety in choices, it can start to get boring a lot faster than say, magic. Magic seems to have more options, more flashy stuff. Anybody who has attempted to play a 100% melee based character knows exactly what I’m talking about.

 

I’m not arguing for a complete redo of oblivion’s combat mechanics, just for adding many layers of improvements and fun additions to make it more varied and strategic. Skilled players should feel rewarded for utilizing good combat tactics while playing, and I’ve got a few ideas on how to accomplish this. And all of this can be done without resorting to a combat overhaul like the Deadly Reflexes mod does with Oblivion.

 

1. Bring back diverse weapon skills again:

 

When it comes to the weapon skill system in TES, I believe that Morrowind beats Oblivion on this one. The more divided the skills are amongst the weapons the better. For example, there should be dagger skills, sword skills, and large sword skills, NOT a single “Blade” skill. Such a system is insulting to those who appreciate melee combat in RPGs. I mean comeon…Axes in the “Blunt” skill category? Give me a break. Axes should have their own skill set. No more “streamlining” the skill system. While simplicity is a good concept, and tends to work in the TES universe, it doesn’t work across the board. Give us a more complex weapon skill system again. A character who is wielding a claymore against my thief/assassin shouldn’t be able to handle my dagger as well as I can because I my character specializes in daggers

2. Each weapon type should have its own attack animations instead of sharing its animations with other weapons.

 

This is number two for a very important reason. It goes hand in hand with number one because both of them together allow for a much more varied experience from weapon to weapon. No one should be forced to wield a dagger the same way they would wield a long sword. And I should never be forced to fight with my great axe the same way I would swing a claymore. Different types of attack animations cause the experience to be more varied everytime you pick up a different weapon type. Players who have used a long sword for most of the game SHOULD have trouble adjusting to dagger fighting. It wouldn’t be easy, because the attacks would not be the same. It would essentially be like learning a brand new fighting style.

 

Take a moment to recap on this. Imagine how varied the experience will be if you have more diverse weapon skills, coupled with different attack animations for each weapon type. This adds to replayability amongst combat styles.

 

3. Shield tactics need to be expanded

 

First, let me say that active blocking (as opposed to passive blocking) was a wonderful addition, and should remain. However, I still think that there is much more that can be done here. Here are some ideas that I think would make it more interesting and tactical. In fact, such adjustments could make shield usage unique enough to have its own skill set (separate from the “block skill”).

a. Many here have already agreed that shield bashing should be in the game. This should be one of those abilities that you gain, depending on how far up the skill ladder you are. Based upon the skill level, endurance, and fatigue of you and your opponent, it should have the chance of stunning or knocking back your opponent, giving you the chance to retreat, or follow up with a clean blow against your now-exposed opponent. Don’t forget…it can be used against you too! Strategy!

b. Beginning shield-bearers should NOT be able to handle their weapon just as well as they would if they were not bearing the shield. Novices and apprentices in the “shield skill” should suffer a minor (but noticeable) penalty to swing speed and attack power while holding a shield. Such added defense should come with sacrifice. Anybody who has ever held a sword and shield should be able to understand what I’m talking about here. However, an expert or master at the shield skill should be able to handle their weapon just as well as a non-shield bearing character (experts and masters would suffer no such penalty).

c. If you are low on fatigue, you should NOT be able to hold your shield up forever. Enough battering from a two handed weapon should eventually cause your shield arm to grow weak and lose grip of your shield, dropping it and causing the situation to shift dramatically. Of course, shield skill, strength, fatigue, and endurance would all play a roll in how much you can take before losing your grip. Fortunately, a master shield bearer won’t suffer from this problem too often. All I’m saying is just don’t think that you can easily outlast that huge warhammer wielding barbarian by simply keeping your shield up throughout the entire fight! Strategy!

 

4. Hit boxes, status effects, tactics, OH MY!

 

Yes, keep the Oblivion power attacks that Bethesda added, but another addition that would make combat much more rewarding and varied is if Bethesda spends more time implementing hit boxes all over characters and NPCs. For those who don’t know what hit boxes are, they are invisible boxes that cover different areas and body parts of characters (head, arm, chest, legs, etc). Today’s modern FPS’ (like Call of Duty for example) focus heavily on hit boxes, applying different damage values depending on where you hit your opponent.

 

In TES, I think hit boxes with the chance to inflict certain status effects or criticals (all of this depending on where you hit) would really reward tactical combat artists by allowing them to kill their opponents with finesse and skill. The only thing is that the chance for a critical or status effect would be higher or lower depending on your skill in that particular weapon. For example, let’s say you’re novice in swords. You won’t be pulling off too many hit box specific specials. But if you are highly skilled in swords, then your chances of pulling off one increase dramatically.

 

Imagine you are tearing into your opponent, and you sense that he is probably going to try to make a run for it any minute. Thinking ahead, you start aiming your sword towards his legs, cutting away until he gains a “hamstring” status effect. This will cause his leg movement to slow down for a short period of time. This effectively cuts off his option to run away, allowing you to apply the finishing touches…

 

Then there are weapon specific status effects. Hitting someone in the head with a sword should increase the chance of pulling off a critical attack, since the head is one of the most vital targets on your opponent. A blow to the head by a dagger could cause a critical, plus a gash (bleeding effect). However, hitting them in the head with a mace should have a chance to “daze” the opponent, effectively preparing him to receive another blow from your “deathstick”. Or what about slicing at your opponent’s arms, attempting to cause him to drop his weapon? And if you remember, earlier I touched on the two handed weapon’s ability to repeatedly overwhelm a shield-bearer until he drops his shield. This is what I mean by rewarding good combat tactics. I haven’t even touched on how cool such a system would work for long range weapons (bows, crossbows, and throwing weapons), but I’m sure you all can come up with some great ideas. Strategy!

 

5. The block skill should allow non shield-bearing characters to still apply a disarm technique.

 

Imagine you’re getting owned by some evil dude with a big weapon. Yet, you are highly skilled in blocking. As you see the next attack coming in, you time your block so that your sword meets his weapon at the same time. If you are skilled enough, there is a chance you can pull off the “disarm” technique. The difference between the shield disarm technique, and the weapon block disarm skill is that with a weapon, you can’t just pull it off by holding the block button. You have to time your block so that your weapon meets the attack at the same time, parrying the weapon from your opponent’s hands. Strategy!

 

6. Armor and clothing should play an even bigger role in combat advantages and disadvantages

 

The character wearing no armor should be MUCH faster than the dude who is a novice in heavy armor, yet wearing full plate. Despite the added protection, he will likely get owned because he can’t keep up with the speedy duelist. If the novice armor guy wants to be able to move a lot faster in his full plate, he will need to increase his heavy armor skill, and his strength. However, even after he maxes his skill out and starts moving much faster, there should still be a slight difference in his attack speed and the non-armor wearer’s attack speed. Non-armor guy should still be a little bit faster, especially if he is wielding a dagger or short sword, and is skilled with the weapon. But heavy armor guy can now at least keep up with him, well enough to use his protection and improved speed to his advantage.

(Such a system would even allow players to play as “BladeMaster” kind of characters who wear no armor, but use long and maybe even two handed swords with speed and finesse.)

 

7. Certain weapon types should have weapon specific power attacks that exploit that particular weapon’s advantages.

 

Don’t need to elaborate too much here. Think about it. Imagine getting surrounded while wielding your twohanded great sword. You take your great sword and form into a brief 360 degree slash, lashing out at your attackers in one quick swipe, while protecting your flank. Or imagine going up against that annoying dude with the long reach weapon while you are wielding a small dagger. While you are skilled with the dagger, it’s difficult to get within melee range without getting pummeled by your opponent. You poison your dagger and launch forward with a leaping thrust of your blade, and within the same motion, bounce backwards, allowing you to apply a sort of “stick and move” tactic, while injecting that deadly poison into your opponent’s blood stream. Strategy!

 

Thoughts? Modifications? Additions?

[Swordfish42]

Honestly, I really like it. I remember ripping vardenfell apart with my spear weilding argonian. And more strategies and tactics would be brilliant. I thnk Bethesda could learn a lot from the deadly reflex mod.

[Dicecaster]

While I agree with pretty much all that you have to say, I disagree with you on #5. If your block skill is high enough, using a shield probably won't give you enough of a bonus to matter against most creatures (except with really big, tough creatures). Therefore, if they changed it so you could disarm the same way with/without a shield, shields would become arbitrary items later on in the game. However, with the current system, there's still a reason to keep a shield throughout the entire game (that is, an acceptable trade-off for restricting you to one-handed weapons). Admittedly, I've never really used a character who uses Block as a major skill, so I can really only give you an educated guess.

[Deleted1848331User]

Right now I'm just jpoing its combat isn't anything like Morrowind's. You couldn't hit anything lol *swings spear from 2 inches away* "How the hell did I miss that kwama?!"

[Jagermh]

Honestly, I really like it. I remember ripping vardenfell apart with my spear weilding argonian. And more strategies and tactics would be brilliant. I thnk Bethesda could learn a lot from the deadly reflex mod.

 

If you stand behind a particular table in the vault in vivec with a long weapon the guards cant get you and you can poke them to death and take all the phat lewts

[LordWushin]

Deadly reflex is revolutionary to Oblivion. Not only did it give us new methods of attacking and defending, it gave us, me at least, to play Oblivion over and over again!

 

I hope Beth does a little slice of deadly reflex at least - got to leave room for the mods! :biggrin:

[Frank327]

Hey, first time poster here, and I have some additions.

 

About the difference between blade, blunt, axe etc.:

I dont mind the separation of skills much, I'm fine if it stays the same. What I do mind is that fighting with a warhammer or waraxe looks and feels exactly the same as fighting with a claymore. What's more important to me is not the separation of skills, but the separation of weapons. For example blades would get high base damage, but would obviously be weak against highly armoured opponents (including skeletons). On the other hand, blunt weapons would be a bit weaker against unarmoured opponents, but it would be way easier to make opponents stumble by striking them, breaking through blocks, and it would negate a part of the opponents armour (let's say 20% of it). Then axes would be sort of a middle ground between the two.

 

Skills wise, with the rise of your blade skill would come a bit higher damage, but mostly it would allow you to fight at a higher pace. It would reduce the flinching time after you hit a block, it would make powerattacks quicker and moves (blocking, swinging, powerattacks) would flow into eachother much better. It would allow you to outpace other fighters at higher levels to make up for the fact that you're going to have a hard time breaking their blocks.

 

Axes and blunt skill on the other hand, would mainly improve damage and ability to break through someone's blocks. Its a simpler and less subtle fighting style, but effective nonetheless. It's just that against a blade fighter you'll take a lot of hits because he basically outspeeds you.

 

Also make parries more effective if you time them right and less effective if you're just holding up your weapon. And don't allow daggers to always block warhammers. Breaking through a block should be an option if you've got enough strength and a big enough weapon.

[TheCalliton]

just add stuff like form deadly reflex

[Deleted1848331User]

Hey, first time poster here, and I have some additions.

 

About the difference between blade, blunt, axe etc.:

I dont mind the separation of skills much, I'm fine if it stays the same. What I do mind is that fighting with a warhammer or waraxe looks and feels exactly the same as fighting with a claymore. What's more important to me is not the separation of skills, but the separation of weapons. For example blades would get high base damage, but would obviously be weak against highly armoured opponents (including skeletons). On the other hand, blunt weapons would be a bit weaker against unarmoured opponents, but it would be way easier to make opponents stumble by striking them, breaking through blocks, and it would negate a part of the opponents armour (let's say 20% of it). Then axes would be sort of a middle ground between the two.

 

Skills wise, with the rise of your blade skill would come a bit higher damage, but mostly it would allow you to fight at a higher pace. It would reduce the flinching time after you hit a block, it would make powerattacks quicker and moves (blocking, swinging, powerattacks) would flow into eachother much better. It would allow you to outpace other fighters at higher levels to make up for the fact that you're going to have a hard time breaking their blocks.

 

Axes and blunt skill on the other hand, would mainly improve damage and ability to break through someone's blocks. Its a simpler and less subtle fighting style, but effective nonetheless. It's just that against a blade fighter you'll take a lot of hits because he basically outspeeds you.

 

Also make parries more effective if you time them right and less effective if you're just holding up your weapon. And don't allow daggers to always block warhammers. Breaking through a block should be an option if you've got enough strength and a big enough weapon.

 

Those are good ideas. And for daggers and shortswords, you'd THINK the dagger would break under the pressure of a warhammer/claymore/axe :huh: Wouldn't you?

 

All I really care about in the new combat system is some spears heheheh. Morrowind is a lot more fun for me because I stab them with spears lol.

[Jagermh]

Hey, first time poster here, and I have some additions.

 

About the difference between blade, blunt, axe etc.:

I dont mind the separation of skills much, I'm fine if it stays the same. What I do mind is that fighting with a warhammer or waraxe looks and feels exactly the same as fighting with a claymore. What's more important to me is not the separation of skills, but the separation of weapons. For example blades would get high base damage, but would obviously be weak against highly armoured opponents (including skeletons). On the other hand, blunt weapons would be a bit weaker against unarmoured opponents, but it would be way easier to make opponents stumble by striking them, breaking through blocks, and it would negate a part of the opponents armour (let's say 20% of it). Then axes would be sort of a middle ground between the two.

 

Skills wise, with the rise of your blade skill would come a bit higher damage, but mostly it would allow you to fight at a higher pace. It would reduce the flinching time after you hit a block, it would make powerattacks quicker and moves (blocking, swinging, powerattacks) would flow into eachother much better. It would allow you to outpace other fighters at higher levels to make up for the fact that you're going to have a hard time breaking their blocks.

 

Axes and blunt skill on the other hand, would mainly improve damage and ability to break through someone's blocks. Its a simpler and less subtle fighting style, but effective nonetheless. It's just that against a blade fighter you'll take a lot of hits because he basically outspeeds you.

 

Also make parries more effective if you time them right and less effective if you're just holding up your weapon. And don't allow daggers to always block warhammers. Breaking through a block should be an option if you've got enough strength and a big enough weapon.

 

Those are good ideas. And for daggers and shortswords, you'd THINK the dagger would break under the pressure of a warhammer/claymore/axe :huh: Wouldn't you?

 

All I really care about in the new combat system is some spears heheheh. Morrowind is a lot more fun for me because I stab them with spears lol.

 

Warhammers should deal armour-ignoring impact damage