Valve/Bethesda announce paid modding for Skyrim, more games to follow

[volsfan8076]

Sucks to see you have to cancel your planned vacation Dark0ne, but after seeing all the hate over on the Workshop and what has already started to creep in here you and the rest of the staff will definitely have your hands full the next few days in moderating alone, not to mention any potential problems with the Nexus stability itself. Good luck to all of the staff and moderators for what will be a very long weekend.

[Lillysdad2009]

In response to post #24578554. #24578854 is also a reply to the same post.

Lillysdad2009 wrote:

WightMage wrote: Here here!

I know if I had the money to donate I absolutely would. But for me personally at this point. Gaming isn't my first priority, I have a family to think of as many of the mod authors do. This is not exactly a hobby ya know this stuff takes real time. In today's world time is money, bruthas (and SISTAS) gotta eat. People keep mentioning Skywind and Beyond Skyrim I would honestly be disapointed if they finish...... Which I am starting to have my doubts about btw, but that's another forum all together. I would be extremely disappointed if they didn't get the monetary funds to compensate them for all the work that that is going to take to finish. Donations are just not a sure thing.

[AineoftheSidhe]

In response to post #24578579.

Arutima wrote:

If the purchasable mods will be a thing, then I won't buy FO4. I'm literally running 100+ mods on Skyrim. Oblivion needed like 40 to 60+ and Morrowind uses about 15 - 30+ If I have to purchase all the mods for Fallout 4. Then I won't be buying it. I want a fun replayable game. The mods make the game. Not the other way around.

And I can't afford to pay 100$ dollars for a bunch of mods that I may or may not enjoy.

[zanity]

This is just OBSCENE.

 

1) it is ILLEGAL in almost every nation for mod authors to charge for a mod that has been developed with the understanding that it would be free, so people provided their suggestions, beta-testing, and bug-locating for NOTHING- unless said mod author reaches a FINANCIAL agreement with everyone who has had anything to do with the mod.

 

2) all mods with 'dirty' IP (you know, the ones that borrow textures, sounds, designs etc from existing sources) are highly illegal to sell UNLESS a financial agreement has been reached with the owners of the original IP

 

3) all mods that use other mods or mod resources TO ANY DEGREE are illegal to sell unless said mod author has reached a financial agreement with every person responsible for work from which the mod was derived.

 

4) any mod sold in a FIRST-WORLD nation needs to meet 'fitness-for-purpose' criteria to be legal according to trading standards laws. This whole "pay for beta access" nonsense is a legal can-of-worms that will NOT be resolved in favour of the authors offering buggy/unfinished product.

 

5) the above points mean that the only LEGAL paid mods are mods with ZERO usage of other people's work or property (unless a payment for such services has been arranged) - and this most certainly excludes all significant previously free mods (or their new versions) currently sold on steam. Such clean legal mods can now be created from scratch, of course, so long as strictly LAWFUL mod development methods are now followed.

 

But modders are usually working outside the field of strict lawfulness, which matters little when the mods are given away. The moment any payment is required, modding moves from an 'anything goes' situation to the strict legal liability of any commercial software production.

 

The 'wet and cold' mod, for instance, incorporates the intellectual property of many people who freely made improvement suggestions or helped locate bugs. Suggestions and bug finding are also acts of INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY. Commercial software developers are legally required to inform people providing 'free' input BEFORE they do so that such input may be used by the commercial developer without recompense. This did not happen with mods first offered on this site, because the EXPLICIT legal understanding was that the people freely helping the mod author would receive FREE access to any future version of the mod.

 

It is disgusting that Bethesda and Valve haven't banned pre-existing mods (even if the mod has a 'new' steam version) and launched the mod store with an education campaign for would-be paid mod authors that explains what is legal and what is illegal and highly dishonest.

 

Paid mods MUST be made with the same legal scrutiny as commercial games- the moment money is demanded, any 'amateur' excuse vanishes. The grand collaborative mods, where there is a complex tree of relationships between all the people who end up contributing, could NEVER be legally commercial- but these projects will die very quickly as the best modders see that Bethesda rewards the con-artists, and the people selling trivial rubbish that required 2 hours of work.

 

Paramount and Lucas Films allow any Tom, Dick or Harriet to use their Star Trek or Star Wars IP so long as no commercial profit is made (and certain reasonable rules are followed). But if you wish to make money using these IP's, the rules and restrictions are insanely strict and draconian. Bethesda should follow this strict legal model, but the games industry is laughable when it comes to being professional.

 

If Bethesda wants to make extra cash from Fallout or Skyrim, let them act like adults, and take PROPER legal responsibility for fully authorised content made to enhance their games. Let them provide the legal services to ensure the mods are compliant with all aspects of the law, and let them take legal responsibility for the required bug-free nature of the mods.

[Nichoice]

=> https://steamcommunity.com/app/72850/discussions/0/611704730313333429/

 

This is the reason why introduction a paywall is an incredibly stupid idea.

 

I don't know if Chesko meant to steal the work of others or whether it was just an oversight on his behalf, but seeing as he is a prominent modder I am going to give him the benefit of the doubt because I still appreciate the time and effort he put in to his mods.

 

Nevertheless, if Valve is to take a 75% profit from the modders then Valve should owe both modders and gamers alike an active responsibility to verify and authenticate mods before they are published and to provide support for the mods.

 

Modders not providing support for mods are acceptable because they are not receiving any monetary gains for their work and are only distributing them as is for the general populace to use for the sake of enjoyment. However once a modder receives monetary gains then they have an active responsibility to ensure that their mod is in working order and that further support is provided to ensure that the mod is working.

 

Contrary to donations which are in part largely voluntary, do not create a relation of Vendor and Purchaser.

 

In addition, the Steam Workshop has a reputation of being a cesspool for every average Joe to take the work of others and upload them first. Introducing a paywall will only create incentive for those to continue stealing the works of others.

 

The modding community have already seen the loss of many a modders due to the stealing of work, but never have they been for monetary value.

 

 

[Hoamaii]

In response to post #24578069. #24578114, #24578164, #24578219, #24578734, #24578914, #24579054 are all replies on the same post.

WightMage wrote:

Salzber wrote: Doesn't change him agreeing and joining to begin with.

Arendella wrote: He may of had a choice and his own choice to put his mod there and such, but there is no excuse for what he did. I'm sorry but I won't use his mods anymore and I will tell others to not support it as well. In terms of business, all it takes is bad reputation to outweigh the good ones.

WightMage wrote: I'm not saying that I support his decision, just been spending the past hour getting scoops and posting them here for others to read.

In other news, there's a rumor that some of the mod authors have taken to changing their Steam handles due to the sheer amount of hate they're getting.

Impulseman45 wrote: NDA my ass. There was a very simple answer to Valve and Bethesda on this and that was "NO". Absolutely not. But they chose to drink the cool aid as I like to say. They got suckered in. What did Valve do and or say to them about the other modding avenues and do they know something that they still can tell us. Like a possible total lock out of all non sanctioned Workshop mods is coming and this was the time to jump on or get out of the way. Something more is going here and these guys are not telling the whole truth about it. They know more and they cant say anything for fear of what? Getting locked out of the modding scene completely? Makes you wonder what the heck is really going on here.

Hoamaii wrote: Like I said 100 posts away, I wouldn't be surprised at all if the "agreement" offered to modders to monetize their work would be to make it a "Workshop exclusive".

Brasscatcher wrote: You've got the right of it, Hoamaii. (I owe you some screenshots, btw. CLEARSKY FRICKEN ROCKS. I wouldn't have been so stoked about trying my own hand at modding skyrim if it wasn't for sexy player homes like yours.)

I'm troubled by the POTENTIAL consequences, fiscal, legal, and political this could have on the ecosystem of modding.

My main concern is this thing is a lure for modders. There's no way ANY industry in the world would ever ever offer anything out of pure generosity.

I should know: I'm a writer, a screenwriter and I even worked in the music industry at some point. Unless they're stars, authors never get anything but crumbs - 10% on the paper, sure, but has any author been shown the real sales figures?.. If I really wanna make a living, I do advertising, all the rest is just a wreckless adventure for fun.

So the real question is what is this lure hiding that we fail to see?

[wolfpwned]

In response to post #24579034.

phantompally76 wrote:

Honestly I completely agree. This is an old game to begin with that whilst has a lot of replayability still in it, is not worth dodging shady mod dealers who steal content from the Nexus to reupload into the Workshop as well as other pitfalls I can see a mile off. The community civil war that is also going down makes me feel like this is becoming almost toxic in its outlook right from the start. You will have two sides after a while, pro-pay-2mod and anti pay-2-mod, both of which will be missing the point that this game, whilst wonderful and something we have all sunk many many hours playing, is not worth all this hatred and drama.

[AKcelsior]

In response to post #24579484.

Nichoice wrote:

wow...

[knightspk2]

In response to post #24579034. #24579529 is also a reply to the same post.

phantompally76 wrote:

wolfpwned wrote: Honestly I completely agree. This is an old game to begin with that whilst has a lot of replayability still in it, is not worth dodging shady mod dealers who steal content from the Nexus to reupload into the Workshop as well as other pitfalls I can see a mile off. The community civil war that is also going down makes me feel like this is becoming almost toxic in its outlook right from the start. You will have two sides after a while, pro-pay-2mod and anti pay-2-mod, both of which will be missing the point that this game, whilst wonderful and something we have all sunk many many hours playing, is not worth all this hatred and drama.

I've been thinking about returning myself. I don't think I could bring myself to reinstall it, but no way now.

[Nichoice]

In response to post #24578554. #24578854, #24579349 are all replies on the same post.

Lillysdad2009 wrote:

WightMage wrote: Here here!

Lillysdad2009 wrote: I know if I had the money to donate I absolutely would. But for me personally at this point. Gaming isn't my first priority, I have a family to think of as many of the mod authors do. This is not exactly a hobby ya know this stuff takes real time. In today's world time is money, bruthas (and SISTAS) gotta eat. People keep mentioning Skywind and Beyond Skyrim I would honestly be disapointed if they finish...... Which I am starting to have my doubts about btw, but that's another forum all together. I would be extremely disappointed if they didn't get the monetary funds to compensate them for all the work that that is going to take to finish. Donations are just not a sure thing.

=> https://steamcommunity.com/app/72850/discussions/0/611704730313333429/

When I posted this 6 mins ago OP wasn't banned, and now he is.

I have no problem with modders getting paid for their work, because they should be! But being paid comes with responsibilities which no body seems to want to uphold.