Valve/Bethesda announce paid modding for Skyrim, more games to follow

[ytene]

In response to post #24669294.

SMB92 wrote:

I can echo your sentiment, but can we lay this at Bethesda's door? Isn't it Steam/Valve who are creating the pay-wall? Do Bethesda get a cut of the money charged for a mod for one of their games? [ I don't know the answers]... Let's reserve judgement until we see what they do with Skyrim's replacement, eh?

[1SHOT2KILL]

In response to post #24669294. #24673369 is also a reply to the same post.

SMB92 wrote:

ytene wrote: I can echo your sentiment, but can we lay this at Bethesda's door? Isn't it Steam/Valve who are creating the pay-wall? Do Bethesda get a cut of the money charged for a mod for one of their games? [ I don't know the answers]... Let's reserve judgement until we see what they do with Skyrim's replacement, eh?

If I remember correctly, Valve is getting 45% while Bethesda is getting 30%.

[PrometheusTS]

In response to post #24669294. #24673369 is also a reply to the same post.

 

 

 

SMB92 wrote:

ytene wrote: I can echo your sentiment, but can we lay this at Bethesda's door? Isn't it Steam/Valve who are creating the pay-wall? Do Bethesda get a cut of the money charged for a mod for one of their games? [ I don't know the answers]... Let's reserve judgement until we see what they do with Skyrim's replacement, eh?

If I remember correctly, Valve is getting 45% while Bethesda is getting 30%.

its the reverse way , its also worth mentioning that part of that 30% by valve is devoted to other communities and tool creators that helped in the "making of " the supposed paid mod , nexus is included in the list of who gets the % from Valve count. Edited April 26, 2015 by PROMETHEUS_ts

[1SHOT2KILL]

In response to post #24673974.

PROMETHEUS_ts wrote:

Isn't giving a part of Valve's profit to other sites optional?

[PrometheusTS]

In response to post #24673974.

 

 

 

PROMETHEUS_ts wrote:

Isn't giving a part of Valve's profit to other sites optional?

Dunno , but since its from Valve 's share whats the point in non adding it?

[Warrior84]

In response to post #24615234. #24615334, #24618949, #24619709, #24621479, #24621814, #24621984, #24665704, #24669039, #24670104 are all replies on the same post.

phantompally76 wrote:

freedom613 wrote: Kudos for ya! (You didn't upset me by the way...)

phantompally76 wrote: Sigh.

No sooner had I logged out that I got half a dozen text messages letting me know "SKYUI IS GOING PAYWALL ERMAGERD!!!!" effectively forcing every single one of us to buy into this horsecrap moving forward.

Unbelievable. Absolutely unbelievable.

Arendella wrote: Excuse me as I vomit GG SkyUI GG

Pops53 wrote: I won't be moving forward and buying ANYTHING. I'll put Skyrim down for the long cold sleep before I do it. Millions for defense, not ONE penny for tribute!

Pops

evildeadhead wrote: We still got Fallout woohoo. So this is what Bethesda has to look forward to in it's first E3 this is gonna be interesting from here on out.

phantompally76 wrote: Moving forward, I won't be purchasing any more Bethesda products. Not even ESVI.

A line has to be drawn.


____________________________


And there it is.

mercurydustin wrote: i been part of modding for a heck of a long time baulders gate was the first game I ever modded I helped playtest an unofficial expansion, I have always loved the hard work and effort that many have put into the modding community this whole thing has me upset there hasn't been a game released since the end of the 90s that dosent need mods I have been really disappointed with 99.9% of games most are unfunctional or complete waste of money without mods I consoled myself when buying incomplete games that at lest the modders will make this playable, but really that shouldn't have been the awnser we are all to blame for buying games from devolper and publishers that honestly don't give a rats behind if they make something functional or enjoyable, I remember buying games as a kid and them being useable out of he box over 100s of hours long, mods would add to replay not be nessary to function. I agree I think its time to dust of my old gamecube see if the nes is functioning and go back to classics there is plenty of old games I never finished back when making a story and an enjoyable experience was the goal of game makers this everything for profit and no real effort towards art and customer satisfaction is got me pretty upset

Ianc1 wrote: Skyui is the same as 4.1 here on the nexus, only the crafting menu has been changed. no other changes to the mcm menu have been made. got this info from the mod maker on reddit.

phantompally76 wrote: At some point (probably sooner rather than later), mod users will have to pay for the Steam version of SKYUI (remember, the version on nexus is never going to be updated again, and is effectively abandonware) in order to play any new mods created that are dependent upon the LATEST version of SKYUI.

Am I getting through to you at all? Unless mod authors make a conscientious decision to base their mods' compatibility on the current, now-unsupported version of SKYUI on the nexus instead of the maintained and supported version on Steam (which I can almost certainly guarantee they won't make that decision), then every single one of us is going to HAVE to purchase SKYUI on Steam, no matter how we feel about the entire scam. Our freedom of choice in the matter is being taken away from us (aside from piracy, which I don't condone, or abandoning modding altogether), and so many of you are too stubborn to lift your head out of the sand for 10 seconds and open your damned eyes to see it.

This is one of the best posts I have read concerning this matter, well done. Now looking back it his "prediction" post just one month before all this, it does makes you wonder.

It is a good idea to take a break from all of this, take care.

[lioncoke]

In response to post #24565684. #24565749, #24565819, #24565874, #24565944, #24566139, #24566154, #24566189, #24566214, #24566264, #24566339, #24566349, #24566439, #24566459, #24566504, #24566524, #24566569, #24566579, #24566644, #24566769, #24566779, #24566819, #24566909, #24566934, #24567024, #24567079, #24567154, #24567239, #24567264, #24567269, #24567344, #24567354, #24567469, #24567539, #24567564, #24567664, #24568174, #24568504, #24568524, #24569644, #24570059, #24570684, #24570944, #24571509, #24571604, #24572384, #24582389, #24582414, #24582584, #24582599, #24582694, #24582734, #24582839, #24582924, #24582949, #24583354, #24583399, #24583779, #24583954, #24616474, #24616934, #24617369, #24617549, #24618529, #24619024, #24619344, #24623484, #24626434, #24627004, #24647269, #24647629, #24659204, #24659384, #24659919, #24661289, #24661499, #24661629, #24663064, #24663634, #24669304 are all replies on the same post.

Brumbek wrote:

Zaldiir wrote: Wait a little bit. See if the updated donation system here on NexusMods will make more people donate. :thumbsup:

If it doesn't increase the amount of donations, then I don't blame you for wanting just a little bit of compensation for your hours of work. $1 or $2 is definitely not greedy - just a shock for a lot of people.

athiust wrote: Your awesome you have caused alot of joy in alot of people and have created satisfaction and an echo within the community

RJ the Shadow wrote: What I think is an option, and an error on Valve's part for not thinking of/considering this, is to make payment optional.

Was there not a thing in the music market (with CD sales only suffering more as years go by) where some artists put up a "pay what you want, or nothing at all" for the mp3's and the sales made for them reached above what they had earned on previous works?

A non-negotiable option should have been to have the mod for free, with payment a convenient option (ideal with Steam have it's Wallet).

There ARE people out there who want to vote with their wallet. But they're not given the option. Instead, they are forced to offer their wallet or are refused the content. And as made obvious, Valve will paywall anything, not even trusting us to use our money to show thanks.

It differs from Paypal Donations because the question is directly forced upon the user. Whereas a Donation button can be skipped or ignored.
Being asked on the spot if you actually want to pay nothing for the content you're about to receive, plays on our sense of morality.

Velgath wrote: My biggest problem with the new system as-is is it kind of screws with people using alternative modding tools like Mod Organizer. Your mod is very worth a fee, but I still wouldn't buy it if it were on Workshop... that said, I may have just clicked a button on your profile page.

Brumbek wrote: Thank you for the comments. Again, I'm so torn. I view myself as an average person. I don't want to be greedy or unfair. Sadly, this new system will bring out the greed in many. Valve, itself, is already pushing $1-3 weapons/armor. Then there's my mod and others like it...so much effort and passion into it. I hate to say human nature is the real issue here...

SMIM does accept donations on Nexus of course (much thanks to you and others who have donated), but in truth my total donations has been very, very low. So for Steam, I see why they want to force a price...people just won't pay if they don't have to, even if they adore a mod and wouldn't play without it. I'm not judging. I will continue to develop my thoughts. Thanks again to everyone who makes this a great community.

heero328 wrote: Do what you have to do. I don't believe anybody would blame you for charging around $2 for SMIM. For what the mod does, that's incredibly generous on your part. I think many are more concerned with the long term implications this could have on modding and the adverse effects of it. It's not necessarily the issue of mod authors receiving money, but the fact publishers and developers are now trying to get a piece of the pie as well.

1erCru wrote: Torn? Um, you have 2.3 million unique downloads. If you charge $2 bucks for the SMIM and take 25% of the cut thats over a million bucks bro.

This is a game changer.

A1Shareef wrote: Its not greedy but think about the modding community as a howl, i bet if you write this in the description of your mod people would be happy to donate you anyway. Its not worth for 25% killing this Community and putting Gamers out there into Electronic Slavery. Plz think about it.

boulegue wrote: to be honest before the paid service for the steam workshop came out i have never even seen the donation button (im not using SMIM since i play on a potato) but you sir defnetly deserve donations or payment period.
you can also set up your mod on both the steam workshop and the nexus and just see what happens

ambria wrote: @ 1erCru
That's presuming everyone who'd downloaded would pay though.
As someone who's made music and put it on bandcamp I can tell you the drop off between downloading for free and paying is huge, even with a tiny paywall like $0.50
I'll have 100 download for free, but only 5-10 with that paywall there

Blademaster1215 wrote: All I'm going to say, while I very much love SMIM, and I appreciate the work you do. I would uninstall SMIM right now if you started paygating. I'd more than happily donate to you -- In fact I'll drop you 10 buck through the Nexus donation system if you don't do paygating.

Psijonica wrote: what is the difference if I pay or donate? If people think that they will get donations then they might as well sell them.

I will never donate or pay. I will sooner stop playing these games altogether just like I don't buy music any more... There will always be a way to get these mods for free...

This is a sad sad day indeed... sadder still is that the Nexus sees it's future in begging people top donate money for their modders... this place lacks vision and the Nexus will fall apart if they don't change they way they conduct business.

SirTopas wrote: Brumbek, I understand your position. You've put in a ton of work on SMIM and you certainly have kept it supported and working. You certainly deserve compensation for your work, but does Steam/BethSoft deserve 75% of the proceeds?

RJ the Shadow wrote: Torn or not, if you join in the paywall game, the rules will change. Nothing guarantees you'll get a lion's share of those 2.3 million unique downloads to be turned into people paying.
And you'll still be paying a huge part of the result to Valve and Bethesda.

If this proves a successful venture (for Valve) in the end, there is very little stopping these companies from looking for ways to counter websites like the Nexus. Valve has proven well enough to happily chase after any angles that make money, consequences be damned.

I know, I know. It's real easy for me to talk like this and not be in your position. It's very easy for me to say that taking part could set a worse precedent for the future. And I am, deeply, sorry that you are forced to find yourself in this position.
But it doesn't make it any less true.

EvilDeadAsh34 wrote: @1erCru

You think that many people would download it if he charged? Think again.

Don't get me wrong. I love what he did and i have made compatibility patches for one of my mods to work with his, but if he charged i wouldn't use it. That goes for any mod.

1erCru wrote: that wasnt my point. My point was simply that a mod like SMIM could generate enough money to make millions of dollars assuming that eventually all mods will be pay to play ( I'd bet on this being true after 5-7 years, its what happens when you monetize just about anything )

Even a fraction of those numbers is hundreds of thousands of dollars. I was clarifying that this isnt about making some " extra coin ". Top modders will get rich off this.

Free modding is dead.

IgnacyOrder wrote: Im for rewarding a modder who did spend a lot of time on his work. Im not a fan of iddea that all mods will be charged. Especially before testing them out. I mean I saw a crowbar for 1$...

I hope donations will work better. Especially since modder will get 100% for his work than 25% only

Uranium - 235 wrote: I think in part the reason donations are low is because Nexus has no unified, easy way to do it. Logging into a paypal and s#*! is just way too much work, not to mention Paypal is garbage in its own right.

If I had a 'Nexus Wallet' or something where you could easily chip $0.50 or $1 in the direction of a mod with a single click of a button, that'd be one thing, but the other problem is you have to get people to fill their wallet.

RiffyDivine wrote: Don't make me pay steam and I'll give you two dollars but since I paid for it I will expect support and updates since I now bought something. This adds expectations on you since you are selling a product now.

Brumbek wrote: Thanks for the continued input. To be clear, SMIM will NEVER, EVER be removed from Skyrim Nexus. It will always be free here, ALWAYS. I've never enjoyed sharing donation info because it makes me seem like I'm pressuring people. But changes to Nexus to improve the visibility of donations would be fine of course.

As for Steam, I understand people not wanting modding to die or something, but honestly I doubt that would happen. The type of people who overcharge or force people to pay are generally not the people we want in our community anyway. Also, there's no denying thousands of people on Steam way overspend on nonsense stuff. Just look at DOTA2 and CS:GO. Artists put out a simple skin and make lots of money. It pains me that people pay so much for so little...plus it tends to drown out the truly worthy content...and in my mind SMIM is worth $2 for the convenience of using Steam Workshop for casual users.

For clarity, SW currently doesn't allow us to truly limit prices. We pick a default price and then the range of $0.25 to $99 always shows in the list. You can force a minimum but not maximum! I do not want to let users pay over $2 because I don't want to engage in extortion! But currently I can't limit it...hence why I'm undecided.

Rigmor wrote: You will eventually isolate yourself, maybe not you IF all your work is your own. But take my mod, employs a team of over 12 voice actors, who pays them? never mind about the other mod authors works included, with their kind permissions, and I worked over 1300 hours in the CK, but I cannot (wont) charge a fee. It's untenable. So why should YOU make money, but not ME? Already the split is showing.

It will eventually be greed wins the day, modders will change the way they do things cynically based of making money. The users, should speak with their wallets, and NEVER entertain this disgusting act Valve and Bethesda (shame on them) have unleashed, a pandoras box, endorse and donate yes. Pay to play NO!

RJ the Shadow wrote: More like pay for the luxury of having it modded...
sigh

1erCru wrote: Rigmor you nailed it. This is real bad stuff. The money involved is just way too much.

Greed never loses

icecreamassassin wrote: @Brumbek

I too am very torn for sure. I've spent well over 5000 hours on my mod in the 1+ year it's been in development, have a half million views, 100K downloads, 2000 endorsements and maybe $120 in total donations? if I were working at McDonalds during that entire time instead of modding I could have made over $20,000. Yes I do mod because I enjoy it, but I think the VAST majority of users takes us for granted under the pretense of it being a community aimed effort, which I am very big on, but the fact of the matter is that most people won't pay for anything they can get for free if given the choice, sad fact of the matter. I do think though that the lack of exposure of the donation option is at least a little to blame. Half of folks who would donate don't even notice it and I know that if it popped up a little more often like on the download sever like the endorsement reminder does, more folks might give a few dollars. I know I certainly didn't notice the button until a user asked if I accepted them and then I looked into it and realized I could set the button up.

It's a hard thing because there are so many legal and ethical ramifications to consider

HeloMAN wrote: +1 To Rigmor.

How many mods use SKSE or other assets that aren't theirs? It's unfair to take payment for something you may have spent alot of time on...but isn't all yours. Rigmor you earn mine and many other's respect.

While I currenlt don't use your mod (and never have), I may in the future, and when I do I will surely hand a few dollars over as thanks for your work if you accept donations. Don't cave in like these greedy traitors.

While I can understand some people's "need" to make some money off their work, theres just too many things wrong with it. Plus, if they really can't work on their mods because of limitations, then stop. Modding is about the enjoyment, not about money, and if you cease to enjoy it or simply cannot do it, then stop.

EDIT: LOL one of my posts was deleted, nice censorship nexus mods! Can't believe they are supporting steam's workshop BS.

ambria wrote: I'm very skeptical that even the biggest of the big modders could "get rich" from this.
Because of the aforementioned drop off from free to pay wall, plus the 75% cut taken.
It would have to be a very big and popular mod, and those normally include a lot of mod resources, voice actors, quality insurance testers, you name it, and the mod author would have to be giving all those a cut??

I think the best a mod author could hope to make out of this would equate to minimum wage when compared to the hours they put in.

But I could be wrong, I guess we'll see

ramccoid wrote: We are here to play a game, it's a game not life. We mod to make the game more enjoyable and we share that experience, so others can enjoy the difference we have made. Where does money come in to it.

antipax wrote: 1erCru: 2 million downloads over a few years, and unless he removed SMIM from the Nexus, people will still download the free, old version from here, not to mention who already downloaded it won't have to download it again, especially just for an update as it works pretty well.

RiffyDivine wrote: You've got to remember that if a high price is set for a type of mod, let's say armor mods. If I charge 25 USD for it then the next guy to upload one will go s#*! I like 25 USD also then you set a standard of high prices and people will pay it making it a standard. I'd sooner pay you to not be on steam.

iceburg wrote: You're mod is a delight and a necessity.

It scares me that someone may realize the profit in stealing other peoples mods and placing them up for sale on steam. Now we mod authors need to monitor our mods on the nexus, and on steam, or someone could profit from our work!

Seems like a nightmare situation to me.

jediakyrol wrote: holy crap, man...don't know how I've passed over your mod before...I am downloading, endorsing, and sending you a fiver right now!

mcguffin wrote: Just a thought:
Endorsements show the number of people who actually care enough to just click something to say thank you, so people who will give money will be far lower, imho

Brumbek wrote: @Rigmor: great points. Charging for mods does suddenly make us competitors. I obviously can't say your whole group deserves less than my mod. I would never want to imply my mod deserves anything. But this is the nature of the free market I suppose. People will pay for one thing over another. And often what people pay for is less deserving than something else. Valve are masters of getting people to pay for dumb stuff. CS:GO knives prove the insanity of the human mind.

@icecreamassassin: point taken.

Now I'm even more torn than ever! Thanks guys!! ;) At the end of the day though, the honest truth is I've come back to modding today because of this announcement...I'd like to think not out of greed but just...practicality?

mkess wrote: Maybe the donation button should be a button direct behind the download button, with "If you like this mod, donate" Or something like that, with direct use of paypal. As a matter of fact, paypal was fdeveloped exactly for that reason.

The button to be able to pay someone for his time and efforts should be more in palin side, and it should be worked into the mod-manager, too.

Directly beside the endorse function. Because if you think about endorsing something, you are only one step away from spending a little money on it.

And make it very easy to spend money. No registration. Only ONE click. I sometimes do not give any money at all, if I have to register with at least 10 data fields. Holy crap, are the insane? It should be as easy as taking a coin out of my purse, and gve it to someone.

That's my oppinion.

Teria23 wrote: I think you may get more people to donate if you simply state that you won't move SMIM over to the Dark Side, no matter how many cookies they offer...

NoDebate wrote: Brumbek, I love SMIM. It's on my list with SkyUI and SKSE as mods I install regardless. All three are quintessential to improving the overall Skyrim experience. They're absolutely necessary. SMIM is high quality, unobtrusive, and fixes a great many things noticed (and appreciated) by those of us with an eye for detail. That said, charging two bucks for SMIM is not greedy. I find it to be reasonable for the work you've put into the project.

However, as the current Steam Workshop model stands, a two dollar price tag turns into some fifty cents for you, given your work manages to sell so many copies. What has been offered up by Steam in exchange for taking the other 1.50? A little bit of advertising? A self regulated market? What has been offered by Bethesda for failing to provide appropriate meshes in the first place? Are they providing staff to assist you in creating, maintaining, or troubleshooting SMIM? I'm having a hard time now justifying the two bucks, knowing that 1.50 is going to plop on top of the eighty-some (for the game + DLC) I've given to some combination of Valve and Bethesda.

I sympathize with your current position. You see an opportunity for some compensation and want that. I get it. What human being doesn't want to be formally recognized and compensated for their artistic work? Popular artistic work. Why do YouTubers doing mod spotlights make a bit of cash and you don't? Fifty cents is better than zero cents, right? Perhaps. However (and now I will fear-monger a bit), what does that 1.50 communicate in the long run? That a team of professionals can skip by on low-poly meshes and let ole' Brumbek fix up their Nuka-Cola machines in Fallout 4 with his FMIM? Take a 75% cut of his pricetag to boot? Smells like fishsticks to me.

All this comes with a million and one questions regarding a "self-regulated market." To name a few... What determines the pricetag on a mod? As you've said and as I've seen, we already have minor cosmetics for a couple bucks as the recommended price tag. Chesko's Art of the Catch is essentially Skyrim Mod Early Access. Is there any accountability there? What determines a completed mod? Stable mod? Compatible mod? Can we trade mods on the Steam Market? Am I refunded if a mod no longer satisfies certain requirements? Am I refunded if a mod is no longer maintained? You get my point. I don't have any strong feelings regarding what you should do. I appreciate you communicating your concerns to the 'general public' and would welcome the opportunity to continue the discussion.

In closing, I'll offer you a bit of background on myself. I have been playing Bethesda games since the release of Daggerfall. I will be coming up on twenty years here real quick. I'm in the middle of (yet another) Morrowind playthrough. Loaded to the gills with mods. I have mods saved on my portable drive from the PlanetElderScrolls days. We're talking at least ten years (go check out the Morrowind Mod History site). Everything from Morrowind Rebirth to the House of Armors. Modding is the life's blood of any Bethesda game, it's the only thing that allows me to play Morrowind here in 2015. I understand that no one works for free, I understand the thousands of hours people pour into intricate creations that rival (and often far out-do) the work of professionals but, the expectation is that this work has been done out of the passion of the series, Elder Scrolls or Fallout. That's what makes mods superior to any DLC Bethesda decides to vomit our way. Establishing a monetized modding scene goes a long way towards soaking up that passion. It also has me very concerned for the pending release of Fallout 4.

Brumbek wrote: @NoDebate: great points, NoDebate (ah, the irony). You do have a good point about what it communicates if I let Valve/Bethesda take the large portion of my efforts. But my efforts would be impossible without their efforts. Ultimately, they take the majority of the money because *they can*. Those with the power, dictate the rules.

The question I still wonder: will charging on Steam Workshop truly worsen modding? Again, it will be the charlatans and the greedy who overrun Steam Workshop, ultimately ruining it for everyone. So yes, should someone like me, a self-proclaimed nice guy who just loves modding, join the ugly fray? I don't know...I have these delusions that maybe the masses will recognize quality. Maybe I'm too optimistic. Thanks again, keep the discussion going.

Monkeynutz76 wrote: as a part time modder myself I'm having the same delema many have donated there hard earned funds in thanks to my various mods on mount and blade FONV and skyrim but i find Very few donate .. even when they post how wonderful the mod is and heap praise upon my many hours .. sometimes months or in one case years of work ... while it is true i do it out of some sort of twisted love and desire to produce excellence in each of my mods ... yes im being cagey about which ones as many have an X disclaimer here .....the thought of being paid each download is appealing i wont deny. however i still believe that you should not be forced to pay for something you may not enjoy .... perhaps a trial period for each mod could offset the instant pain for each mod as well as a maximum fee cap so some of the greedy types can be controlled
im not an advocate for the PAY TO PLAY system we are being forced to swallow like a load of ....
that being said instant gratification is rather nice

icecreamassassin wrote: On the note about competition there is literally nothing stopping modders from imitating one another's work and then basically undercutting them. Another thing to think about.

SpyderArachnid wrote: While some people don't see it as being so bad to charge 1-2 dollars for their mod, they forget that you only get 25% of that. And ONLY if you make 100 dollars or more on your mod. So if you don't even make 100 dollars every month, you get nothing.

And to top that off, the one thing they don't consider, your reputation. Communities have a deep hatred for people who put their mods behind a pay wall. So not only will you only be getting a few cents here and there, your reputation will be tarnished badly.

Look at people like Isoku who did Wet and Cold. Their comments have been pruned and locked for all the stuff people have said once they found out the new updated was behind a pay wall. They are being harassed and have become the poster boy/example for paid mods on many other forums right now. A modder that people respected, their reputation is ruined now because of this.

So while I get that you would like to make a buck here and there for your hard work, think about not only the money but what is going to happen to your rep if you do.

FishBiter wrote: It amazes me that the focus here is on how greedy the modders are... rather than how modders are being tricked into letting themselves and their work be exploited for someone else's gain.

NoDebate wrote: Okay, my Chrome crashed and I lost some of my DOOM WALL OF TEXT but, I am typing feverishly (no I'm not actually sweating, that'd be grody) as we speak. DOOM WALL OF TEXT IS COMING.

Solongchu wrote: I agree with FishBiter if the modders were getting the 75% and not Steam I would consider paying for mods like SMIM.The way they have it set up the modders dont really get anything for their hard work and like others have said alot of these mods depend on resources that are not theirs and wont work without them.
I really wonder what the skse team think about this.

Aerial_ace wrote: For a mod like yours i would have no issue with paying some money, its just when some one go $2 for some crappy sword or armor, no

NoDebate wrote: Brumbek, without going into great detail, though I presume one could find volumes on the subject, the Elder Scrolls used to exist as something of a 'niche' RPG. Overtime, as all good things do, the Elder Scrolls series continued to gather popularity and support, booming with Oblivion. Skyrim launched the Elder Scrolls somewhere into the stratosphere, where everyone and their grandmamas (that's grandmothers) were playing, talking about, or otherwise experiencing Skyrim. Now, regarding those volumes, we of the longtime veterans have noticed a trend (and yelled at each other about it in great excess) in the Elder Scrolls series. A move from buggy cRPG to buggy AAA title. Skyrim, now the gold-standard for open-world 'RPGs' (I would argue that one cannot have an RPG without classes or stats - a debate for another time) is once again trying to push the market in a particular direction, to redefine what it means to be a modder.

Now, this is where you stop me. Hey! Debate! What about CS:GO? Dota 2? TF 2!? Those are the real innovators, they started hat market choo-choo train, that's really what got this rolling, right? In part, yes. I suspect Valve was motivated by the rampant success of user generated content within their own sphere of games. Heck, I've easily spent 300 bucks on Dota 2 cosmetics. The model works. Why? It's quick, easy, simple. Cosmetics have no game impact, can be mass produced, and be shown off. They're symbols of status, antiques, and currency. Points worth making so long as we are here. Genuine Timebreaker? Price inflated thanks to supply and demand. Consequence of not owning a Timebreaker? Minus five points for Gryffindor? Otherwise, nothing. What's in a Chroma Case? An 'Exceedingly Rare Special Item!' Will my CS:GO experience be drastically different if I do not own a Chroma Case? One could argue yes, I will suffice with a firm 'no.' So, we've established that user generated content has existed in a fashion that has little to no impact on the individual user experience. Let's bounce around a bit.

Back to Bethesda! So how are we redefining what it means to be a modder? Isn't SMIM just another form of cosmetic bundled together in a neat little package? Yes and yes. Are we radically changing Skyrim by having not having SMIM installed? I'm obsessive compulsive so, yes. In reality, no. Skyrim is not a new game with SMIM installed [though sometimes it feels like it :(]. Morrowind Rebirth, Fallout Wanderer's Edition, New Vegas Enhanced Content, Project Nevada, Requiem, SkyRE - these are all total overhauls. Someone looking for a particular kind of experience, often goes to these types of "gameplay overhaul" mods to do so. Why does the player seek out these experiences? Because Bethesda has failed to provide the appropriate experience in the vanilla game. It's the consequence of success. In the process of becoming the "gold standard" Bethesda is forced to make difficult design decisions in order to appeal to the lowest common denominator. Systems get scrapped as "too spreadsheety" or "difficult to implement" or "detrimental to the new player experience." These "gameplay overhaul" mods provide the player with something the core game does not. The ability to customize or redefine the core experience to something more desirable. Now do note, I am not suggesting any of the aforementioned mods currently cost money. In fact, none of them do (to my knowledge). However, what happens when similar "gameplay overhauls" are only available at cost? When all the work and talent goes to developing the next "gameplay overhaul" available for Fallout 4? At say (arbitrary price, for the sake of even math), 16 bucks? Wait a second... Didn't I just pay 60 for this game? Why should I have to pay a modder 4 bucks and Bethesda 12 bucks for something that should be in Fallout 4 to begin with? Can't you expand my choice of available options in the vanilla game? What happened to the class system in Skyrim? Is it accessibility or cutting corners? Is there anything in Fallout 4 that can be snipped off, shoveling the workload on to modders, who then in turn give 75% of their proceeds to a pair of companies that invest nothing in the project?

Let's try the previous exercise again, with a different twist. Tamriel Rebuilt, A World of Pain, Falskaar, Wyrmstooth - these are all significant content mods. We're talking about hundreds, if not thousands of hours combined. These hours include new areas/zones, NPCs, enemies, quests, weapons - the stuff of expansions. What happens if these user generated expansion packs become the only sellers on the Steam Workshop? With only 25% of the profits going to the people who made these expansions? Where's the pressure for Bethesda to create their own expansion packs? Why not just turn all their DLC into followers and cosmetics? Houses and quests (sold as mini-adventures of course)? Think of this in terms of simple efficiency. If you're expending say (arbitrary number incoming) 100,000 man hours, 100 guys working at 1,000 hours each, to drop the next big expansion for Fallout 4 while a team of modders can do the same work, without the benefit of salaries, wouldn't you just opt to let the modders do the work? You can focus your efforts on the next big release, new IPs, new sources of revenue. As the saying goes, "build it so the modders can fix it."

Now, granted, this is all doomsday type stuff. Fire in the skies (smoke on the water). I could very easily argue against what I have just suggested. That stuff up there sounds like utter nonsense. Of course Bethesda isn't going to abandon their expansion packs, churn out fresh IPs, and outsource their work to modders. Right? But, do we want to risk the potential outcome? What happens if the worst does come to pass? I certainly don't want to see that happen. Now, I very well know SMIM will not cause the MODDING APOCALYPSE. Charging two bucks (or any number of bucks) for the content you have created is your right and is reasonable. However, can't modders take a second and say, "Hey! If you see enough value in the modding market to suggest a paid scheme, can I get a fair share?" Aren't Valve and Bethesda turning enough profit by investing near-to-nothing in the mods they host on the Workshop? Most consumers are reacting negatively because they like free stuff. I like free stuff. You could call that entitlement, sure. I call it simple caution. We won't know how far off Fallout 4 is until after June 14th (or whatever the reveal date is). Is it in our best interests, as both mod consumers and mod creators, to jump in feet first and not consider the potential consequences? Do we want to solidify the Bethesda Mod Market on a game that is almost four years old?

Anyway, I could ramble for ages. I rarely get out and type this much on... Anywhere. Y'all feel free to pick it apart as you please. I'm going to go dig up some Ancient Dagoth Brandy and imagine what the MODDING APOCALYPSE will be like. However, I will leave you all with a quote I find... Appropriate. Let's not allow Bethesda to get so caught up in making money, that they forget what makes this community worthwhile.

"Their collaboration with the Empire may have given them unrivaled political and economic strength, but their hearts weren't with the Dunmer people." -Adril Arano, on House Hlaalu.

Brumbek wrote: @icecreamassassin: interesting point about people copying other's work. That's the thing about SMIM though, ain't nobody insane enough to copy it. It is too grueling. So in a sense I can see the Valve system working...only the best mods will consistently sell. This assumes Valve has a proper way of sorting and ranking paid mods, which is unclear. But yes, the easy nonsense mods will overrun the SW with imitations galore. Again, I fear the truly quality mods will be lost.

Anyway, I still am torn...but never fear, all this has caused me to update SMIM to 1.75 finally. I will always, ALWAYS put the latest and greatest versions of SMIM on Skyrim Nexus. Withholding updates is diabolical. So in this sense, all us Nexus users never need to fear the SW. SMIM's true home is the Nexus, and I believe sincere and honest modders will gravitate to the Nexus, even if we allow SW to be a pay option for SW users.

Elegost75 wrote: So your internal dispute is if you should upload on SW but keep it on Nexus for free?

If so, just do it.

Ramon1 wrote: I don't think it's greedy to ask money for your work, I just hope that the Nexus can devise a way to help with this, so you don't have to give a Valve/Bethesda a dime for your work. The best suggestion I've seen is some sort of ad based partnership, no idea how can they encourage people to donate more also, but I hope they can find a middle ground for non-greedy modders like you and also to keep the mod scene open and free, they way it has always been.

marthgun wrote: I REFUSE to allow you (i will hunt you down) to get sucked into the shekel shoah that is steam.

Pandora's box has been opened. The skids have to be greased for modders to make money, we should accept that reality. But no way should you sell yourself short by allowing valve to steal from you.

25% is absolutely unacceptable. The fire rises. It will burn this thing to the ground. we need a rebuild initiative. Do not go to the dark side until the rebuild commences. the more high quality artists make the move now, the harder it will be to get an acceptable compensation.

GenBloodhorn wrote: So does that mean youre not joining the dark side?

Blitz54 wrote: In my opinion Brumbek, I feel that you could put SMIM on the Workshop for a price. I don't know what price, but considering some armor are 2 dollars by themselves, it makes you wonder how much you technically "could" charge.

But I say this because you said you'd continue to update nexus to the latest version always. The way I see it, the mod is free, and it's accessible on a great site, easy to find. If someone is willing to pay whatever the price is on the Workshop, that's fine too. I say why shouldn't you (an author of a mod in nearly all Skyrim installs) not make money off of the "not so smart" people that only use the workshop for mods?

But beware, comments on SMIM will still be spammed by upset people who think that wanting money for something they use is greedy. So I suggest waiting for a while to see how this whole workshop thing goes down.

Maruun wrote: Is Steam/Valve wanted to "support modders, they would add a donation button to any mod that is being uploaded to steam works.

Right now not modders monetise their work, its simple Valve that will monetize your mods and throwing you a bone as thanks for your hard work.

mkess wrote: That's exactly that I thought, too.

If they sell their mods, and use SKSE, BOSS. TESEDIT, Wrye bash, MCM, SKY UI, and all the other tools and mods, they, or better steam, has to PAY for them in the future. For every single use!

These tools ar for non-comercial use only. If they try to make money using them, it's only logical, that they have to pay the authors.

If they change the game, they have to change the payment for them as well. If I were the author of one of these tools, my lawyer would be busy now writing to steam, to congratulate them for this nice idea. ... And naming a price for the use of my tool. Plus naming an additional price for using the tool without permission.

Farvahar wrote: It's not you, it's not the users. It's the corporate suits. I af modder wants to try his luck with a 5 dollar mod (when AAA titles are available for less on Steam and often for free), by all means. But the bulk of the money should go to the modder. What I am seeing is exploitation and unethical business practices.

Jsmorris14 wrote: Don't know if anybody seen this? SKSE team on this subject.

http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1516811-discussion-for-workshop-paid-mods-thread-3/page-3#entry23943101

truehardlol wrote: Hey moderators and modders, do u ever thought of creating foundation system like Patreon, where content creators will put goal of $ for certain mod or mod update. I think this is more fairy system than that 75% greedy cut. Why should people pay valve/bethesda for things they didn't create?

NamelessTed wrote: I have always used SMIM when playing Skyrim and would probably find it worth some amount of money, especially if it meant more/better content. I paid for a lifetime Nexus membership because I use it a lot and it was worth it and haven't regretted it.

One thing people need to realize is that it will be a dynamic economy. People might try to overcharge early on but the community will eventually decide what is worth $1, 5, 10, etc. Anybody who is upset over the option to pay content creators for their content is insane. Of course the mod authors can choose to give their content away for free if they choose to, or they can ask for $1. There are over 2 million unique downloads for SMIM, if 5% of those people decided it would be worth $1, at 25% that is $25,000. Valve paid out over $10 million last year from TF2 and DOTA2 user created content. If people like you could suddenly support themselves modding a game image how much better and how much more you could be doing.

It is incredibly short sighted for all these people to complain about the option to pay for content. People also need to realize that this system is going to evolve over time. They talk a lot about how paid content changes balance in their games (negative or positive externalities) and they have made plenty of changes over time already.

dreamer2008 wrote: 2$ on SMIM, 2$ on another mod, then another... And we reach 50-100$ only on what we have installed right now. I appreciate your work Brumbek, but please consider at least leaving your current work on Nexus, and if you want to update your mod for the money, then upload the updated version on Steam.

Edit: After reading your replies on this discussion, I saw that you will upload the updates on Nexus. Thank you very much! I am afraid that not all mod developers will be like you though :(

Brumbek wrote: Thanks much to all for the thoughts! I'm withholding using SW for now. I want a Mod Greenlight system that recognizes ESTABLISHED mods like SMIM. But that probably will never happen. Sigh...we'll see. Thanks.

@marthgun: 25% is crazy low. The split should be the other way around since Valve/Bethesda already make HUGE sums from the sale of the games themselves. That is chiefly why I haven’t uploaded SMIM to SW. It does feel like they are taking big advantage of me, unlike Dark0ne who isn’t some uber-rich guy and lets me keep all my donation money.

@Blitz54: waiting is a wise move. I plan to wait, despite the feeling that I’m the dumb one for not jumping in and laughing as crazy people pay me money…which I only get 25% off. I just don’t like being extorted or extorting others…which SW sort of feels like ATM.

@Farvahar: well said.

@dreamer2008: yes, it is the bad apples that spoil it for us. I will never hide SMIM updates behind paywalls. Even if it would possibly bring in more income for the small price of my soul, ha!

Xtyfe00 wrote: Well done Brumbek, you should be the example for all to follow during this time. You have my respect for this.

foster xbl wrote: You are entitled To be compensated for the work
You've done. Furthermore you're entitled, to be compensated
For it without feeling torn.

sovs wrote: Get a job then and mod when you can, you say that you are torn, but i think it's clear that the decision has been made already.

Brumbek wrote: "Get a job" - always such wonderful, positive, and compassionate advice!

You know what is ironic, I noticed at least one paid mod on Steam Workshop has screenshots up showing SMIM objects in the background. Naturally, many users use SMIM, but this is yet another interesting question...posting screenshots on your paid mod that feature other modders content.

phantompally76 wrote: Brumbek, I use SMIM on all my playthroughs. It's a good mod. You did a nice job with it.

But I will never pay for it.

And there are plenty of clutter/static retexture mods out there that will always be free.

hfontanez wrote: Do it. I would pay a moderate fee for mods. I think $2.00 is more than reasonable. Most of us drop 20 times that in a bar on a Friday night. Besides, people have the balls to call someone greedy just because they want to charge a few extra bucks for their work when in reality, they are being greedy themselves for demanding something for free that took a lot of effort from someone else to put together.

I support your decision for you to get paid for your effort. There's nothing wrong with that.

sovs wrote: I would respect a donation goal in order to continue working on the mod, but paid mods will only bring out the worst in people having to engage in piracy and other unspeakable things.

As others said here it is not a question if we're willing to pay or not but how we do it, you want to be paid for your work then do it the right way and not by destroying the only freedom we have left.

digitaltrucker wrote: Don't forget; once your mod goes behind that paywall you've lost any control or privilege over it. Forever. Meaning that if you should decide to change your mind and make it free again (or even offer a free version), Steam and/or Bethsoft will have the incentive...and the right...to issue a DMCA takedown notice against you FOR YOUR OWN WORK.

Chesko basically had Arissa taken away from him in exactly that manner.

sovs wrote: i would much rather pay a small fee to Nexus when donating rather than having to use the steam workshop, i do believe that modders should be paid more than they do now. Most will never be willing to open their pockets unless the development of the mods they use is brought to a hault.

it could be subscription based like premium, where you pay monthly to download mods and the money is split between modders and Nexus.

Modders would be paid more or less depending on their contribution and the user would have to pay maybe 10-15 dollars a month in order to download mods.

Everything can be abused but it is much better than the alternative.

Brumbek wrote: @phantompally76: I already said SMIM will always remain free on the Nexus. If I charge on SW, that doesn’t impact Nexus.

@hfontanez: yeah, it is funny how quick we will drop $5 or $10 on fast food/coffee/beer for ourselves, but suddenly pause at $2-4 for a significant mod or something.

@digitaltrucker: my understanding is I still retain full control over the mod itself, meaning I can put it on Nexus for free without an issue. All that I lose is the ability to remove it from Steam Workshop since that would injure someone who has already paid for it. That makes perfect business sense.

Illutian wrote: I see no reason why you shouldn't get paid for work you did.

Anyone who believes otherwise is the 'greedy one'; they want you to work for free so THEY can profit (by having a better experience).

I firmly believe if people can monetize their hobbies they should. What better 'job' than doing something you love.

((What, did you all think Microsoft was planned? f*#@ no. It was a hobby.))

Brumbek wrote: I do sincerely thank everyone for their opinions. Talk about a tricky issue! Just to close my thoughts on this, I have submitted SMIM to paid Steam Workshop, asking $2-3.50 (or more because SW forces you to show the insanely high prices). After 2 days of reading and thinking, I don't make the decision lightly.

To sum up my thoughts: SMIM will always remain free and up-to-date on Skyrim Nexus. However, I view Steam Workshop as a way for more casual Skyrim players to pay for the best mods out there. The money I (hopefully) make will help motivate me to mod SMIM, which directly benefits the free Nexus users.

I also made a video about this that is posted on the paid Steam Workshop page (not yet visible, awaiting approval of Valve).

FreeSpeech wrote: I don't care about your sad life story. You concerned about money? You should've put more effort into your job, not doing a hobby for free. That's on you. I'm not paying you $2 for Horse Armor. I'm not going to pay you a cent so you can then run away with the cash with nothing holding you liable to update and finish your mod. I'm not going to pay you a God damn dime for amateur work on a game I've already paid for. That amounts to crap DLC.

Brumbek wrote: You have been reported FreeSpeech. Man life can be ironic.

ShadePT wrote: While he is crass he isn't wrong. I will not pay for unsupported mods that i will then have to fix myself following later updates when the modder decides to make a new mod because the old one isn't selling anymore and isn't worth updating.

Also the refund system leaves much to be desired. Mods conflict all the time and sellers would be insane to list the conflics on the purchase page that would disuade people from purchasing said mods. And as Valve as mentioned, the refund system will not be open for abuse, too many refunds and you will have your refund ability taken away.

All this will do, as mentioned earlier, is encourage small mods, retextures/model alterations.

Also anyone who mentioned CS:GO as good examples, those are online games. People don't purchase cosmetics in those games to look good for themselves. It's a "look at how cool i look" or worse "look what i can afford that you plebs cannot". I don't see how that would work in a single player game.

Personally i would like to see this crash and burn.

Solongchu wrote: Something Ive noticed hasnt been mentioned and that is if anyone should be paying modders for their mods it should be bethesda and valve,because without them all of bethesdas games would have crashed and burned.
All their games were broken and the modders stepped up and fixed them and made them worth playing for free while because of this their games continued to sell.
How long do you really think any of beths games would have lasted without the help of the modding community and now they want the modders to give them more.
I feel they have conned the modders into thinking this was good for them when it truly is only good for valve and beth.
So I dont blame the modders I blame Valve and beth because I believe they knew there was going to be a huge back lash from this and modders like Chesko have learnt that once they go to the dark side they are going to loose any control over what valve and Beth do with their mods.

ShadePT wrote: Expect more broken games and more unofficial patches that you need to pay for.
Imagine all the money they could save if instead of 10 armor sets they only release 5, those artists can move on to other projects or just be let go after their contract is up. I mean who cares right? Modders will step in and they still get 45%... I could probably have quite a few brand new armor sets lined up for next day release of the next elder scrolls if i truly wanted and i'm not even exceptional at 3d.

There will be an upside to this if it takes off. The next CK will be better docummented and maybe even have better support.

Fedack wrote: My suggestion is put it for money on steam but keep it free here! A lot of people use steam and only steam but those who actually care and are part of the tight community comes to the nexus and don't want anything to do with steam. Keep it for money there, have it free here. You give people a choice.

Xander9009 wrote: Can I make a suggestion that may or may not relatively appease everyone? Given that you've already stated very clearly that the Nexus will always have the latest version, how would feel about putting the mod up on the workshop with a very clear explanation at the beginning that it is in fact available for free here, with a link to its page? In addition, mention in that same section that if the person would rather donate instead, especially if they can't afford the price set, they can do that at the same place (with no link, just relying on the one already there).

That's just a suggestion, and I can't actually say I would like it myself, but that has nothing to do with you and everything to do with the fact that I cannot bring myself to support Valve and Bethesda's idea that the modder only deserves 25% of the profit from their mod. As for your comment about how you wouldn't be able to mod without Bethesda's support and creation of the game so maybe they do deserve 75%? They already got their money's worth out of the game. They invested time and money into making the game and they got the money from selling it, with Valve taking a portion for handling all of the future downloading/update distribution/installation/advertising (through steam)/everything. Could that be said about valve for your mod? Not really. Partially, yes, but not really.

A few key differences are that While Valve handles installing Skyrim really well, it handles installing mods really poorly. It handles updates poorly for both (though it's generally much better for the games themselves than it would be for mods). It handles downloading fantastically for games and well for mods, so kudos there. But ALL of that can be here on the Nexus for free. Bethesda got a lot of hassle taken off their hands by using Steam. You won't be. So, it's definitely arguable that Valve doesn't deserve 30-35% from mods like they do for games.

And Bethesda definitely doesn't deserve 40% from something that they've done nothing for. They made the CK. They made the game. But they got their money for the game, and the CK isn't used for a huge number of mods thanks to its uselessness in modeling/texturing. But they're still getting the 40% as if they did something to deserve it. Did they deserve the money I paid them for the game itself? Absolutely. For the money I'm paying to modders for mods they had no part in? Absolutely not.

So, it's your choice. I'll support your choice and your right to make that choice, but I'll still say that unless those percentages are flipped, I feel like anything on the CSW is Valve/Bethesda directly taking advantage of those mod creators, and it's those mod creators allowing themselves to be taken advantage of.

Morthrug wrote: The point is, it should be Bethesda that pays for your mods. Maybe not necessarily every ninja naruto big-breasts katana mods or LOTR-like retextures, but for sure unofficial patches, fixes, lore-oriented content etc. Tamriel Rebuilt, Unofficial Patches Team, SKSE etc. are but a few who should be entitled to at least minimum feedback from the game's creators. And by feedback, I also mean cash.

I think they should also consider head-hunting sort of thing (I've been thinking about it since I first played modded Morrowind), searching out talented modders and simply offering them a job. Imagine all those great mod-makers actually employed in the production of the next TES release, with appropriate tools, enough money and time granted by the company to focus on their WORK. This what Bethesda should do in first place, and not charging MODDERS (yes, since in the end the modders would have to pay the companies for the privilege of being able to cover up their laziness).

But I dare to say that Bethesda from the time of Morrowind is not the same company now. Setting aside dumbing down the game etc., their approach to us, the community, with the modders as unofficial workers and us, the users as sort of beta-testers has shifted since. And the aforementioned decision is the direct outcome. We actually let them gradually come to this. We accepted bugged Oblivion, we accepted cut content, we accepted half-made questlines, striking lore discrepancies (like Cyrodiil being lazily made a sparse temperate forest, and not a "dense, endless jungle", later pathetically covered up by Skyrim and ESO references). We also accepted the fact their Bethesda-made (DLC if you wish) mods got gradually lower when it comes to content and significance. Compare Tribunal or Bloodmoon or Shivering Isles with Heartfire or even so-much-praised Dragonborn. It's a good laugh, since we already had modder-made lore-accurate landmasses like Tamriel Rebuilt. But Bethesda seem to notice those great mods only when they could squeeze out a couple of bucks from both mod makers and mod users. And YOU think they DESERVE to be given 75% of the EFFORT modders made to FIX UP what they neglected? YOU are to blame for the whole situation now. I meant no disrespect for people like Brumbek, for they obviously have quite a broad outlook. Unlike those who use SW charging - not because they're greedy or anything, but they allow Bethesda to further nurture their ongoing regress. Should any of them whine about next TES being so dumb/simplified/bug-stuffed, I'll tell them they are guilty. Period.

I'm okay with Mod authors wanting to get paid or asking for money, but there is a lot of problems with buying mods and the SW Paid Mods system itself in my eyes.

I'm kind of glad you actually ask others before actually doing it, and giving it great thought and thinking Logically about it. I'm also very happy that you didn't put newer releases behind a pay wall, like some of the mods on SW are doing atm. :)

But I would advice you to be very careful. A few mod authors who did this are not happy with Steam and the Workshop right now.

[headlesswonder]

This is a very disappointing trend. It has always my opinion that modding is a pleasure, not a job. I expect that the majority of Skyrim players have no idea who I am or what mods I've created, as I was a modder for Morrowind (and have dabbled in some for Oblivion and Skyrim in a behind the scenes manner) so it may be that my opinion on this matter will amount to less than a can of beans. That having been said, perhaps it is coming from an old-school mindset that I find the idea of charging for mods to be a disgraceful one.

To be clear, I spent over a year on one of my mods. It was a massive undertaking. I was not well-off financially and certainly could have done with more coin. Considering that said mod tallied nearly two million downloads among the various sites where it was hosted, if this sort of thing was available at the time, I could have made a killing had I chosen to charge. However, it never would have crossed my mind to wish I could make money off those who used it. I did not ask for, nor did I want donations. In short, I was doing something I loved and sharing it with other people who also loved it. That, in and of itself, was satisfaction enough, and the words of those who took the time to praise it (and even those who offered constructive criticism) were thanks enough. It is sickening to me that we are now in a world where even those pleasures become about money.

There is also the matter of compilation packs and otherwise dealing with people submitting your work as their own and profiting from it. As have other modders, I have been in the position of having my work credited to someone else, sometimes due to honest mistakes and other times due to dishonest people attempting to pass my work off as their own. Being so against the idea of charging for mods, I can assure you that I would be furious with someone charging for my work in any fashion - not because the funds would be going to someone else rather than to me, but because they would be including my work in something I am adamantly opposed to.

I don't see that there is any reason to be "torn" about whether or not to charge for mods. For me, it's about retaining the integrity of the modders and the community as a whole. I can't tell anyone what to do, and there are plenty of people who jump at the chance of money regardless of the consequence, but I do encourage both modders and users to consider what this situation ultimately leads to in terms of what has made the modding community so awesome. Low participation is the only thing that will tell these companies, "We will not tolerate your greed in this way." Do with that as you will.

And, I have to say - shame on Valve for starting this and also on Bethesda for taking part in it.

Edited April 26, 2015 by headlesswonder

[SoMteam]

NO, my mod will remain free.

[Thephedora]

In response to post #24682644.

SoMteam wrote:

I have yet to release any, but I've with you there. Mine will remain free aswell.