Valve/Bethesda announce paid modding for Skyrim, more games to follow

[goldcrumb]

But the question is... will Nexus do the same thing as Valve?

[AKcelsior]

In response to post #24581894. #24582049, #24582084, #24582119 are all replies on the same post.

NamelessTed wrote:

phantompally76 wrote: And who are you to say that if a mod author has been hyping the newest updates for their existing mods for weeks and weeks without telling their endorsers/subscribers that they must pay to download them isn't a HUGE slap in the face to said endorsers/subscribers who have been eagerly awaiting said content?

THAT is why everybody is freaking out over this.

GenBloodhorn wrote: its the reason that the large mods we love will go to the workshop and sell it instead of sharing it free with the community.

The fact that yes, there are good alternative mods, but they cant be as good as those mods. (no offense to mod authors around). and remember, the first batch of corruption included Chesko and Isoku, wonder how many more authors could get corrupted. btw, Im not really mad at Chesko as long as he makes the mods free (wont really care for early access bs).

WightMage wrote: And it wasn't just one author, either.

Valve is promoting the view that large content mods should be sold for a price. Whereas before we would release content because we loved to share, now we must decide whether to be taken advantage of, or sell. No they aren't preventing us from releasing mods for free, but they certainly are promoting the opposite idea for the express purpose of lining their own filthy pockets with 75% of your creation's return. Edited April 24, 2015 by akkalat85

[phantompally76]

In response to post #24581894. #24582039, #24582084, #24582119 are all replies on the same post.

NamelessTed wrote:

akkalat85 wrote: Valve is promoting the view that large content mods should be sold for a price. Whereas before we would release content because we loved to share, now we must decide whether to be taken advantage of, or sell. No they aren't preventing us from releasing mods for free, but they certainly are promoting the opposite idea.

GenBloodhorn wrote: its the reason that the large mods we love will go to the workshop and sell it instead of sharing it free with the community.

The fact that yes, there are good alternative mods, but they cant be as good as those mods. (no offense to mod authors around). and remember, the first batch of corruption included Chesko and Isoku, wonder how many more authors could get corrupted. btw, Im not really mad at Chesko as long as he makes the mods free (wont really care for early access bs).

WightMage wrote: And it wasn't just one author, either.

And who are you to say that if a mod author has been hyping the newest updates for their existing mods for weeks and weeks without telling their endorsers/subscribers that they must pay to download them isn't a HUGE slap in the face to said endorsers/subscribers who have been eagerly awaiting said content?

THAT is why everybody is freaking out over this. Edited April 24, 2015 by phantompally76

[WightMage]

In response to post #24581739. #24581849, #24581889, #24581959 are all replies on the same post.

mouser9169 wrote:

yps wrote: better mods? why? because some modders can make some money, they suddenly become better at modding? please.

knightspk2 wrote: You endorsed a few mods, I see. How about they all get removed from the Nexus and put on Workshop for $5?

akkalat85 wrote: That logic isn't very sound.

Huge content mods like "Wet and Cold" will be a thing of the past if this continues. Not because Isoku wants to charge, but because authors like him will have no choice but to charge. A prominent author already put a price tag on content that wasn't his to sell, so unless we want to have our content stolen by charlatans we will eventually have no other choice but to put price tags on everything.

This is a terrible day for modding. The community will not get better mods because of this... those mods would have been released for free/donation, but now we need to think about whether to release for free and risk being taken advantage of, or playing it safe and putting a price tag on it.

Why spend a ridiculous amount of time making an incredible mod and then charging a large price for it, when it is cheaper and, on the whole, more efficient to make a number of small, throw away mods and charge seemingly pennies for them?

Profit is about maximizing return for as little investment as possible. I am not convinced that the introduction of money will somehow increase the quality of mods- indeed, I think it would do just the opposite.

[phantompally76]

In response to post #24582029.

goldcrumb wrote:

There's been a post on the front page of Nexus for about 2-3 weeks that says, in a word, no.

[GenBloodhorn]

In response to post #24581894. #24582039, #24582049 are all replies on the same post.

NamelessTed wrote:

akkalat85 wrote: Valve is promoting the view that large content mods should be sold for a price. Whereas before we would release content because we loved to share, now we must decide whether to be taken advantage of, or sell. No they aren't preventing us from releasing mods for free, but they certainly are promoting the opposite idea.

phantompally76 wrote: And who are you to say that if a mod author has been hyping the newest updates for their existing mods for weeks and weeks without telling their endorsers/subscribers that they must pay to download them is perfectly acceptable and totally ethical?

THAT is why everybody is freaking out over this.

its the reason that the large mods we love will go to the workshop and sell it instead of sharing it free with the community.

The fact that yes, there are good alternative mods, but they cant be as good as those mods. (no offense to mod authors around). and remember, the first batch of corruption included Chesko and Isoku, wonder how many more authors could get corrupted. btw, Im not really mad at Chesko as long as he makes the mods free (wont really care for early access bs).

[Brumbek]

In response to post #24566989. #24567159, #24567334, #24567369, #24568009, #24568119, #24568139, #24568164, #24568744, #24568794, #24569069, #24575579 are all replies on the same post.

sojourner22 wrote:

Uranium - 235 wrote: Unfortunately people - even modders - are greedy and dumb. See also Wet and Cold being sold for FIVE FREAKING DOLLARS.

Hoping it will all work itself out with altruism isn't going to cut it. Furthermore, we're only talking about the current generation of modders. There are almost no people who were modding games for Morrowind who are still modding Skyrim. The torch gets passed and new modders take it up. Yeah, we might have some modders who believe in the old ways and will offer it for free, but with time, they will move on with their lives, and a new generation will take over, a generation that's been raised on microtransactions, DLC, greed, and selfishness.

And that's the end of free modding forever.

sojourner22 wrote: Wet and Cold is set default at $5, but if you select the drop down arrow it allows you to pay as little as $1 for it.... a lot of these mods are listed as pay what you want. It just requires a little bit of extra searching.

That said, the Midas Magic gold minimum price is $3 for like... 10 extra spells. No.

AmeerMahmood wrote: Very pessimistic outlook but a possibility.

Dark0ne wrote: The horrible thing about doing that is that 75% of that donation goes to Valve and Bethesda. Butter my arse, that's crazy. We'll be working to make donations more prominent here without trying to make it too in your face annoying for users still. That way, 100% of the donations will go to the user.

Reaper0021 wrote: Dark I hope you do something ASAP. If ever there was a time we needed your experience it's now. Do something to save this situation. OR make it better.

Thaiauxn wrote: This is why I love Dark0ne. Wading into the trenches of a hot topic, replying to users, taking time away from life, implementing smart solutions.

*wipes away tear* Makes me so proud...

Brumbek wrote: @Dark0ne: thanks again for being awesome and making this site. I don't thank you enough. My current internal debate is...SMIM will always be free on Skyrim Nexus. But if Steam lets me charge a small fee, should I not let Steam users pay me? Steam users seem to love giving money for cosmetics...and SMIM is like the best cosmetic upgrade to Skyrim IMO, hehehe...anyway, I will never, EVER remove my mods from your site. Ever.

Dark0ne wrote: I've had lots of mod authors contact me on Skype about it, they seem to feel like they need to apologise to me or that they owe me an explanation. You don't! The modding industry (excluding the aforementioned F2P Steam games, where it's already happened) is about to go from a $0 a year industry to a multi-million dollar industry in the space of a year. Obviously it makes sense that the mod authors are compensated for their work accordingly, if they so wish.

The only thing that annoys me in all this is that there's no way for a competitor to come in and undercut that batcrap crazy 25/75 revenue share. And that's not me lamenting the fact that I can't do it, oh god no, that's far too much drama and stress for me to bother with, but the fact no one else can come along and do better due to Valve's lock-down, that's the thing that really annoys me in all of this. Used to be that people used the best platform for the job. And if you wanted to be that platform you had to analyse all the other platforms and try and come up with something better, something people really wanted to use. That's out the window, now.

25/75...my god.

mcguffin wrote: 75% cut is really high.
I understand if Bethesda want a share, because, you know, most mods are using their assets in first place, but Valve... this feel wrong.
Even Apple doesnt take that much in Itunes.

SvarogNL wrote: Its the 75% that smells, Brum.

I have no doubt people want to pay for SMIM, just not thru Steam Workshop because of the 75%.

belenbelen wrote: Dark0ne, please make the Donate button bigger and more easier to see. most of folk here dont even kbow such an option exist

@Dark0ne: great point about the anti-competitive nature of SW. You are so right that we are forced into an unfortunate system.

@SvarogNL: hmm, I wasn't sure if 25/75 was absolute fact or still being adjusted. You are right that my plan to charge a SMALL fee for SMIM is kind of ruined by me only getting 1/4 of it. It does feel like they are making money off my effort! Well, that is exactly what is happening...

[WightMage]

In response to post #24581894. #24582039, #24582049, #24582084 are all replies on the same post.

NamelessTed wrote:

akkalat85 wrote: Valve is promoting the view that large content mods should be sold for a price. Whereas before we would release content because we loved to share, now we must decide whether to be taken advantage of, or sell. No they aren't preventing us from releasing mods for free, but they certainly are promoting the opposite idea.

phantompally76 wrote: And who are you to say that if a mod author has been hyping the newest updates for their existing mods for weeks and weeks without telling their endorsers/subscribers that they must pay to download them is perfectly acceptable and totally ethical?

THAT is why everybody is freaking out over this.

GenBloodhorn wrote: its the reason that the large mods we love will go to the workshop and sell it instead of sharing it free with the community.

The fact that yes, there are good alternative mods, but they cant be as good as those mods. (no offense to mod authors around). and remember, the first batch of corruption included Chesko and Isoku, wonder how many more authors could get corrupted. btw, Im not really mad at Chesko as long as he makes the mods free (wont really care for early access bs).

And it wasn't just one author, either.

[Marthenil]

In response to post #24581739. #24581849, #24581889, #24581959, #24582054 are all replies on the same post.

mouser9169 wrote:

yps wrote: better mods? why? because some modders can make some money, they suddenly become better at modding? please.

knightspk2 wrote: You endorsed a few mods, I see. How about they all get removed from the Nexus and put on Workshop for $5?

akkalat85 wrote: That logic isn't very sound.

Huge content mods like "Wet and Cold" will be a thing of the past if this continues. Not because Isoku wants to charge, but because authors like him will have no choice but to charge. A prominent author already put a price tag on content that wasn't his to sell, so unless we want to have our content stolen by charlatans we will eventually have no other choice but to put price tags on everything.

This is a terrible day for modding. The community will not get better mods because of this... those mods would have been released for free/donation, but now we need to think about whether to release for free and risk being taken advantage of, or playing it safe and putting a price tag on it.

WightMage wrote: Why spend a ridiculous amount of time making an incredible mod and then charging a large price for it, when it is cheaper and, on the whole, more efficient to make a number of small, throw away mods and charge seemingly pennies for them?

Profit is about maximizing return for as little investment as possible. I am not convinced that the introduction of money will somehow increase the quality of mods- indeed, I think it would do just the opposite.

People that think financial reward is a way to motivate anyone need to take a look at this:

Edited April 24, 2015 by Elegost75

[donta1979]

In response to post #24578789. #24579599, #24579684, #24579689, #24579699, #24579814, #24581179, #24581389, #24581644, #24581999 are all replies on the same post.

donta1979 wrote:

marthgun wrote: they should just add advertisements to the downloads of mods like youtube. some can join in others can refuse.

This costs nexus only what it would take to implement it, everyone is happy except people that don't know how adblock works.

have a clickable advert to give them more money. let them shill for shekels (the current rules still apply though, no update stuff etc)

Natterforme wrote: Im pretty sure that Valve and bethesda have signed some sort of exclusivity agreement to prevent site like the Nexus from offering a better deal.

-Natterforme

movomo wrote: Modding is in essense more of a community effort that has built on what came before them, than what some modders imagine.

Speaking of the "frankenstein" modding tools as you say, who made them? Where's their cut if the end-modder starts to charge their mod? Who educated them to mod, whose knowledge and tools enabled them to mod, where's their cut? All the mod managers, mod tools, and great many more indirectly vital tools. Who helped the bug fixing, who helped the newbies on the forum, where's their cut?

All of this was fair when all of it was free and none of them had their cut. Now it isn't. Do modders deserve money for "their" mod? Certainly, to an extent, but not entirely. Is it only a form of donation... as a whole, no modding comnunity has ever had strong objection to this donation thing for modders; that option has always been there. As long as it is not a disguised paywall (I do not necessarily mean chesko is making paywall), donation always has been accepted.

Anyways, I hope they'd not be using the student-licensed max.

Nichoice wrote: Adding advertisements similar to Youtube is actually a brilliant idea, it allows modders to have monetary gain for the work and effort for which they have put in and does not create any form of consumer vendor relationship which would otherwise impose responsibilities for the modder!

marthgun wrote: and what about the nifskope team? without them getting custom assets into the game would be almost impossible without the injector that doesn't work nearly as well. They spent countless hours slaving away for free and people can go sell their armor mods for money.

disgusting.

donta1979 wrote: You will see, studios start releasing their in house tools/exporters-importers for modders. If you have no noticed there are 3d production programs on steam now, there is a reason for this. Not just for indy studios, but also modders. Like by Frankenstein what was the last update for Max? Maya? Its been awhile am I right? Nor does it always work correctly. There will always be free mods, it will not destroy the modding community, if anything will give the modding community access to studio tools so the gaming companies can start making profits sooner than later. Many of you need to go read the authors comments on the steam page, looking at their mods they look fantastic. But they will tell you they have not even gotten a cent from donations, and 25% is better than 100% of nothing. I used to mod way back in the day of morrowind, when the first tools started to become available, been modding since, didn't release a single mod until the past 3-4 years publicly on a big site. I have the donations tab up, have a couple of nice mods, have I received a cent? Nope Even going out of my way to try and tailor for almost every request. Do I expect a donation? Nope That is why I am laughing at none modders saying donations but have not even donated a cent to modders, yet are all up in arms against those that wish to sell their art. Would I sell my mods right now? Nope, would I sell my mods if it became more profitable like I did back in the day before high speed internet? Maybe.

Like I said above modding and mods was not always free, mods used to be sold by floppy/CD/BBS and in rare rare cases a DVD. You all are directing your anger in the wrong direction dont put it on the modders that see this as a way of generating extra income, but on Valve for taking the Nintendo approach to modding with the high peace of the pie. Having youtube videos will not work so well unless your a big site like the nexus that has tons of users, or you run a youtube channel with over one million subscribers your not going to generate that much you would probably generate less than the 25% valve is handing out.

iloveyoupurples wrote: I could kiss you for this post. We'll probably both be banned for calling poor sight and eye on the Nexus, we'll go down together! <3 (I was actually against all the selling of mods until I did some google-fu.) I found out a few dudes make a metric-****ton of money off of the modders on these 3rd party websites and modders get nothing. So I kinda had to shift my weight on this one.

donta1979 wrote: I am not trying to go down, or shame anyone I am just pointing out I know how much sites like this make. Though google and having worked in the industry, gaming studios/publishers know trust me. What valve and bethesda is doing since EA failed at it so hard is how to do it right, turn out a profit, without major backlash, and by backlash I am talking about one to ten million pissed off consumers. If a modder wants to make money from their art I am all for it. But it all needs to be done the right way. So modders, gamers, publishers, all win and make it easier to mod for everyone.

marthgun wrote: @ donta1979

incorrect. Anger must be directed somewhere. 25% is simply unacceptable.

waiting to get paid until 400 shekels is achieved is criminal. The copy write is a big issue.

This is not a lesser of two evils, these are two demons and they both must be put to the fire.

I'm open to a conversation about monetizing mods, but this is unacceptable. Join the rebel alliance or burn on the stake with the other witches. We will prevail.

hehe I have said the 25% is not right, and the valve 75% is wrong. That is what people need to get angry about. Yes the 400 is also criminal it lets valve make money off of interest... But look at the modders who put their work up, they said 25% is better than 100% of nothing. They are also great modders and have not received a single donation ever. So everyone here has to see their stand on it where they are coming from. Edited April 24, 2015 by donta1979