Valve/Bethesda announce paid modding for Skyrim, more games to follow

[WightMage]

In response to post #24578554. #24578854, #24579349, #24579589, #24579674, #24579854, #24579929, #24580014, #24580089, #24580159 are all replies on the same post.

Lillysdad2009 wrote:

WightMage wrote: Here here!

Lillysdad2009 wrote: I know if I had the money to donate I absolutely would. But for me personally at this point. Gaming isn't my first priority, I have a family to think of as many of the mod authors do. This is not exactly a hobby ya know this stuff takes real time. In today's world time is money, bruthas (and SISTAS) gotta eat. People keep mentioning Skywind and Beyond Skyrim I would honestly be disapointed if they finish...... Which I am starting to have my doubts about btw, but that's another forum all together. I would be extremely disappointed if they didn't get the monetary funds to compensate them for all the work that that is going to take to finish. Donations are just not a sure thing.

Nichoice wrote: => https://steamcommunity.com/app/72850/discussions/0/611704730313333429/

When I posted this 6 mins ago OP wasn't banned, and now he is.

I have no problem with modders getting paid for their work, because they should be! But being paid comes with responsibilities which no body seems to want to uphold.

AineoftheSidhe wrote: Mods should be donationware. Corporations can't send DMCA's and/or Cease and Desist letters to someone who happens to make mods and who also happens to accept charity from "benevolent onlookers." (:D)

I don't have much money. And I feel that having mods behind a paywall will encourage piracy. Which is ironic because:

"We think there is a fundamental misconception about piracy. Piracy is almost always a service problem and not a pricing problem," - Gabe Newell 2011

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/114391-Valves-Gabe-Newell-Says-Piracy-Is-a-Service-Problem

And this is just the start of the problem.

Did Valve/Bethesda even think about the implications or issues? If they have then I don't know what to think about them anymore?

But I think they didn't.

WightMage wrote: Maybe they just dun goofed?

Or maybe they just rushed this out the door without proper preparation. Maybe we'll find out in the coming days.

zanity wrote: The user input that helped him add features or find bugs is also INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY. He has NOT paid for these services, even though the Law requires that he does so, or informs people BEFORE they offer their input that he may exploit it for commercial gain without offering payment.

Here's how it works in the grown-up world of legally correct software houses. The people who find bugs are PAID employees. The people who make design effecting suggestions are PAIN employees. If the software house runs a forum where user input may be used to improve the product, the software house if legally obliged to state this in the terms and conditions of the forum.

Almost every significant mod on Nexus that has had more than one version has benefited from the unpaid input of those who used it and commented- and this was NOT a legal problem when future versions of the mod were to be offered for free.

I am NOT stating an opinion- I am stating a fact of LAW.

If Chesko wanted to make money from his modding, he should have created brand-new, clean-room mods that were 100% of his invention, or ownership if he started paying others for their assistance.

Too many here think that modders are somehow beyond the law, or operate in a universe where the law doesn't apply to them, simply because of the tradition of modding. Well guess what, people- when you chose to go 'commercial' , the rules change whether you like that or not.

And as with most things in life- the more complex and 'interesting' the mod, the more difficult the legal problems become.

Lillysdad2009 wrote: What really bothers me the most is that I feel like Steam and also Bethesda are doing this under the false pretense that they are helping the modding community. But what they are really doing is being greedy bastards. I mean that's the only thing I can think to say about it. I mean look at the people that are hating on Chesko right now. When all he is doing is taking advantage of an opportunity that he was offered. He didn't come up with the idea. I don't see this doing any thing for the modding community or Bethesda in the long run. It is really just tearing apart both parties. When all you can see are dollar signs as a corporation, you might as well close up shop. I guess it depends on what one considers "Success"

Lillysdad2009 wrote: I won't lie and pretend like I understood all of that. But I do agree that is another really strong point. When they go and offer their downloads on steam they work for them, there will be contracts even if only electronically there will be agreements that are going to have to be made. Therefore a lot of the "Freedom" that an uploader has here. That won't carry over to this new arrangement being offered by the workshop.

Lillysdad2009 wrote: It likely was a mistake, I have seen a few people mention that they are probably just testing the waters on a game that isn't "New" but is also still relevant to see what parts of it they could implement in the future with other releases. I really think that sounds spot on.

How much longer before the lawsuits start flinging and mod authors start issuing C&D's? Some authors have already gone into hibernation, started changing their handles, and in the case of Chesko have even had a mod taken down because Fore reported it for using his assets.

[phantompally76]

In response to post #24580064. #24580099 is also a reply to the same post.

Scyantific wrote:

omgitskarla wrote: Just read this on Skyrimmods subreddit: "I just want to emphasize the SKSE point: The SKSE creators do not care. They do not think this is a disgusting move. They do not have problems with people requiring SKSE in their paid mods. They will be making a workshop version of SKSE."

very disappointing

Aye, EXTREMELY disappointing.

That said, it's theirs to do with as they see fit.

I mean, we don't have to like it. But they don't have to give three ***** what we like, either.

[GenBloodhorn]

Got an idea, but might be bad for some, but still an idea I think should be shared.

 

how about allowing nexus to support through Ad.fly? you dont earn much, but if mods get thousands, or millions of downloads through their mods, they will earn a fair share of the money without users paying or donating. Could also be a good anti DMCA act. yes people hates ads, but hey, atleast it doesnt force anyone to pay. And it could be an optional "Supportive download manually" next to the download manually button. If anyone disagrees, comment and explain why. I don't really see why this is a bad idea at all.

[AKcelsior]

In response to post #24579484. #24579559, #24579659, #24579729, #24579749, #24579769, #24579849, #24579884, #24579969, #24580074 are all replies on the same post.

Nichoice wrote:

akkalat85 wrote: wow...

Nichoice wrote: => http://i.imgur.com/DItmsFn.jpg

OP has since been banned from Steam, and this was 6mins ago

Brasscatcher wrote: Holy s#*!. This is getting entirely out of hand. and it's freakin' DAY ONE!

I don't know whether I should grab popcorn and settle in to watch the fireworks(I suffer from acute schadenfreude), or go cry in the corner.

akkalat85 wrote: I wonder why Linear was banned though? The claim seems legit as fore openly said chesko didn't ask permission... something strange going on.

Jsmorris14 wrote: Just proof that this is what it will be like if this continues. I saved the picture

ValtielCurse wrote: Wow indeed. Fore my man!

akkalat85 wrote: It seems, at least on the surface, that Valve doesn't want the negative press from being caught letting users upload and profit off of other's free content. It's sad they would ban a user with a legit claim... This reeks of manipulation by Valve.

akkalat85 wrote: To add more controversy, the post has been deleted by mods now... I still have the picture saved though.

Ban users with legit claims backed by evidence and then delete all threads exposing it. Why Valve why?

Jsmorris14 wrote: I have a feeling valve will try to clean up any negative comments as fast as they come.
I have a week long ban for saying don't support them in monetizing mods lol

Someone had a thread with pictures of all the users banned for speaking up in threads. I could almost laugh, but this is serious. Censoring negative views. Freedom of speech? Only if your thread is positive and your speech skill > 99

Thank god the Nexus allows us to speak freely about this issue without fear of being banned for simply saying "this sucks". Edited April 24, 2015 by akkalat85

[WightMage]

In response to post #24580029. #24580144 is also a reply to the same post.

WightMage wrote:

Brasscatcher wrote: Ahhh, but that's the crux, innit? Are their motivations selfless? I for one think selflessness to be an illusion; there is always something in it for the actor, even if it's not money. I do good deeds, trivial small favors to feel good, I perform to feed my ego. My sense of humor makes me the center of attention, it wins me adulation.

Cold hard cash is the most direct form of return on investment, if not the most poetic. :D

Word.

[spydar59]

Hello My Friends, I have been reading your posts, and all of you have overlooked one thing. When you sign their digatel "contract" this is what happens. They own it. Say what you want but read the sub clauses. If you look at all the mods out there, and stack them all up, how many complete games are there? They will box up your mods, put their name on it, and sell it. The better ones will be made into DLC. And if you think you will get payed, or win in court, you got another thing coming. Who are you going to fight? Open your mouth about it and get banned. Then go try to fight that in a court. And since many of these companies are overseas, how do you win that one? They are suckering you with the oldest trick in the book, Human greed. So enjoy your pennies. They are laughing at you all the way to the bank.

[WightMage]

In response to post #24579484. #24579559, #24579659, #24579729, #24579749, #24579769, #24579849, #24579884, #24579969, #24580074, #24580224 are all replies on the same post.

Nichoice wrote:

akkalat85 wrote: wow...

Nichoice wrote: => http://i.imgur.com/DItmsFn.jpg

OP has since been banned from Steam, and this was 6mins ago

Brasscatcher wrote: Holy s#*!. This is getting entirely out of hand. and it's freakin' DAY ONE!

I don't know whether I should grab popcorn and settle in to watch the fireworks(I suffer from acute schadenfreude), or go cry in the corner.

akkalat85 wrote: I wonder why Linear was banned though? The claim seems legit as fore openly said chesko didn't ask permission... something strange going on.

Jsmorris14 wrote: Just proof that this is what it will be like if this continues. I saved the picture

ValtielCurse wrote: Wow indeed. Fore my man!

akkalat85 wrote: It seems, at least on the surface, that Valve doesn't want the negative press from being caught letting users upload and profit off of other's free content. It's sad they would ban a user with a legit claim... This reeks of manipulation by Valve.

akkalat85 wrote: To add more controversy, the post has been deleted by mods now... I still have the picture saved though.

Ban users with legit claims backed by evidence and then delete all threads exposing it. Why Valve why?

Jsmorris14 wrote: I have a feeling valve will try to clean up any negative comments as fast as they come.
I have a week long ban for saying don't support them in monetizing mods lol

akkalat85 wrote: Someone had a thread with pictures of all the users banned for speaking up in threads. I could almost laugh, but this is serious. Censoring negative views. Freedom of speech? Only if your thread is positive and your speech skill > 99

Thank god the Nexus allows us to speak freely about this issue without fear of being banned for simply saying "this sucks".

Thanks for letting me know that they deleted the thread- I still have the page up and haven't refreshed/moved it yet. Print screening everything naow.

Oh and by the way, I loved your "Insignificant Object Remover" mod! Would you be interested in creating another one?

[popcorn71]

In response to post #24580219.

GenBloodhorn wrote:

That would defeat the purpose of paying for a Nexus Premium subscription. I would be slightly pissed after paying for a life time Premium membership only to have to go through Ad.fly to get my downloads. Edited April 24, 2015 by popcorn71

[Lillysdad2009]

In response to post #24578554. #24578854, #24579349, #24579589, #24579674, #24579854, #24579929, #24580014, #24580089, #24580159, #24580169 are all replies on the same post.

Lillysdad2009 wrote:

WightMage wrote: Here here!

Lillysdad2009 wrote: I know if I had the money to donate I absolutely would. But for me personally at this point. Gaming isn't my first priority, I have a family to think of as many of the mod authors do. This is not exactly a hobby ya know this stuff takes real time. In today's world time is money, bruthas (and SISTAS) gotta eat. People keep mentioning Skywind and Beyond Skyrim I would honestly be disapointed if they finish...... Which I am starting to have my doubts about btw, but that's another forum all together. I would be extremely disappointed if they didn't get the monetary funds to compensate them for all the work that that is going to take to finish. Donations are just not a sure thing.

Nichoice wrote: => https://steamcommunity.com/app/72850/discussions/0/611704730313333429/

When I posted this 6 mins ago OP wasn't banned, and now he is.

I have no problem with modders getting paid for their work, because they should be! But being paid comes with responsibilities which no body seems to want to uphold.

AineoftheSidhe wrote: Mods should be donationware. Corporations can't send DMCA's and/or Cease and Desist letters to someone who happens to make mods and who also happens to accept charity from "benevolent onlookers." (:D)

I don't have much money. And I feel that having mods behind a paywall will encourage piracy. Which is ironic because:

"We think there is a fundamental misconception about piracy. Piracy is almost always a service problem and not a pricing problem," - Gabe Newell 2011

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/114391-Valves-Gabe-Newell-Says-Piracy-Is-a-Service-Problem

And this is just the start of the problem.

Did Valve/Bethesda even think about the implications or issues? If they have then I don't know what to think about them anymore?

But I think they didn't.

WightMage wrote: Maybe they just dun goofed?

Or maybe they just rushed this out the door without proper preparation. Maybe we'll find out in the coming days.

zanity wrote: The user input that helped him add features or find bugs is also INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY. He has NOT paid for these services, even though the Law requires that he does so, or informs people BEFORE they offer their input that he may exploit it for commercial gain without offering payment.

Here's how it works in the grown-up world of legally correct software houses. The people who find bugs are PAID employees. The people who make design effecting suggestions are PAIN employees. If the software house runs a forum where user input may be used to improve the product, the software house if legally obliged to state this in the terms and conditions of the forum.

Almost every significant mod on Nexus that has had more than one version has benefited from the unpaid input of those who used it and commented- and this was NOT a legal problem when future versions of the mod were to be offered for free.

I am NOT stating an opinion- I am stating a fact of LAW.

If Chesko wanted to make money from his modding, he should have created brand-new, clean-room mods that were 100% of his invention, or ownership if he started paying others for their assistance.

Too many here think that modders are somehow beyond the law, or operate in a universe where the law doesn't apply to them, simply because of the tradition of modding. Well guess what, people- when you chose to go 'commercial' , the rules change whether you like that or not.

And as with most things in life- the more complex and 'interesting' the mod, the more difficult the legal problems become.

Lillysdad2009 wrote: What really bothers me the most is that I feel like Steam and also Bethesda are doing this under the false pretense that they are helping the modding community. But what they are really doing is being greedy bastards. I mean that's the only thing I can think to say about it. I mean look at the people that are hating on Chesko right now. When all he is doing is taking advantage of an opportunity that he was offered. He didn't come up with the idea. I don't see this doing any thing for the modding community or Bethesda in the long run. It is really just tearing apart both parties. When all you can see are dollar signs as a corporation, you might as well close up shop. I guess it depends on what one considers "Success"

Lillysdad2009 wrote: I won't lie and pretend like I understood all of that. But I do agree that is another really strong point. When they go and offer their downloads on steam they work for them, there will be contracts even if only electronically there will be agreements that are going to have to be made. Therefore a lot of the "Freedom" that an uploader has here. That won't carry over to this new arrangement being offered by the workshop.

Lillysdad2009 wrote: It likely was a mistake, I have seen a few people mention that they are probably just testing the waters on a game that isn't "New" but is also still relevant to see what parts of it they could implement in the future with other releases. I really think that sounds spot on.

WightMage wrote: How much longer before the lawsuits start flinging and mod authors start issuing C&D's? Some authors have already gone into hibernation, started changing their handles, and in the case of Chesko have even had a mod taken down because Fore reported it for using his assets.

It is all just really over reaching on the parts of Steam and Bethesda, you would think they would know enough about mods and the system to know that really all modders share the same resources. There will continue to be and exponential rise in those cases. Some false claims and also some very real very fair cases. Because even "Original" things come from somewhere. Even if the uploaders are making original content they have to use someones tool to make them with. Then the people responsible for the tools will have claims on them also etc.. etc... It just seems like a never ending loop of a really bad idea to me. Because the most important part of a copyright infringement policy is the part that states "Used for profit." Because they might let slip usage, but once they see the money coming in from their product they are going to want some. IE the mess that youtube has going on right now, the corporations didn't care about usage of songs and clips until they saw how much money these people were bringing in and they saw an easy way to get a cut. Edited April 24, 2015 by Lillysdad2009

[Brigand231]

Note to staff: This is not condoning, advocating, or promoting what I mention in any way, merely pointing out the flaw in the system.

 

This whole idea only serves to create a new form of piracy. Folks will buy mods, change the names of assets/plugins, and then get the refund that Steam allows them within 24 hours. At that point, the individual's scruples can dictate whether or not they redistribute said files to everyone they know or not.

 

As far as I'm concerned it's business as usual for me and I expect little to change. Economics dictates prices and, in a world where some folks complain about buying ultimate editions of a game for five bucks on sale, I don't think there will be much demand for paid mods. The folks that can pay for them will if they want to.

 

I've spent the last two hours in Steam IM's about how this is going to ruin modding like it did for The Sims. I can't argue that as I wasn't around for that, but unless a game prohibits or makes it difficult for third party addons, user generated content, whatever you want to call it and furthermore referred to as "mods", it will happen and people will do it for fun. Where there is a will, there's a way and the fact that we have sections here at the Nexus for games that were never intended to be modded proves that.