Valve/Bethesda announce paid modding for Skyrim, more games to follow

[badiyee85]

1. When modders "sell" mods, we users becomes customers. We expect things to run PERFECT on day 1. What are the customers' rights? I don't know, especially as I'm not from the USA.

 

2. If a modder sells bad mods, expect 50% of their revenue to be wasted on PR and HR where they'll have to hire people to explain why their mods are broken, etc.

 

3. Selling mods is a bane to the industry as a whole. Look at Ubifail and their AC series, you'll see that the pattern is replicated with the Steam-Bethesda model. Except, the users and modders do all the hard work, and they earn the lion's share shaking their legs.

 

4. In the case of SKYRIM, SKSE, Mod Organizer, BOSS, LOOT, and slider base mods should license themselves and say "we don't allow those who sell mods to USE our products". THIS IS A MUST. Not sure about other games though.

 

5. No guarantee in quality despite paid.

[TheSovietPenguin]

A few interesting caveats about this situation:

 

-Modding is a highly competitive scene, so there isn't much stopping people from deciding not to pay the money (however small the price), and instead looking for an alternative. For example, the "Purity" mod that is currently part of the workshop launch bundle is very similar to Climates of Tamriel and ENB, so what's stopping me as a mod user to go install one of the free alternatives? A short amount of time, and little else. Another example: iNeed. What's stopping me from downloading the slightly older, free version, or Realistic Needs and Diseases or Imp's More Complex Needs? Again, very little.

 

-Subscription rates for paid mods aren't particularly high. Chesko's Arissa mod has only .006% downloads compared to it's overall number of views, compared to roughly 14% downloads-to-views on the nexus; the free version. Even if we multiply the steam version's statistics by 13 (representing months since Arissa's first release on nexus), it still doesn't come near the free version. Additionally, what's stopping me from downloading a similar mod such as Vilja or Sofia? Not much, and this is a chesko mod we're talking about here. It's the same for most paid mods on the workshop. Point is, these mods are competing with free, and it's pretty damn hard to compete with free.

 

-What's stopping mod authors from pulling mods from the nexus and limiting them to the pay-walled workshop? Not much. Take Skyforge Weapons, for instance. The mod was available on nexus a week ago, and now it isn't. It is now an "unreleased" (for lack of a better term) state on the workshop, behind a $1.99 USD paywall. Is a weapon pack worth $1.99 to the average consumer? I don't have the statistics to confirm that.

 

-Valve's handling of this new system was awful. Seriously. It's a PR disaster. The last thing you as a publisher or developer is the entire modding community raging at you, and that is exactly what is happening right now. Valve probably should have made a news announcement about this far sooner and allowed people to think about it. Instead, they just quickly sprung this whole thing on everyone and invited an internet riot. Riots aren't good for business.

 

-A donation system would have been far more ideal. Mainly because from a consumer standpoint, spending money is bad. Therefore, people will always look for the cheapest option for the best quality that matches their needs. This is why the 99-cent stores exist. However, if Valve had set this up a donation system for mods, spending money for these mod authors would be seen as a good thing - a righteous and generous use of the consumer's money instead of a flat paywall. Although, Valve likely wouldn't be able to justify taking 75% of the profits in that kind of system. Furthermore, I don't know the overall effectiveness of a donations system, so take that as you will.

 

Overall, I'd say it isn't a very good idea for mod-makers to put their mods behind a paywall, because someone could just download a comparable mod for free and not think twice about it. Chesko's "Early Access Modding" system seems like the best alternative, but he's still splitting his followers and reducing mod feedback. I could go deeper into the impact of this on the modding culture (and it is severe), but this post is alread a great wall of text, so I won't.

 

If you've read this far, then I congradulate you for reading through my endless ramblings.

[dinofinder]

While I may not be happy with how Valve is going about it, I do support mod makers like Chesko and others who have been, and still will be, giving us all great mods to improve on our overall game experiences. I would gladly pay for some of the mods on there just to help give these mod makers even in the slightest bit to show them that I am grateful and appreciate their work for what they have done.

[Tantalus010]

In response to post #24574734. #24574879, #24574969, #24574999, #24575194, #24575309 are all replies on the same post.

Apollodown wrote:

akkalat85 wrote: I love you Apollodown. You are respected for your work, and your stance on this.

CaedesAposis wrote: Now goddammit Apollodown, now I have to respect you even more for your work. How the HELL do you do that?

colinswrath wrote: Dear god thank you. The greed in this world is unreal, charging for mods we don't even know what the files consist of, or even the quality of the mod.

CaptainGame wrote: So shines a good deed in a weary world.

I think this whole scheme is going to fall through simply because of sorts like you - sorts who are either doing this for the art alone or want a more fair and reasonable method of receiving compensation. They can't get you to make DLC for them if you don't let them.

Godspeed.

guiaugu132 wrote: Here Apollodown , have a kudos :)

Thank you, man.

As someone who mostly downloads but has made a few mods of his own (though none anywhere near as good as yours), I am also against selling my work, and I'm even more against someone else profiting off of it. It's very shady to me for Valve and Bethesda to take a (majority, even) cut of someone else's work. Yes, the mods wouldn't be possible without Bethesda's tools and wouldn't be sold on the marketplace without Valve. However, you don't see the clerk at an artist's shop asking for a cut of the proceeds of every work of art created with one of their paintbrushes. That's just lunacy. If Bethesda wanted to charge for the Creation Kit, I would understand and be okay with that - but taking a cut of every mod sold is flat out wrong.

[Explosive196]

In response to post #24574924. #24574934, #24575224, #24575324 are all replies on the same post.

Explosive196 wrote:

starfis wrote: This will make Nexus stronger.

ScrollTron1c wrote: Until Skyrim only launches with mods from the official Steam Workshop.

Lordkabal26 wrote: Until Authors start pulling mods from the Nexus in favor of paywalling them. Valve and Bethesda need to be ashamed of this.

That's pretty much my point. What's to stop greedy modders from pulling their mods from the Nexus to make some bucks on Steam? The author of Wet and Cold is no longer supporting what he has here, who's next? Edited April 24, 2015 by Explosive196

[Reaper0021]

In response to post #24571929. #24572044, #24572064, #24572299, #24573824, #24573909, #24574109, #24574289, #24574414, #24574694, #24574724, #24574819, #24574964, #24575344, #24575629 are all replies on the same post.

swiftfoxmark2 wrote:

boulegue wrote: bethesda decided to legalize it

Azarakos wrote: Valve and Bethesda get 75% of the mod income, the modder himself/herself get 25%. More money to the companies.

Welcome to capitalism, brother.

boulegue wrote: a musician gets much less for their music, a developer gets much less for their work on the game, a writer gets much less for their books.....

valve is being very generous in that department

swiftfoxmark2 wrote: Yes, I know that. But I'm referring to the Nexus policy.

boulegue wrote: the nexus is probably not able to give bethesda a share or bethesda is simply not interested in it and partnered with valve

WightMage wrote: And this why self publishing books and indie record labels are all the rage now. So too should it be with mods, IMO.

boulegue wrote: in the top 15 combined print & e-book fiction bestseller list of march 2015 all are published by established publishers to lazy to look up the music charts but i could bet its similar.... selfpublished and indie labels remain a minority because they cant afford the advertising big publishers can.... just as with games.... theres a few exceptions like minecraft but even that has now a big publisher behind it now

Reaper0021 wrote: This statement is 100% wrong. I work in the "Entertainment Industry" in the 'literature' side of things. Author's don't "Get" less for their books in that capacity. Nor is it "Much Less". You claim to work in the 'industry' and if so cool. But please don't step where you have no knowledge.

boulegue wrote: the industry standart for royalties for books is 10% correct?

Reaper0021 wrote: Wrong. Dependent on several factors but not limited to: Authors previous works, legal, notoriety, part of a series/contractual, etc. Too many things to list. No, 10% is not even worth the ink.

Reaper0021 wrote: Writers i.e. Script Writers might get away with that. Think someone like "S. King, R.A. Salvatore or numerous other well known authors would settle for that? No. The amount fluctuates and is dependent on many factors.

boulegue wrote: okay none of our modders here no matter how good they are are world renown they are literally starting the business today

Reaper0021 wrote: Very true. But your statement is still wrong. You've gone from 21 posts today to your current 87. Obviously this is a subject you care about. So, let me just say this once more for your own benefit: I'm NOT against modder's making money. Hell, Bethesda should have paid some of these people out of their own pockets months ago for taking their game and breathing a whole new life into it. I'm looking at/worried about the bigger picture. I'm just that way....far thinking. What I'm afraid of is this will add fire to the current trend of "Pay to Win". An example for you: The Total War Games. Rome II, Attila....all of them have factions. Many in fact. What CA/SEGA does is cuts out the blood, gore, factions, etc. and offers them up as "DLC". Pricey in the long run. This trend needs to stop.

boulegue wrote: its actually 4am and im just unable to sleep i really dont care either way i wont buy mods on steam workshop myself i started by telling people that they could file DMCA complaints if something of their work got stolen.... and i believe i started with 2 comments yesterday just a coincedent i couldnt sleep and came here at the right/wrong time

and i 100% agree you that the pay to win & microtransaction crap has to end.... but starting a whitch hunt at the modders that are trying to make money off of it (not you but others) and others crying for the worlds end just makes it kinda entertaining i could also argue against the valve system but theres already 9000 people signing the petition and another couple hundred here and on steam being against it... very few people defending people like cheesko, isoku and blacklake that do nothing wrong

I'm on YOUR side. I agree. Modders if they want money and deserve it and CAN get it....okay. I just think better ideas are abounding about how to do it man. Much better ones that won't encourage STEAM/Valve to keep taking every damn chance to milk us for every last damn $$$ we got/get/will get.

[badiyee85]

In response to post #24571614. #24572234, #24572374, #24572469, #24572589, #24572669, #24572829, #24572854, #24572864, #24572984, #24572994, #24573004, #24573029, #24573229, #24573324, #24573399, #24573439, #24573784, #24573939, #24574029, #24574129, #24574984, #24575109, #24575614 are all replies on the same post.

KaiserDeathIV wrote:

speash wrote: Signed

ShwayNorris wrote: Signed

Kerros wrote: Signed, thank you for the link

zzjay wrote: Will do tomorrow..cant open from phone :(.

I doubt it'll help...we can simply not buy em.

groupthinker1984 wrote: Way too soon for this kind of knee jerk reaction.

I agree that this COULD be absolutely disastrous. Or it could be wonderful. Or somehow both at the same time.

MrSpanky wrote: signed. passed the 7500 mark

Rigmor wrote: Signed

Ultrametal wrote: This means nothing to Valve, they just gonna discourage people from making mods, since anyone can steal the idea and sell it with a different color.

softail4life wrote: Signed...thank you

Mindprobe24 wrote: Signed (8305)

shaithlis wrote: Signed

jradik wrote: signed

popcorn71 wrote: Sites not loading. Too many people trying to sing?

BFNord wrote: and signed. and forwarded the link to a few others. f*#@ that noise.

StackEmHigh wrote: Signed.

akkalat85 wrote: Signing...

popcorn71 wrote: Signed.

danjal wrote: Frankly, I'm not deadset against paid mods.

What I would demand is that Valve gets its ass in gear and does some quality control/assurance...
Not to mention, if I'd pay for a mod, then I would want the mod to work - which means that Steam Workshop needs to start providing adequate tools and support there aswell.

Untill such a time as that starts happening - they do not deserve this financial split.

Mindprobe24 wrote: 8,741 supporters, comme on people! SPREAD!

bloodwolf13 wrote: Signed and deleted all mods from the Valve, I was going to buy Farcry4 from there but now No way are they going to get another Dime from me.

derek6688 wrote: Signed. (9,584)

deadblood01 wrote: signed and shared

jradik wrote: 10,000 signature milestone

signed

[guiaugu132]

In response to post #24571614. #24572234, #24572374, #24572469, #24572589, #24572669, #24572829, #24572854, #24572864, #24572984, #24572994, #24573004, #24573029, #24573229, #24573324, #24573399, #24573439, #24573784, #24573939, #24574029, #24574129, #24574984, #24575109, #24575614, #24575844 are all replies on the same post.

KaiserDeathIV wrote:

speash wrote: Signed

ShwayNorris wrote: Signed

Kerros wrote: Signed, thank you for the link

zzjay wrote: Will do tomorrow..cant open from phone :(.

I doubt it'll help...we can simply not buy em.

groupthinker1984 wrote: Way too soon for this kind of knee jerk reaction.

I agree that this COULD be absolutely disastrous. Or it could be wonderful. Or somehow both at the same time.

MrSpanky wrote: signed. passed the 7500 mark

Rigmor wrote: Signed

Ultrametal wrote: This means nothing to Valve, they just gonna discourage people from making mods, since anyone can steal the idea and sell it with a different color.

softail4life wrote: Signed...thank you

Mindprobe24 wrote: Signed (8305)

shaithlis wrote: Signed

jradik wrote: signed

popcorn71 wrote: Sites not loading. Too many people trying to sing?

BFNord wrote: and signed. and forwarded the link to a few others. f*#@ that noise.

StackEmHigh wrote: Signed.

akkalat85 wrote: Signing...

popcorn71 wrote: Signed.

danjal wrote: Frankly, I'm not deadset against paid mods.

What I would demand is that Valve gets its ass in gear and does some quality control/assurance...
Not to mention, if I'd pay for a mod, then I would want the mod to work - which means that Steam Workshop needs to start providing adequate tools and support there aswell.

Untill such a time as that starts happening - they do not deserve this financial split.

Mindprobe24 wrote: 8,741 supporters, comme on people! SPREAD!

bloodwolf13 wrote: Signed and deleted all mods from the Valve, I was going to buy Farcry4 from there but now No way are they going to get another Dime from me.

derek6688 wrote: Signed. (9,584)

deadblood01 wrote: signed and shared

jradik wrote: 10,000 signature milestone

badiyee85 wrote: signed

10,232

[CaedesAposis]

In response to post #24575764.

dinofinder wrote:

So what prevented you from using the donate button on this website previously? Hmmm?

[SquirrellyOtter]

In response to post #24574834.

twisted630 wrote:

This.

It's hard to deny mod authors some form of compensation for their work... but a lot of the time, some mod creators just did it for themselves and uploaded it because their friends wanted a piece of that action; there's little-to-no follow-up support for some of those mods.

I don't think this paid-mods feature is going to be overly successful because 1) Valve is going to take a huge slice of the money, and 2) some mod authors (of all quality ranges) are going to mod for free. And there's nothing Valve can do about that.

All this is moot to me though because my copy of Skyrim is permanently borked, CTD's five min after game start without fail. So I'm on my way out anyway. S a d b o y s