Valve/Bethesda announce paid modding for Skyrim, more games to follow

[phantompally76]

In response to post #24579774. #24580049, #24580149, #24580444, #24580754 are all replies on the same post.

WightMage wrote:

marthgun wrote: its legit, i took my own personal screencaps of that. both of fore's reply saying he didn't authorize it and Chesko saying steam told him it was "fair game"

broke my heart. I hate to s#*! all over Chesko, maybe he has another side to this story, but that did not look good. It's not just Fore either, there are tons of people that worked on what i would call 'essential' utilities. without which modding your game or creating mods would be very difficult.

Jsmorris14 wrote: Its real. I was following it when he posted it.

zanity wrote: Chesko should NOT be trying to sell versions of mods previously published on Nexus, plain and simple- but in his favour is the fact that Bethesda and Valve are actively encouraging such dishonest behaviour. To be legal, Chesko MUST create mods that have ZERO prior input from people expecting the mod to remain FREE. And bug finding and feature suggestions from emails and Nexus forum posts count as input that MUST be paid for - this is a simple fact of Law.

Chesko MUST create what is known as clean-room code and content- uncontaminated from the days when assistance was provided FOR FREE by people expecting the resultant mod would be free.

It does NOT matter how many people here liked his mods, or appreciated the work he did for free. To be LEGAL, Chesko must obey the Law. And that means new work 100% (one hundred percent) of his own ownership. I would imagine 99% of all significant mod authors at Nexus are lucky if their current mod would even count as 25% of their own work when all forms of derivation and unpaid assistance are taken into account.

Bethesda and Valve are literally saying "modding is the new Wild West, so scr*w the Law, and join the goldrush"- but given that these two get the lions share of the profits, we should not be surprised- but we most certainly should be saddened.

Impulseman45 wrote: Well this sounds to me like Valve is going to cover any and all legal issues as they arise and they are basically giving a blank check for mod authors to steal anything and everything they can to make mods because they are going to protect them under the Steam Workshop umbrella. Hey folks the writing is on the wall. All our mods are open to being stolen and unless we are willing to go the Workshop, we are going to see all of our work stolen right out from under us. The next shot is going be across the Nexus bow. They are going to make the move to take total control of the modding scene and Nexus is in the way. Both Chesko and Isoku said wait 30 to 60 days for more info. I am thinking that is how long we have before the real attack begins. I hope I am wrong but the more I read and the more info comes to lite things are not looking good for the rest of us. I had a few mods I was working on and I am going to halt all of it. Because if Valve is giving permission to essentially raid and pillage other mods for content than anything I do and release is at risk and I am not willing to loose 2 1/2 years of work to some ass who comes along and steals it and posts it there and then I get shafted and not even a mention as the creator. I think that all of us that make mods or just getting started like me are going to want to wait and see how things are going to shake out. This is very scary and basically anything we do can be taken and Valve is going to protect the one they get money from not the person who did it for free or it got taken from.

I can't shake the unease of the timeliness of Chesko splitting up his bread and butter mod into three distinct mods and this Valve rollout.

But it's isoku who's really disappointed me. He's been hyping up the updates for iNeed and Wet and Cold for a long time, and never once did he mention they'd be Steam exclusives for alpha testing, at least not to my knowledge. He certainly never mentioned that there would be a fee for the privilege of getting to assist him in debugging them.

That.......just doesn't sit well with me.

It doesn't sit well with the thousands of idiots on Steam who are purposefully getting banned letting him know how upset they are, either.

[Ramon1]

In response to post #24579484. #24579559, #24579659, #24579729, #24579749, #24579769, #24579849, #24579884, #24579969, #24580074, #24580224, #24580304, #24580369, #24580559, #24580584, #24580719, #24580799, #24580859 are all replies on the same post.

Nichoice wrote:

akkalat85 wrote: wow...

Nichoice wrote: => http://i.imgur.com/DItmsFn.jpg

OP has since been banned from Steam, and this was 6mins ago

Brasscatcher wrote: Holy s#*!. This is getting entirely out of hand. and it's freakin' DAY ONE!

I don't know whether I should grab popcorn and settle in to watch the fireworks(I suffer from acute schadenfreude), or go cry in the corner.

akkalat85 wrote: I wonder why Linear was banned though? The claim seems legit as fore openly said chesko didn't ask permission... something strange going on.

Jsmorris14 wrote: Just proof that this is what it will be like if this continues. I saved the picture

ValtielCurse wrote: Wow indeed. Fore my man!

akkalat85 wrote: It seems, at least on the surface, that Valve doesn't want the negative press from being caught letting users upload and profit off of other's free content. It's sad they would ban a user with a legit claim... This reeks of manipulation by Valve.

akkalat85 wrote: To add more controversy, the post has been deleted by mods now... I still have the picture saved though.

Ban users with legit claims backed by evidence and then delete all threads exposing it. Why Valve why?

Jsmorris14 wrote: I have a feeling valve will try to clean up any negative comments as fast as they come.
I have a week long ban for saying don't support them in monetizing mods lol

akkalat85 wrote: Someone had a thread with pictures of all the users banned for speaking up in threads. I could almost laugh, but this is serious. Censoring negative views. Freedom of speech? Only if your thread is positive and your speech skill > 99

Thank god the Nexus allows us to speak freely about this issue without fear of being banned for simply saying "this sucks".

WightMage wrote: Thanks for letting me know that they deleted the thread- I still have the page up and haven't refreshed/moved it yet. Print screening everything naow.

Oh and by the way, I loved your "Insignificant Object Remover" mod! Would you be interested in creating another one?

akkalat85 wrote: Thanks Wight! No, I'm more interested in creating other things. I've got a c# app that's due for Fallout 4. It will be free and has taken a lot of hours to code. I'll never charge, even if it's a big app like what I'm talking about. I don't even have a donate button. I believe in giving back to a community that has been a special part of my gaming life since Morrowind. It's the circle of life :)

I just updated the object remover mod today though (removing thickets because...). It will continue getting small updates removing anything I find that's worthless while I play.

WightMage wrote: Coolio, stay classy mate. :3

Nichoice wrote: I have sent the following message to Chesko:

"Hi Chesko,

In light of the recent events, I wanted to send you a message.

Please note that this is not a hate mail, nor am I flaming you for your recent actions.

I truely appreciate your efforts in your Mods as Arissa have brought me hours of joy in-game.

I wanted you to know that right now I believe you are in a position to make a statement of the recent events.

I am of the firm believe that modders should be given proper appreciation of their work, however I do not agree with the model that Valve has introduced.

You can find my full post here if you wish => http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/news/12449/?page=1&sort=DESC&pid=0&thread_id=2793304&pUp=1

I believe that if Valve is to take a 75% profit form you then they should have an active responsibility in verifying, authenticating and to provide technical support for the mods.

Modders in general do not have a responsibility to update or provide support for their mods as they are distributed to the world at large as is because there is no vendor and consumer relationship created. Contrary to donations which are in part largely voluntary, do not create such a relationship.

However once money is involved, there is now a very real vendor and consumer relationship. This inherently imposes responsibilities on all parties, such as using the mod for its intended purpose, ensuring the mod is in working order etc. Analogous to purchasing a product from a store.

Nevertheless, on behalf of the community I am requesting that you sign this petition => https://www.change.org/p/valve-remove-the-paid-content-of-the-steam-workshop

And make a post telling the community at large that you have done so.

Please forward this to any other prominent modders of whom you know have taken up the offer from Valve.

Again I would like to make it clear I am not judging anyone for their actions of late, I only want whats fair and reasonable for all parties.

If any modders are unsatisfied with the appreciation in which they are receiving, marthgun in his post suggested that advertisements be introduced in downloading similar to Youtube which will allow all modders to have monetary gains for their work and effort and also not create any form of consumer vendor relationship.

I trust you can see the injustice in this and will do the right thing."

I trust anyone who reads this post and my OP above will appreciate what has happened and understand that this model introduced by Valve is not only unjust but entirely unilateral in that they take no responsibility for the mod itself yet have gained a 75% profit from the work and effort of modders.

Please do the right thing, sign the petition and lets all keep our fingers crossed!

akkalat85 wrote: @Nichoice: You bring up a decent point about updates. There is no possible way to ensure mods are properly tested, or that a mod even works, and there's definitely no guarantee that the author will ever address "game-breaking" issues.

What's to stop charlatans from promising content and then bailing? In theory I could release a mod that promises 1/4 of what I say, and Valve would host it without any sort of quality control and dupe everyone into shelling out $$$ for something that's broken, or even harmful.

I wouldn't need future investments if I can make a description good enough. I could promise you the world and deliver a log of s#*!. Take a little money and run for the hills only to resurface with more content with promises I can't fulfill...

Nichoice wrote: => https://steamcommunity.com/app/72850/discussions/0/611704730313461178/

Above OP has been permanently banned and the post deleted.

WightMage wrote: Starting to remind me a little too much of some kickstarter projects...

As much as I personally love Kickstarter, they take a very hands-off approach because they know how easy their system can be abused, and has been abused since its inception.

Managed to find two versions through google cache and saved it, at least the first page, through archive(dot)is. It's an invaluable tool in situations like this:

https://archive.is/g23Xu

https://archive.is/wGY7T

google cache versions:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:dOWCsobL4yQJ:steamcommunity.com/app/72850/discussions/0/611704730313333429/%3FinsideModal%3D1+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:P799c7lD014J:steamcommunity.com/app/72850/discussions/0/611704730313333429/+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk

PS
Instead of the emoticon it goes ": P" without spaces Edited April 24, 2015 by Ramon1

[Justanotherbrickinthewall]

In response to post #24561639.

WaRLocKThEoRy wrote:

I personally don't agree with Valve's plans, nor having to deal with a paywall.

BUT, there is no such thing as "modding for the wrong reason" that's just selfish opinion. If a mmodder is trying to making a living of their work, that's their right - and if a modder is doing jsut for shits and giggles, that's great too.

A modder's reason for modding is theirs alone, and no one elses.

That said, I would rather it be optional, rather than a paywall.

[WightMage]

In response to post #24579484. #24579559, #24579659, #24579729, #24579749, #24579769, #24579849, #24579884, #24579969, #24580074, #24580224, #24580304, #24580369, #24580559, #24580584, #24580719, #24580799, #24580824 are all replies on the same post.

Nichoice wrote:

akkalat85 wrote: wow...

Nichoice wrote: => http://i.imgur.com/DItmsFn.jpg

OP has since been banned from Steam, and this was 6mins ago

Brasscatcher wrote: Holy s#*!. This is getting entirely out of hand. and it's freakin' DAY ONE!

I don't know whether I should grab popcorn and settle in to watch the fireworks(I suffer from acute schadenfreude), or go cry in the corner.

akkalat85 wrote: I wonder why Linear was banned though? The claim seems legit as fore openly said chesko didn't ask permission... something strange going on.

Jsmorris14 wrote: Just proof that this is what it will be like if this continues. I saved the picture

ValtielCurse wrote: Wow indeed. Fore my man!

akkalat85 wrote: It seems, at least on the surface, that Valve doesn't want the negative press from being caught letting users upload and profit off of other's free content. It's sad they would ban a user with a legit claim... This reeks of manipulation by Valve.

akkalat85 wrote: To add more controversy, the post has been deleted by mods now... I still have the picture saved though.

Ban users with legit claims backed by evidence and then delete all threads exposing it. Why Valve why?

Jsmorris14 wrote: I have a feeling valve will try to clean up any negative comments as fast as they come.
I have a week long ban for saying don't support them in monetizing mods lol

akkalat85 wrote: Someone had a thread with pictures of all the users banned for speaking up in threads. I could almost laugh, but this is serious. Censoring negative views. Freedom of speech? Only if your thread is positive and your speech skill > 99

Thank god the Nexus allows us to speak freely about this issue without fear of being banned for simply saying "this sucks".

WightMage wrote: Thanks for letting me know that they deleted the thread- I still have the page up and haven't refreshed/moved it yet. Print screening everything naow.

Oh and by the way, I loved your "Insignificant Object Remover" mod! Would you be interested in creating another one?

akkalat85 wrote: Thanks Wight! No, I'm more interested in creating other things. I've got a c# app that's due for Fallout 4. It will be free and has taken a lot of hours to code. I'll never charge, even if it's a big app like what I'm talking about. I don't even have a donate button. I believe in giving back to a community that has been a special part of my gaming life since Morrowind. It's the circle of life :)

I just updated the object remover mod today though (removing thickets because...). It will continue getting small updates removing anything I find that's worthless while I play.

WightMage wrote: Coolio, stay classy mate. :3

Nichoice wrote: I have sent the following message to Chesko:

"Hi Chesko,

In light of the recent events, I wanted to send you a message.

Please note that this is not a hate mail, nor am I flaming you for your recent actions.

I truely appreciate your efforts in your Mods as Arissa have brought me hours of joy in-game.

I wanted you to know that right now I believe you are in a position to make a statement of the recent events.

I am of the firm believe that modders should be given proper appreciation of their work, however I do not agree with the model that Valve has introduced.

You can find my full post here if you wish => http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/news/12449/?page=1&sort=DESC&pid=0&thread_id=2793304&pUp=1

I believe that if Valve is to take a 75% profit form you then they should have an active responsibility in verifying, authenticating and to provide technical support for the mods.

Modders in general do not have a responsibility to update or provide support for their mods as they are distributed to the world at large as is because there is no vendor and consumer relationship created. Contrary to donations which are in part largely voluntary, do not create such a relationship.

However once money is involved, there is now a very real vendor and consumer relationship. This inherently imposes responsibilities on all parties, such as using the mod for its intended purpose, ensuring the mod is in working order etc. Analogous to purchasing a product from a store.

Nevertheless, on behalf of the community I am requesting that you sign this petition => https://www.change.org/p/valve-remove-the-paid-content-of-the-steam-workshop

And make a post telling the community at large that you have done so.

Please forward this to any other prominent modders of whom you know have taken up the offer from Valve.

Again I would like to make it clear I am not judging anyone for their actions of late, I only want whats fair and reasonable for all parties.

If any modders are unsatisfied with the appreciation in which they are receiving, marthgun in his post suggested that advertisements be introduced in downloading similar to Youtube which will allow all modders to have monetary gains for their work and effort and also not create any form of consumer vendor relationship.

I trust you can see the injustice in this and will do the right thing."

I trust anyone who reads this post and my OP above will appreciate what has happened and understand that this model introduced by Valve is not only unjust but entirely unilateral in that they take no responsibility for the mod itself yet have gained a 75% profit from the work and effort of modders.

Please do the right thing, sign the petition and lets all keep our fingers crossed!

akkalat85 wrote: @Nichoice: You bring up a decent point about updates. There is no possible way to ensure mods are properly tested, or that a mod even works, and there's definitely no guarantee that the author will ever address "game-breaking" issues.

What's to stop charlatans from promising content and then bailing? In theory I could release a mod that promises 1/4 of what I say, and Valve would host it without any sort of quality control and dupe everyone into shelling out $$$ for something that's broken, or even harmful.

I wouldn't need future investments if I can make a description good enough. I could promise you the world and deliver a log of s#*!. Take a little money and run for the hills only to resurface with more content with promises I can't fulfill...

Nichoice wrote: => https://steamcommunity.com/app/72850/discussions/0/611704730313461178/

Above OP has been permanently banned and the post deleted.

Ramon1 wrote: Managed to find two versions through google cache and saved it, at least the first page, through archive(dot)is. It's an invaluable tool in situations like this:

https://archive.is/g23Xu

https://archive.is/wGY7T

google cache versions:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:dOWCsobL4yQJ:steamcommunity.com/app/72850/discussions/0/611704730313333429/%3FinsideModal%3D1+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:P799c7lD014J:steamcommunity.com/app/72850/discussions/0/611704730313333429/+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk

Starting to remind me a little too much of some kickstarter projects...

As much as I personally love Kickstarter, they take a very hands-off approach because they know how easy their system can be abused, and has been abused since its inception.

[Richie451]

I have only been modding Skyrim (here via Nexus only) since October last year. Before that I owned and played it on PS3. So I have now purchased and own Legendary editions for 2 platforms.

 

I happily pay for Premium membership here on the Nexus; only game I have on Steam: Skyrim

 

Q: given that to run a legal copy of Skyrim you must have Steam installed, is it possible that Valve could close out mods from anywhere else running at all? - forcing everyone to their paywall (or a hacked setup which btw has not even crossed my mind (yet..)?

 

Also, and I'm sure this has been discussed at some point, is there a way that a small percentage of premium membership fee goes to not just the mod author but also any of the modders whose work it relies on - it would have to be based on a percentage per download or something and I think there would still need to be completely free mods too for general membership.

 

I would be happy to consider a higher membership fee to see the some of the amazing modders here earn something (if not a living) for their work.

[marthgun]

In response to post #24580299. #24580459, #24580464, #24580614 are all replies on the same post.

spydar59 wrote:

marthgun wrote: If a mod author chooses to do this, they are ruining their rep. They brought that upon themselves. I'm more worried about what steam / beth decide to do with those rights. What about mods that change similar things hosted on the nexus, will those mods violate their copywrite ownership?

Nexus won't be able to fight that, they'll be deleting things left and right, there will be riots.

popcorn71 wrote: Thats part of releasing a mod. You do it knowing full well that Beth can lay claim to your work but you do it anyway to make your gaming experience better.
Its something else entirely when some other modder comes along and steals your work then turns around and sells it.

Jerros wrote: I'm a mod author and I refuse to participate in this. This was not why I started modding but looks like a good time to retire from it. Sad day indeed.

@popcorn

There's a big difference though, heretofore Bethesda has had no stake in mods. They make nothing from the specifically. Now that they own a bunch of mods, will that incentive them to make absolutely sure there is no one undercutting them? will they find it economicaly viable to go after the "competition."

If this were content / quest / gameplay mods being sold, there's a tiny argument there. But this is anything goes. And as its been pointed out above, the amount of hands in the cookie jar of virutally every mod is vast. It's a slap in the face to everyone that has contributed over the years. I want to believe mod authors like Chesko were lured in unawares, maybe they thought it sounded interesting and signed up, then the ball dropped.

[Brigand231]

In response to post #24580689.

danburite2 wrote:

PM me if you need free voice actors. Both my wife and I enjoy contributing our voices to free mods and have done so many times.

[Varegi]

How about we flood the workshop with useless mods with a ridiculous pricetag, just for fun? And since the comment that posted this isn't on the first page anymore...

 

A petition against this:

 

https://www.change.org/p/valve-remove-the-paid-content-of-the-steam-workshop

 

go sign it.

[knightspk2]

In response to post #24580764.

ILSATS wrote:

R.I.P. 2015/4/23

[coolious4]

In response to post #24580894.

Varegi wrote:

do it make valve stop there bullshit