Valve/Bethesda announce paid modding for Skyrim, more games to follow

[donta1979]

In response to post #24578789. #24579599, #24579684, #24579689, #24579699, #24579814, #24581179, #24581389, #24581999 are all replies on the same post.

donta1979 wrote:

marthgun wrote: they should just add advertisements to the downloads of mods like youtube. some can join in others can refuse.

This costs nexus only what it would take to implement it, everyone is happy except people that don't know how adblock works.

have a clickable advert to give them more money. let them shill for shekels (the current rules still apply though, no update stuff etc)

Natterforme wrote: Im pretty sure that Valve and bethesda have signed some sort of exclusivity agreement to prevent site like the Nexus from offering a better deal.

-Natterforme

movomo wrote: Modding is in essense more of a community effort that has built on what came before them, than what some modders imagine.

Speaking of the "frankenstein" modding tools as you say, who made them? Where's their cut if the end-modder starts to charge their mod? Who educated them to mod, whose knowledge and tools enabled them to mod, where's their cut? All the mod managers, mod tools, and great many more indirectly vital tools. Who helped the bug fixing, who helped the newbies on the forum, where's their cut?

All of this was fair when all of it was free and none of them had their cut. Now it isn't. Do modders deserve money for "their" mod? Certainly, to an extent, but not entirely. Is it only a form of donation... as a whole, no modding comnunity has ever had strong objection to this donation thing for modders; that option has always been there. As long as it is not a disguised paywall (I do not necessarily mean chesko is making paywall), donation always has been accepted.

Anyways, I hope they'd not be using the student-licensed max.

Nichoice wrote: Adding advertisements similar to Youtube is actually a brilliant idea, it allows modders to have monetary gain for the work and effort for which they have put in and does not create any form of consumer vendor relationship which would otherwise impose responsibilities for the modder!

marthgun wrote: and what about the nifskope team? without them getting custom assets into the game would be almost impossible without the injector that doesn't work nearly as well. They spent countless hours slaving away for free and people can go sell their armor mods for money.

disgusting.

donta1979 wrote: You will see, studios start releasing their in house tools/exporters-importers for modders. If you have no noticed there are 3d production programs on steam now, there is a reason for this. Not just for indy studios, but also modders. Like by Frankenstein what was the last update for Max? Maya? Its been awhile am I right? Nor does it always work correctly. There will always be free mods, it will not destroy the modding community, if anything will give the modding community access to studio tools so the gaming companies can start making profits sooner than later. Many of you need to go read the authors comments on the steam page, looking at their mods they look fantastic. But they will tell you they have not even gotten a cent from donations, and 25% is better than 100% of nothing. I used to mod way back in the day of morrowind, when the first tools started to become available, been modding since, didn't release a single mod until the past 3-4 years publicly on a big site. I have the donations tab up, have a couple of nice mods, have I received a cent? Nope Even going out of my way to try and tailor for almost every request. Do I expect a donation? Nope That is why I am laughing at none modders saying donations but have not even donated a cent to modders, yet are all up in arms against those that wish to sell their art. Would I sell my mods right now? Nope, would I sell my mods if it became more profitable like I did back in the day before high speed internet? Maybe.

Like I said above modding and mods was not always free, mods used to be sold by floppy/CD/BBS and in rare rare cases a DVD. You all are directing your anger in the wrong direction dont put it on the modders that see this as a way of generating extra income, but on Valve for taking the Nintendo approach to modding with the high peace of the pie. Having youtube videos will not work so well unless your a big site like the nexus that has tons of users, or you run a youtube channel with over one million subscribers your not going to generate that much you would probably generate less than the 25% valve is handing out.

iloveyoupurples wrote: I could kiss you for this post. We'll probably both be banned for calling poor sight and eye on the Nexus, we'll go down together! <3 (I was actually against all the selling of mods until I did some google-fu.) I found out a few dudes make a metric-****ton of money off of the modders on these 3rd party websites and modders get nothing. So I kinda had to shift my weight on this one.

marthgun wrote: @ donta1979

incorrect. Anger must be directed somewhere. 25% is simply unacceptable.

waiting to get paid until 400 shekels is achieved is criminal. The copy write is a big issue.

This is not a lesser of two evils, these are two demons and they both must be put to the fire.

I'm open to a conversation about monetizing mods, but this is unacceptable. Join the rebel alliance or burn on the stake with the other witches. We will prevail.

I am not trying to go down, or shame anyone I am just pointing out I know how much sites like this make. Though google and having worked in the industry, gaming studios/publishers know trust me. What valve and bethesda is doing since EA failed at it so hard is how to do it right, turn out a profit, without major backlash, and by backlash I am talking about one to ten million pissed off consumers. If a modder wants to make money from their art I am all for it. But it all needs to be done the right way. So modders, gamers, publishers, all win and make it easier to mod for everyone. Edited April 24, 2015 by donta1979

[Lillysdad2009]

In response to post #24581579.

abelyo wrote:

That's what makes this so crazy, some of the mods here on nexus the authors would have to pay me to download. To think I would go and pay for a mod so I could basically try it out. No way not happening.

[darkslayer666]

In response to post #24581189. #24581254, #24581444, #24581514, #24581594 are all replies on the same post.

darkslayer666 wrote:

akkalat85 wrote: I'm actually almost certain this has nothing to do with Bethesda. Steam is the distributor, Bethesda just developed the game. Their stance has always been to promote free content created by users. That's why they released the CK since Morrowind for free. I could be wrong, they might have dirty hands, but I think primarily we should have our crosshairs aimed at Valve/Steam.

Of course, Bethesda's original stance on promoting free user content by giving us free tools might not hold in the future. But that's neither here nor there at this point.

Lillysdad2009 wrote: Without a doubt, we were talking about the fact that modders even if they are willing to take 25%. They really can't all of the tools, and base mods like fores and SKSE really have more claim to the mods than the authors do. I feel like maybe Bethesda is just pissed off about something. I hope they are not really dumb enough to think they are helping the modding community or even themselves with this bright idea. They are absolutely not helping the authors for sure. Kudos Slayer

Aidopunko wrote: @akkalat85 mate you are talking about the company that was selling horse armor DLC a decade ago. Both of the instances of Valve taking profit from community creations are for free to play games, whose continued development is funded by those sales. This is a single player game that will see no further development that Bethesda already charge money for.

Both companies deserve their share of criticism but I actually feel like this is something that Bethesda have wanted to do for some time. After all, Valve are taking the same cut they do for any other transaction, Bethesda are the ones deciding to keep ~45/50% of the money.

Lillysdad2009 wrote: Agreed that Steam is the most likely culprit here they have always IMO been really shady. But if that is the case I would hope Bethesda would make a stand, and say you know that's not what we're about here. But instead they seem to be going along with it for now. I really hope that Bethsoft comes to their senses here. If they made a stand here for what they have always been proud of. Which is the modding community, I think not only would they salvage their rep here. With the amount of attention this is going to get, maybe set a new tone for future games. I am sorry if these last posts make no sense I am exhausted and I don't even know if I am making coherent statements at this point. Kudos Akkalata

This idea could of never been possible without Beth's approval though.

Either that or Zenimax is involved somehow(never trust a publisher). They're the publishers of bethesda, which makes you wonder why they need steam at all?

I am no expert on Valve\steam. But they've reeked of monopolization for the longest time to me.

What business do Zenimax have with another distributor? They aren't hurting on sales that for sure. Plus mods have been generating income long past due date of their games, something steam couldn't even fathom to generate.

Personally I feel like Zenimax is angry their MMO was shut down, so let's do this crap to get their shares back.. still I'm talking out of my ass.

[mouser9169]

Haven't posted here much, and coming a bit late to this party, but here's my take:

 

This is a great time to be an indie game developer. Unreal, Crysis, Unity, RPG Maker are all easily licensed for commercial games, and there are some solid titles out there from all of them. I started work on one project, got it to a workable demo stage, and had to shelve it because I don't have the time and resources to make it a solid commercial entity, but I'm not going to put in a couple years work for no return.

 

What this does is gives an avenue for talented people who wouldn't mod before to go ahead and make some good stuff for these games (if it works for Skyrim, others will follow). Modders that have been happy to release free stuff in the past will probably continue to do so. Those with some superb mods that they poured massive amounts of time into may decide they want some return on their investment.

 

Remember: you don't have a "right" to get free mods from the community. That's the mod author's decision. It always has been, though they've been limited between release for free and not release at all (and go build on something they can monetize) in the past. I don't see free modding going away. I do see some new talent coming in, and the bar being raised on what quality mods are like. That will in turn push quality standards on the free mods as well.

 

This is a happy day for modding - in the long run, everybody wins. The community gets better mods, more variety, and the game devs get money to keep making games - with a strong incentive to make the games easily moddable (Mass Effect, I'm looking at you...)

[Aryell]

In response to post #24581619.

Tishen13 wrote:

. Edited April 24, 2015 by Aryell

[kelvinmann]

the 5 dollar horse armors are back

[yps]

In response to post #24581739. #24581889 is also a reply to the same post.

mouser9169 wrote:

knightspk2 wrote: You endorsed a few mods, I see. How about they all get removed from the Nexus and put on Workshop for $5?

better mods? why? because some modders can make some money, they suddenly become better at modding? please. Edited April 24, 2015 by yps

[Terramaris]

ESO got shutdown?

[Aryell]

In response to post #24581189. #24581254, #24581444, #24581514, #24581594, #24581669, #24582009 are all replies on the same post.

darkslayer666 wrote:

akkalat85 wrote: I'm actually almost certain this has nothing to do with Bethesda. Steam is the distributor, Bethesda just developed the game. Their stance has always been to promote free content created by users. That's why they released the CK since Morrowind for free. I could be wrong, they might have dirty hands, but I think primarily we should have our crosshairs aimed at Valve/Steam.

Of course, Bethesda's original stance on promoting free user content by giving us free tools might not hold in the future. But that's neither here nor there at this point.

Lillysdad2009 wrote: Without a doubt, we were talking about the fact that modders even if they are willing to take 25%. They really can't all of the tools, and base mods like fores and SKSE really have more claim to the mods than the authors do. I feel like maybe Bethesda is just pissed off about something. I hope they are not really dumb enough to think they are helping the modding community or even themselves with this bright idea. They are absolutely not helping the authors for sure. Kudos Slayer

Aidopunko wrote: @akkalat85 mate you are talking about the company that was selling horse armor DLC a decade ago. Both of the instances of Valve taking profit from community creations are for free to play games, whose continued development is funded by those sales. This is a single player game that will see no further development that Bethesda already charge money for.

Both companies deserve their share of criticism but I actually feel like this is something that Bethesda have wanted to do for some time. After all, Valve are taking the same cut they do for any other transaction, Bethesda are the ones deciding to keep ~45/50% of the money.

Lillysdad2009 wrote: Agreed that Steam is the most likely culprit here they have always IMO been really shady. But if that is the case I would hope Bethesda would make a stand, and say you know that's not what we're about here. But instead they seem to be going along with it for now. I really hope that Bethsoft comes to their senses here. If they made a stand here for what they have always been proud of. Which is the modding community, I think not only would they salvage their rep here. With the amount of attention this is going to get, maybe set a new tone for future games. I am sorry if these last posts make no sense I am exhausted and I don't even know if I am making coherent statements at this point. Kudos Akkalata

darkslayer666 wrote: This idea could of never been possible without Beth's approval though.

Either that or Zenimax is involved somehow(never trust a publisher). They're the publishers of bethesda, which makes you wonder why they need steam at all?

I am no expert on Valve\steam. But they've reeked of monopolization for the longest time to me.

What business do Zenimax have with another distributor? They aren't hurting on sales that for sure. Plus mods have been generating income long past due date of their games, something steam couldn't even fathom to generate.

Personally I feel like Zenimax is angry their MMO was shut down, so let's do this crap to get their shares back.. still I'm talking out of my ass.

empiric wrote: "The community should contribute for free" followed by "we're monetizing your work by sleight-of-hand X" is the business model of most of the internet now.

We already had now a huge mistake "Art of Catch" as been removed from workshop because uses FINIS , how to share the profit between all the contributers? Edited April 24, 2015 by Aryell

[empiric]

In response to post #24580299. #24580459, #24580464, #24580614, #24580869, #24581299 are all replies on the same post.

spydar59 wrote:

marthgun wrote: If a mod author chooses to do this, they are ruining their rep. They brought that upon themselves. I'm more worried about what steam / beth decide to do with those rights. What about mods that change similar things hosted on the nexus, will those mods violate their copywrite ownership?

Nexus won't be able to fight that, they'll be deleting things left and right, there will be riots.

popcorn71 wrote: Thats part of releasing a mod. You do it knowing full well that Beth can lay claim to your work but you do it anyway to make your gaming experience better.
Its something else entirely when some other modder comes along and steals your work then turns around and sells it.

Jerros wrote: I'm a mod author and I refuse to participate in this. This was not why I started modding but looks like a good time to retire from it. Sad day indeed.

marthgun wrote: @popcorn

There's a big difference though, heretofore Bethesda has had no stake in mods. They make nothing from the specifically. Now that they own a bunch of mods, will that incentive them to make absolutely sure there is no one undercutting them? will they find it economicaly viable to go after the "competition."

If this were content / quest / gameplay mods being sold, there's a tiny argument there. But this is anything goes. And as its been pointed out above, the amount of hands in the cookie jar of virutally every mod is vast. It's a slap in the face to everyone that has contributed over the years. I want to believe mod authors like Chesko were lured in unawares, maybe they thought it sounded interesting and signed up, then the ball dropped.

popcorn71 wrote: I know there is a diferance. That was entirely my point. Beth can legally already do what ever they want with your mods as they own the rights to the game. Its not what I would call ethical but whatever.

What I DO have a problem with is this crap I keep seeing about Chesko charging for a mod that has assets from FNIS without Fores permission.

I love Cheskos mods but what he did was verrrrrrrrrryyyyy uncool and I highly doubt hes the only one with payed mods that have smiler issues. The workshop already had problems with mod pirates and this will just make it that much worse.

===Edit===
I think Im misunderstanding your post...

Agreed the likelihood of unpaid '' DLC-ification" is very high. While a subset of players enjoy trying out mods with the understanding they'll have to deal with incompatibilities and load-order issues and the like, the "general gaming public" I venture doesn't have the patience for it. I think we'll see a "Top 100 Mods - selected to guarantee compatibility out of the box" DLC will happen very quickly. And with the nature of the market, what percentage of mods will be distributed in that form and who will be profiting? I think it answers itself. Edited April 24, 2015 by empiric