Max number of mods

[Isabelxxx]

Hours I have spent installing one, two and thousands of times the invalidation bsa because the tests were showing that it was not working properly. Then, revising the mods because the errors described here could not be caused only by a wrong archive invalidation system...

Finally I have the answer, after deactivating all the mods and then activate them in reduced groups I have noted that there is a limit where it's not supposed to be.

 

I have not found any info related with a max number of mods in FNV but considering it should be similar to Fallout or Oblivion I hoped it could manage up to ~255 files.

 

The test have been made in many scenarios with different files, there is no doubt about it: the limit is 150. Below fallout limits.

Check the screen-shoots to see the effects in the same situations.

 

 

FalloutNV.esm

Military Explansion Program.esm

Inventory Access.esm

More Perks.esm

FalloutNV_Camera_Control.esm

RBX.esm

Caliber.esm

Reload.esp

Rearm.esp

Playthings.esm

wsex.esm

Lings.esm

RRCompanionVault.esm

CaravanPack.esm

TribalPack.esm

ClassicPack.esm

MercenaryPack.esm

Active Wasteland.esm

AWorldOfPain(Preview).esm

IWS-Core.esm

Compiled Patch.esp

NV_FixPack_Items.esp

Gomorrah3rdFloor.esp

Automated Reloading Bench.esp

RBX Caliber compatibilty.esp

Quest Items - Non-Essential and Categorised.esp

RNVExtended[20]v3b1.esp

Guns_challenge_and_perk_fix.esp

Purge Cell Buffers.esp

KillableKids_NE.esp

Armor Replacer Child NPC Fix.esp

weathersnotstuck.esp

T3BBN Old Women.esp

nocol.esp

DarNifiedUINV.esp

Readius_NV.esp

NoUndiscoveredCompassMarkers.esp

StripMarkers21603.esp

ManualReload.esp

HotkeysRebind.esp

Sprint Mod.esp

Lever Rifle fire rate slow.esp

BoostedSkills.esp

CompanionDe-Equip.esp

GibsonDogs.esp

MedGrass.esp

Realistic death.esp

RealisticStealthArmor.esp

_glaunch_explosion.esp

Rebalance.esp

RearmRebalance.esp

ReSort.esp

IIWR 2.1.0.esp

Fun with Karma NV.esp

Color Me Evil.esp

Improved Non Combat XP-Orchid.esp

LogicalReputationShifts.esp

Dynamic Herbalism.esp

ChildAtHeartPerk.esp

CharacterBackgrounds.esp

WilderWasteland_SAC.esp

Free Wild Wasteland.esp

AddEmptyBottle.esp

AddLunchBox.esp

Active Wasteland - Vanilla Replacements.esp

Realistic Ingestible Metabolic Effects.esp

LMDStorageBag.esp

ED-E 3D Sound.esp

Improved Sound FX.esp

Improved Sound FX - Gunshot Distance Tweak.esp

Improved Sound FX - Weapon Sharing Fix.esp

Distant Gunfire Sound Fix V2.1 - Machienzo.esp

SecretStash80.esp

No Litter.esp

populatedcasino-light.esp

Beretta.esp

Better Binoculars High.esp

SpookyJ's LngRng GRifle.esp

TUWRM.esp

Improved Throwing1.esp

MakeGrenadeLaunchersUseful_v1.esp

DWM4A1.esp

Golden Eagle.esp

NudeRay 1.3.esp

RAKatanasMod.esp

R700.esp

ThirdLeg.esp

ImmaSightinMahLazor.esp

LightSaberMod.esp

ATT SamusZero.esp

FaithOutfit.esp

BodyJewelry.esp

Free Tribal Outfits.esp

Blackrock Mesa Outfit.esp

bzArmour.esp

Amy_Armor.esp

NWghostbodysuit.esp

DarkStalker Outfit.esp

NVLadyoutfit1.esp

iL-Camouflage Ghost Bodysuit.esp

Oblivion Conversions Merged.esp

UrgeWasterScarf.esp

PimpMyScarf_v2.esp

Alice Murray Outfit.esp

AL Black Corsetry and Blanc dress.esp

K2_NVClothes01.esp

NEVECbodysuit.esp

ATT LeatherJacket.esp

AsharasLightningItems_ForNV.esp

Neckchains.esp

T3Belts_BootsNV.esp

T3Belts_BootsNV2.esp

VegasOutfits.esp

T3T_MiscItemIconsNV.esp

Bullet Impact Increased LOD.esp

Charisma Based Follower Limit.esp

Powered Power Armor.esp

More Perks Update.esp

DK_BulletTime_NV.esp

Collectible Canteens.esp

NewVegasBounties.esp

Melee Lock-On.esp

CASM.esp

IncreasedLegion1_1.esp

NukaColaQuantum1.1.esp

Improved VATS and Autoaim fix (no VATS invincibility, no binoculars).esp

Duke Patricks - Improved Magazines.esp

CorpseEquip.esp

FlashlightNV-Performance.esp

PMT - Slower Backward Movement.esp

DN More Lights.esp

LUMENARIUM - Working Sunglasses ONLY.esp

ELECTRO-CITY - CompletedWorkorders.esp

LUMENARIUMandELECTROCITY - Nevada Skies Replacer.esp

LUMENARIUM - Bright Clear Days.esp

Nights are Darker 25%.esp

ELECTRO-CITY - Emittance.esp

CustomLighting II.esp

UnderwaterFX.esp

UWFXGodrays.esp

Vanity Camera Smoother.esp

LessIntrusiveKillCam.esp

SunnyCompanion.esp

DynamiCamera.esp

ShilohDS-Desert Succubus CORE.esp

Animated Prostitution.esp

UHNV.esp

wsex_workgirl_tryout.esp

dD - Enhanced Blood Main NV.esp

CF_FastStart.esp

 

 

In the tests I just deactivated / activated any mod from the list. Previously tested -separately- that they are working properly when not reaching the limit.

Deleting inactive an .esp has not any effect (oblivion for ex. could not manage a big number even if you have deactivated them).

 

 

Normal game-play to show that all is working If I don't reach the limit, it's not a wrong installation issue neither a mod conflict.

Total active plugins: 149

Total plugins: 198

 

http://img814.imageshack.us/img814/454/screenshot5hr.th.jpg

 

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/8915/screenshot7wg.th.jpg

 

http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/3134/screenshot6ui.th.jpg

 

 

 

 

In my tests I'm experiencing serious issues with some less than 250: 150

Total active plugins: 150

Total plugins: 198

 

At 150 some textures and meshes start to be shown wrongly.

The sound from some effects -shots, grenades- have disappeared.

The game "still is stable".

 

 

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/9526/screenshot00.th.jpg

 

 

 

Total active plugins: 151

Total plugins: 198

 

Previous problems are present problems.

Animations doesn't work at all. NPCs have strange behaviors ( suddenly a worker becomes wolverine, his hands have grown and now are claws, not a joke but I forgot to take a screen shot)

Pip boy has flown.

Exclamation marks everywhere. Even if a mountain should not have anything but the rocks: dont worry, there it is your exclamative friend.

Vats doesn't work, a short-circuit.

Pressing escape doesn't open the menu; to be more specific, in fact there is not a menu working.

Not stable but I can not quit, press ctrl+supr and...

 

 

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/9243/screenshot1yu.th.jpg

 

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/3310/screenshot2co.th.jpg

 

http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/5219/screenshot3mw.th.jpg

 

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/1561/screenshot4ui.th.jpg

 

EDIT: Other user experiencing the same issues at 150: Game screwing up in textures & sound

 

 

 

So back to the problem, what I'm experiencing is after awhile, in the outdoors, my sound is still around, except for weapon sounds as in they fire silently.... Not only that modded weapons either get haywire textures or becomes invisible in FPS and a large red box in third person. When I kill someone during this period, the blood is just red squares. I also can't open boxes, as in I press E and the box opens and closes but the inventory does not appear. Its not possible for me to even hit ESC as well and I have to end task instead of hit quit normally...

 

It doesn't start indoors, but once it starts outdoors it affects the interiors as well when I enter the cell. Also, inventory for crates appear when I load to another cell (like interiors through doors).

 

Edited December 20, 2010 by Isabelxxx

[secksegai]

You really can't make a judgement of compiling random mods. You've got to consider what each mod affects, what each mod changes, and just how many conflict with each other.

 

If you were to test this by changing a single setting change in each esp, you'd get a far more accurate number on just how many "mods" the game can run with. You have to keep in mind with your tests the mods have varying sizes and effects, far from a scientific method of testing.

 

Also, you fail to consider how the machine itself plays a role, installed memory, cache settings and the like.

 

Considering each mod is a change or list of changes to the original "library", it would make sense that for the sake of performance that you streamline the number of added references, as its a lot easier if all the answers are in "one book" as opposed to a main book with a few hundred leaflets.

[Isabelxxx]

You have not read anything but the conclusions... or, am I so bad explaining anything?

 

I have tested the mods one by one, then by groups; there are no conflicts between them. At 149 I could add an empty .esp -which I have done- and I would see the same issues.

Mods are not conflicting neither provoking errors except when I reach the limit .

When I post this is because I'm pretty sure that the hardware & software are not a limitation (core i7, 12GB ram, ....)

 

Believe it or test it by yourself, I don't need an explanation about how to test it.

Edited December 20, 2010 by Isabelxxx

[secksegai]

You have not read anything but the conclusions... or, am I so bad explaining anything?

 

I have tested the mods one by one, then by groups; there are no conflicts between them. At 149 I could add an empty .esp -which I have done- and I would see the same issues.

Mods are not conflicting neither provoking errors except when I reach the limit .

When I post this is because I'm pretty sure that the hardware & software are not a limitation (core i7, 12GB ram, ....)

 

Believe it or test it by yourself, I don't need an explanation about how to test it.

 

How can you test a mod for conflicts if you don't know what they change? Unless you're using a utility that verifies that no two esps/esms are modifying the same data, like maybe Fnvedit (which should be doing that I believe). If you used all blank esps, then you'd at least have a control somewhere as opposed to so many possibilities of random chaos. There's no legitimate way to completely test a mod to be bug free unless its something simple like perk every level (again one of those single variable changes) as it has a minimal impact. New patches can create problems for scripts that worked fine before.

 

I'd never feel the need to test it because I'd never need that many mods. Considering how many things are STILL broken in the actual game, how can you believe that your mods are issue free? If the source material is flawed....

 

I just find it odd you think you've "fully" tested your mods when Beth couldn't even fully test the vanilla game. Your method of testing is flawed as you have no control, just a mix of mods with plenty of potential to break in various ways. While you may believe you're tests are sound, considering how many issues pop up in mod troubleshooting, let alone regular troubleshooting -- claiming for certain is overshooting your findings. I'm not disagreeing with you in that 150 is the breaking point, I'm disagreeing with you as you claim its the case for everyone without confirming it on multiple systems of different configurations. Some people never have a problem, some people have nothing but - you can't assume your experience is the only one.

[hrodulf]

@Isabelxxx :thumbsup:

 

 

I have been experiencing this exact same problem for the last three days.

 

My load order amount increased from 142 to over 150 after my last mod batch add-on.

 

After that I started losing mod textures and meshes at random.

 

I'd load a interior and everything would be fine, on crossing through into an exterior I'd start losing objects, clothes, weapons etc.

 

After saving and reloading several times I noted that the errors only had one thing in common, everything was mod added content or texture replacers.

 

I first assumed that fomm's archive invalidation was broken, so I first tried an alternate archive invalidation utility and after that didn't work, I manually added every single modded texture and mesh to the invalidation txt file.

 

Once I'd made sure the Archive invalidation wasn't the problem, I removed several graphical mods including but not limited to FNVShaders and the ATI D3D performance fix

 

packaged with the lite version.

 

This did not solve my problem. :wallbash:

 

I then reinstalled New Vegas, went through my ini files, updated my motherboard drivers and BIOS along with the newest ATI drivers for my GPU. :sweat:

 

I removed my anti-virus software and cleaned my system services just for posterity's sake.

 

I thought a mod conflict was unlikely, because I am in the habit (since oblivion) of going through my load order with an editor (FNVedit in this case) and manually removing\resolving mod conflicts after I install a new mod.

 

Regardless, I fired up FNVedit again and went through everything again.

 

No visible conflicts found. :wallbash:

 

I remembered reading a post on fallout 3, stating it had a mod limit of 250.

 

I suspected there was a chance this was causing my problem but since the 250 limit was a lot higher that my 150+ mods I disregarded my suspicions.

 

Up until late last night I was still stumped, so I thought I'd check the rest of the forum posts today.

 

Lo and behold. :woot:

 

It seems my suspicions where correct. FNV can't handle my load order.

 

Thanks for your efforts and more importantly for posting your findings on the forums. Without which I would have nothing to compare my own experiences with. Kudos added.

 

I'm at work at the moment, but as soon as I get home I'll fire up FOMM and kills some of my mods or maybe merge a few of them if I can.

 

I will post my results here when I'm done.

 

 

@secksegai :down:

 

 

Whether you think Isabelxxx's methods of conflict troubleshooting was ineffective (in which case I disagree) or not is irrelevant .

 

In this case, she (I'm assuming it's a she) followed a process of elimination that led her to the right results.

 

Then she made the effort of posting her methodology and findings here.

 

Thus adding value to this forum and the Fallout NV modding community as a whole.

 

....

 

You on the other hand, did not.

[hrodulf]

I merged my bugfixes into a single .esp and shaved off several non-critical mods.My Load order now stands at 120.

 

Play-tested the load order for an hour straight without any missing meshes\textures.

 

Planning on consolidating my gameplay tweaks into one solid archive which should further reduce my load order number.

 

@Isabelxxx

 

Thanks again for this post. It helped a lot. :)

[KaelynZ]

Just a note from my own experience - the limit on the number of mods is NOT a fixed number like 150, as I first ran into this exact same problem at 208 mods. For me, 207 mods were working fine, but as soon as I added to 208th, the game would flake out showing textures and lose my ESC key, just as described. I reduced below 207, the problem went away. Then, sometime later, after I got in the habit of merging small small mods and only keeping larger ones as separate esps, I started running into the same problem at about 175 mods. I've been running at 160+ mods for some time with no problems, though.

 

I also understand that there is also a known problem with having too many *unused* esps in the data folder, somewhere in the 300+ range. I have avoided this problem by using the Auto-ghost feature of Wrye Flash, which secretly renames unused (or merged into a based patch) esps to have the extension '.ghost', so FNV does't even see them as possible mods.

[Floatsup]

Have you tried FNVEdit. At all, thats a great tool.

 

Heres the link

 

http://www.newvegasnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=34703

[quicksilverva]

i ran into the issue at 148

[Kenzen]

I have the same problem exactly with the number of mods, the sound of walking goes silent and the pip-boy screen becomes pink, furthermore the save and load of the game files show Corrupt in all the slots. If I disabled some of the active mods things go back to normal again, but not entirely, depending on the number of active mods disabled. Also most of the time when a new area is loaded some textures become missing from the NPCs and/or the surroundings. I tried merging for instance the armors into one ESP but with no avail.