Steam and Bethesda remove paid modding from Skyrim Workshop

[lereddit]

In response to post #24787449.

GoldenDragonRider wrote:

I've seen quite a few people starting to donate more already.

It's nice to see that this whole deal has at least something positive about it.

[e498506]

In response to post #24731789. #24731909, #24732094, #24732139, #24732229, #24732289, #24734304, #24734404, #24734464, #24734509, #24735149, #24786969, #24787854, #24790254, #24790854 are all replies on the same post.

nonemployee wrote:

Riprock wrote: Impossible to avoid ruffling feathers going the other way, I'm afraid. Omelet and eggs however, in my opinion. We can't go back but we can go forward :)

Avastgard wrote: I feel bad for the modders who took the time to make these updates only to have them removed days later. After this, we may never see SkyUI v. 5.

CelticPaladin wrote: If I received the death threats those people did I'd give modding a middle finger and go straight back into IT.

phantompally76 wrote: Those versions of Isoku's mods still belong to Valve. LEGALLY they can tell him he can't put them on here.

I'm not at all sure they'd be bold enough to try that though.

On the other hand, would he be bold enough to update them here?

sa547 wrote: It's unfortunate that on Reddit one of the members of the SkyUI team used the wrong approach and language, hence he sort of wrecked the mod's public image.

Aavok wrote: Wait, what happened on Reddit?

daedriccat wrote: He said that there was no community in Skyrim.

Beetlecat wrote: I'm not sure it's true that he *can't* distribute them elsewhere, only that Valve can legitimately do what they want with them.

phantompally76 wrote: Wasn't just reddit.

Go look at SKYUI's comments section on here. It's been locked, but the dev's arrogant, condescending and smug demeanor is preserved.

Yes, he was taking a beating from some VERY angry commenters, but he was also taunting them. That's unacceptable, and for that reason I will never upgrade or endorse SkyUI whether they upload it or not.

SirTopas wrote: @phantompally76 - But you'll keep using it, won't you? You seem to lack the strength of conviction to uninstall it, but you'll trash the authors and say "I won't upgrade". Pretty weak sauce.

diluvium wrote: "Those versions of Isoku's mods still belong to Valve. LEGALLY they can tell him he can't put them on here."

Re-read section 6 of your subscriber agreement - The rights you, I and Isoku granted to Valve in order to upload things are non-exclusive.

phantompally76 wrote: SirTopas, stand down.

I only use it anyway because 99% of mods require it. If I uninstall it, I forfeit the ability to mod at all, and I won't give those jerks the satisfaction. Nor you.

Given the choice, I would have never used it to begin with. If there was another option, you can bet I would use it.

As it is, I will never upgrade.

Regardless, it's honestly none of your business. But thanks for trying to make it yours. You've spent a great deal of the past few days sticking your nose in where it isn't wanted. I won't forget that, son.

foster xbl wrote: @phatom

So, you won't uninstall it.... But it was made by " a 14 year old stoner demanding you make him a living"
I'm sorry I know I said I was done.... But wow.
Who's the entitled hypocrite now.
With this one post you've completely proven everything
You've been spewing for days is totally Bull

Feel free to try and save face here with some asinine reply
But I won't see it, I'll take my leave knowing full well I was right about you.

Fowldragon wrote: Phantom,

Legality and established practice are not mutually exclusive...What Valve/Bethesda have done in past actions/policy establishes an expectation. If that policy is observed over a period of YEARS, they have , De FACTO rewritten their LEGAL rights. So IF such an Unexpected and contradictory action were taken on their part, they would not have any protection other than the ill-informed assumptions of those who don't know what the hell they're talking about.

@Phantom,

In other words, you just want free stuff because you are entitled to?.
nice one hypocrite. go make your own SKYUI then, do it for the LOVE OF MODDING. Edited April 29, 2015 by e498506

[Fowldragon]

In response to post #24786564.

Billy1969 wrote:

You consider each project a contract. 1099 all your staff as independent sub-contractors..THUS, the amount they receive is renegotiated with each project. The compensation doesn't go up or down whether the project never sees publication, or it becomes a GOY and earns a THOUSAND awards.

As for property, I would consider the rights to ALL unique content to be retained by the original Author and would get explicit consent for its use, provided the cost to do so doesn't exceed the cost to make it myself. Edited April 29, 2015 by Fowldragon

[RemusAluthr]

Its amazing how Money, (a paltry sum of it might I add) managed to tear a community that was going strong for 5 years apart in a matter of 3 days. To the point where the damage done here alone could shut down the modding community entirely over the next few months.

 

Silly to even consider it but perhaps there was a hidden agenda to see this happen from the start. After all an entire community that embraced free mods for years wouldn't be a welcomed opposition to a pay wall system placed by the people who made and sponsor the game.

 

I mean, there was no way that Valve and Bethesda honestly didn't see this coming when they thought, lets shake up things in the modding community and see what happens.

 

Because at the end of the day, Valve and Bethesda are a part of Corporate Business. They exist to make money, and to spend as little money as possible to reach a return profit. This step didnt earn them any profit because they returned it, but it had a clear impact on a free to play community and shook the foundation to its core. IF they try this again (and they almost certaintly will, though probably on a different game with a weaker community base) It could effectively succeed And there is profit, with almost no effort on their part.

[shinji72]

In response to post #24731789. #24731909, #24732094, #24732139, #24732229, #24732289, #24734304, #24734404, #24734464, #24734509, #24735149, #24786969, #24787854, #24790254, #24790854, #24791049 are all replies on the same post.

nonemployee wrote:

Riprock wrote: Impossible to avoid ruffling feathers going the other way, I'm afraid. Omelet and eggs however, in my opinion. We can't go back but we can go forward :)

Avastgard wrote: I feel bad for the modders who took the time to make these updates only to have them removed days later. After this, we may never see SkyUI v. 5.

CelticPaladin wrote: If I received the death threats those people did I'd give modding a middle finger and go straight back into IT.

phantompally76 wrote: Those versions of Isoku's mods still belong to Valve. LEGALLY they can tell him he can't put them on here.

I'm not at all sure they'd be bold enough to try that though.

On the other hand, would he be bold enough to update them here?

sa547 wrote: It's unfortunate that on Reddit one of the members of the SkyUI team used the wrong approach and language, hence he sort of wrecked the mod's public image.

Aavok wrote: Wait, what happened on Reddit?

daedriccat wrote: He said that there was no community in Skyrim.

Beetlecat wrote: I'm not sure it's true that he *can't* distribute them elsewhere, only that Valve can legitimately do what they want with them.

phantompally76 wrote: Wasn't just reddit.

Go look at SKYUI's comments section on here. It's been locked, but the dev's arrogant, condescending and smug demeanor is preserved.

Yes, he was taking a beating from some VERY angry commenters, but he was also taunting them. That's unacceptable, and for that reason I will never upgrade or endorse SkyUI whether they upload it or not.

SirTopas wrote: @phantompally76 - But you'll keep using it, won't you? You seem to lack the strength of conviction to uninstall it, but you'll trash the authors and say "I won't upgrade". Pretty weak sauce.

diluvium wrote: "Those versions of Isoku's mods still belong to Valve. LEGALLY they can tell him he can't put them on here."

Re-read section 6 of your subscriber agreement - The rights you, I and Isoku granted to Valve in order to upload things are non-exclusive.

phantompally76 wrote: SirTopas, stand down.

I only use it anyway because 99% of mods require it. If I uninstall it, I forfeit the ability to mod at all, and I won't give those jerks the satisfaction. Nor you.

Given the choice, I would have never used it to begin with. If there was another option, you can bet I would use it.

As it is, I will never upgrade.

Regardless, it's honestly none of your business. But thanks for trying to make it yours. You've spent a great deal of the past few days sticking your nose in where it isn't wanted. I won't forget that, son.

foster xbl wrote: @phatom

So, you won't uninstall it.... But it was made by " a 14 year old stoner demanding you make him a living"
I'm sorry I know I said I was done.... But wow.
Who's the entitled hypocrite now.
With this one post you've completely proven everything
You've been spewing for days is totally Bull

Feel free to try and save face here with some asinine reply
But I won't see it, I'll take my leave knowing full well I was right about you.

Fowldragon wrote: Phantom,

Legality and established practice are not mutually exclusive...What Valve/Bethesda have done in past actions/policy establishes an expectation. If that policy is observed over a period of YEARS, they have , De FACTO rewritten their LEGAL rights. So IF such an Unexpected and contradictory action were taken on their part, they would not have any protection other than the ill-informed assumptions of those who don't know what the hell they're talking about.

e498506 wrote: @Phantom,

In other words, you just want free stuff because you are entitled to?.
nice one hypocrite. go make your own SKYUI then, do it for the LOVE OF MODDING.

Purity, which was on sale on the workshop, Is currently on the Hotfiles

[Winterdragon]

New Suggestion to Valve and Bethesda, add paid mods to Fallout 4 AT RELEASE AND NOT 3.5 YEARS LATER so mods that are already installed don't suddenly get a premium version or go paid.

Give the modders a little more than 25% so the argument that people could makes mods to earn money makes sense.

And, you, Valve and Bethesda, will have to moderate the paid mods section and not the community because if a stolen mod or a mods with stolen assets is sold and you both receive money from it you are both taking stolen money as well and if you don't see the point in that last argument I'm not sure if I even want Fallout 4 or anything else from you guys.

[GoldenDragonRider]

In response to post #24791749.

RemusAluthr wrote:

To me, the fact that the community is so divided by this, sort of showed what a delicate system this truly is. It's as if the community was built as 2D graphite sheets rather than the 3D diamond lattice we thought. No one could have expected a turn out as messy as this...

[Fowldragon]

In response to post #24731789. #24731909, #24732094, #24732139, #24732229, #24732289, #24734304, #24734404, #24734464, #24734509, #24735149, #24786969, #24787854, #24790254, #24790854, #24791049, #24792304 are all replies on the same post.

nonemployee wrote:

Riprock wrote: Impossible to avoid ruffling feathers going the other way, I'm afraid. Omelet and eggs however, in my opinion. We can't go back but we can go forward :)

Avastgard wrote: I feel bad for the modders who took the time to make these updates only to have them removed days later. After this, we may never see SkyUI v. 5.

CelticPaladin wrote: If I received the death threats those people did I'd give modding a middle finger and go straight back into IT.

phantompally76 wrote: Those versions of Isoku's mods still belong to Valve. LEGALLY they can tell him he can't put them on here.

I'm not at all sure they'd be bold enough to try that though.

On the other hand, would he be bold enough to update them here?

sa547 wrote: It's unfortunate that on Reddit one of the members of the SkyUI team used the wrong approach and language, hence he sort of wrecked the mod's public image.

Aavok wrote: Wait, what happened on Reddit?

daedriccat wrote: He said that there was no community in Skyrim.

Beetlecat wrote: I'm not sure it's true that he *can't* distribute them elsewhere, only that Valve can legitimately do what they want with them.

phantompally76 wrote: Wasn't just reddit.

Go look at SKYUI's comments section on here. It's been locked, but the dev's arrogant, condescending and smug demeanor is preserved.

Yes, he was taking a beating from some VERY angry commenters, but he was also taunting them. That's unacceptable, and for that reason I will never upgrade or endorse SkyUI whether they upload it or not.

SirTopas wrote: @phantompally76 - But you'll keep using it, won't you? You seem to lack the strength of conviction to uninstall it, but you'll trash the authors and say "I won't upgrade". Pretty weak sauce.

diluvium wrote: "Those versions of Isoku's mods still belong to Valve. LEGALLY they can tell him he can't put them on here."

Re-read section 6 of your subscriber agreement - The rights you, I and Isoku granted to Valve in order to upload things are non-exclusive.

phantompally76 wrote: SirTopas, stand down.

I only use it anyway because 99% of mods require it. If I uninstall it, I forfeit the ability to mod at all, and I won't give those jerks the satisfaction. Nor you.

Given the choice, I would have never used it to begin with. If there was another option, you can bet I would use it.

As it is, I will never upgrade.

Regardless, it's honestly none of your business. But thanks for trying to make it yours. You've spent a great deal of the past few days sticking your nose in where it isn't wanted. I won't forget that, son.

foster xbl wrote: @phatom

So, you won't uninstall it.... But it was made by " a 14 year old stoner demanding you make him a living"
I'm sorry I know I said I was done.... But wow.
Who's the entitled hypocrite now.
With this one post you've completely proven everything
You've been spewing for days is totally Bull

Feel free to try and save face here with some asinine reply
But I won't see it, I'll take my leave knowing full well I was right about you.

Fowldragon wrote: Phantom,

Legality and established practice are not mutually exclusive...What Valve/Bethesda have done in past actions/policy establishes an expectation. If that policy is observed over a period of YEARS, they have , De FACTO rewritten their LEGAL rights. So IF such an Unexpected and contradictory action were taken on their part, they would not have any protection other than the ill-informed assumptions of those who don't know what the hell they're talking about.

e498506 wrote: @Phantom,

In other words, you just want free stuff because you are entitled to?.
nice one hypocrite. go make your own SKYUI then, do it for the LOVE OF MODDING.

shinji72 wrote: Purity, which was on sale on the workshop, Is currently on the Hotfiles

As well it should be.

[macintroll]

In response to post #24771999. #24772144, #24772774, #24772924, #24773434, #24776364, #24776744, #24777839, #24777939 are all replies on the same post.

zanity wrote:

Nidhoegger wrote: Because some of us are old enough to still remember when we actually owned our games.

macintroll wrote: People do not want to pay for mods = they are right
Modders would like to get some $ from their work = they are right too

Why not use the same concept as youtube ?

Ads are paying the youtubber, not the users.
Why not doing the same for mods ?

- Modder get some $ depending on mod popularity / page views / ads clicked
- player can download for free all mods.
- A moderation, a rating system and users reviews to keep things in the right way like it is already in place here.

So only Advertisers pay like everywhere else on the internet...
It's not the mod itself which is rewarded, it's popularity and audience like any youtube video.

Sound too simple or ?

phantompally76 wrote: This.

It will be a cold day in Hell before I pay a monthly subscription for the privilege of serving as quality control for mods of varying quality and value that may or may not even work.

The complete and utter lack of common sense among proponents of amateur mod monetization is frightening.

CyrusFyre wrote: I will give you a very good reason why I won't be and will strongly and loudly discourage others from paying a monthly subscription to getting mods. Because when you pay to play a game with a monthly subscription the game developer is obligated to continue providing updates, patches and so forth to their game. Now (and this is actually a big factor in my paid vs free considerations as well) mod authors are under no such obligation. In my opinion if you are charging money for your mod then you are now providing a service and as such should be subjected to upholding certain obligations. How many mods have been made that started good but then get abandoned because the author loses interests, their PC has issues, Real Life starts kicking their A$$, etc.?

Just what protects the mod users from this? We pay for something we don’t necessarily receive, quality. And for older games like Skyirm that isn’t such a big deal because no new patches will be coming out but with a game like Fallout 4 they will be patching and modding right alongside each other. How many mods get broken by patches? Who will enforce that these mod authors have to fix the broken mods you’ve paid for? It is expected that if Bethesda released a DLC and then a patch that broke the DLC that they would immediately get to fixing that DLC. Mod authors have no such obligation.

And for a measly 25% maybe they shouldn’t have such an obligation. I agree with macintroll suggests and use ads to pay for things and have a donation button so that people can reward those who are truly amazing. And for those who just hate ads go the way of YouTube and Premium Nexus and TSR and pay a subscription to remove the frigging ads.

user134 wrote: @Cyrus: Exactly! Modders don't have resources (namely engineers, time and money) at their disposal to make everything public ready. And surely, like you touched on, a company like Bethesda would be in much deeper s#*! if their game didn't work, than some lowly modder.
That said, I don't think ads are the solution. That's why even people who aren't tech savvy know how to write obscure adblock+ rules. :-P In all seriousness, people are already tired of being bombarded with (usually) irrelevant and/or intrusive ads.

macintroll wrote: @user134 : Ads are a (little) annoyance till they don't block everything on the page,
But It's ads who are keeping free sites like nexus alive, ads that permit you to use at no cost facebook, google tools and all major free-content websites.
when there's no ads you have to pay. And simply if you want to support free content sites, just click on their ads they will have more incomes that way than any lifetime subscription.. and it's still free for you.

user134 wrote: I understand the implications. But my point is modders must acknowledge they're volunteering, not attempting to make a career off of a game, with a team of beta testers and engineers on their payroll. This is how its always been. I also question the legality of your idea, because wouldn't this require reverse engineering Skyrim itself (surely the CK has its limitations)?
Personally, I'm fine with a donate button. It means I don't need to test a mod as intensely to ensure proper functionality, or worry about being provided with something of low quality at an unfair price. I'm not against paying modders and I will acknowledge when something's good, but I'm sorry.. simply releasing a mod doesn't necessitate payment.

Edit: wording.

arxerisdam wrote: Why not use the same concept as youtube ?

Ads are paying the youtubber, not the users.
Why not doing the same for mods ?

Thats a good idea.

Still i wonder how many people will be willing to pay for a mod.

For a game you already have to pay $60+ and still give 75% of the mod price to the game developer, better they start making free to play games and sell stuff like sword of power $10 for a week of use

Is just crazy.

and there is the problem with bugs in bethesta games that are left for modders to fix is just not logical.

And what guarantee we have such mods are compatible and will be in full working and bug free, even developers release games with lots of bugs and people still buy them, mod makers can just stop developing the mods in any stage with no repercution or responsability.

Quality control!!!!

Thats another issue, who will watch for the quality of the mods.

Compatibility between mods.

Thats a big problem, a lot of mods arent compatible with each other, all mods need to be standardized, because if you install any mod you need to do a lot of stuff to keep it compatible with other mods.


And finally, maybe a lot of modders think been an user is a priviledge, well im sorry but i think the more important thing than anything else if yuo want to start selling your mods is that you please and respect the customers, because in the end its they who are spending their money in your mod.

And rigth now modders can have the liberty to send to hell users who use the mod for free but once you start charging money for them it will only give you bad name.

so for paid mods be a reality there is a long path ahead.

@ arxerisdam
Not sure to understand your points ?

If advertising pay the modder, the mod is still 100% free for users.
It's exactly the same as here currently : a mod page, people read, check and download. Done

Some ads are shown on the page, those ads give money to the "content provider" aka the modder account, exactly like the youtube concept. (google adsense do this very well ^^)

The more popular is the mod (pages view, clicks), the more advertising is giving money to the modder.
No payment, no price for mod, no more difference for the end user.
free mods, and retribution for the "content maker" like everywhere else.

[OiramX5]

In response to post #24731789. #24731909, #24732094, #24732139, #24732229, #24732289, #24734304, #24734404, #24734464, #24734509, #24735149, #24786969, #24787854, #24790254, #24790854, #24791049, #24792304, #24793389 are all replies on the same post.

nonemployee wrote:

Riprock wrote: Impossible to avoid ruffling feathers going the other way, I'm afraid. Omelet and eggs however, in my opinion. We can't go back but we can go forward :)

Avastgard wrote: I feel bad for the modders who took the time to make these updates only to have them removed days later. After this, we may never see SkyUI v. 5.

CelticPaladin wrote: If I received the death threats those people did I'd give modding a middle finger and go straight back into IT.

phantompally76 wrote: Those versions of Isoku's mods still belong to Valve. LEGALLY they can tell him he can't put them on here.

I'm not at all sure they'd be bold enough to try that though.

On the other hand, would he be bold enough to update them here?

sa547 wrote: It's unfortunate that on Reddit one of the members of the SkyUI team used the wrong approach and language, hence he sort of wrecked the mod's public image.

Aavok wrote: Wait, what happened on Reddit?

daedriccat wrote: He said that there was no community in Skyrim.

Beetlecat wrote: I'm not sure it's true that he *can't* distribute them elsewhere, only that Valve can legitimately do what they want with them.

phantompally76 wrote: Wasn't just reddit.

Go look at SKYUI's comments section on here. It's been locked, but the dev's arrogant, condescending and smug demeanor is preserved.

Yes, he was taking a beating from some VERY angry commenters, but he was also taunting them. That's unacceptable, and for that reason I will never upgrade or endorse SkyUI whether they upload it or not.

SirTopas wrote: @phantompally76 - But you'll keep using it, won't you? You seem to lack the strength of conviction to uninstall it, but you'll trash the authors and say "I won't upgrade". Pretty weak sauce.

diluvium wrote: "Those versions of Isoku's mods still belong to Valve. LEGALLY they can tell him he can't put them on here."

Re-read section 6 of your subscriber agreement - The rights you, I and Isoku granted to Valve in order to upload things are non-exclusive.

phantompally76 wrote: SirTopas, stand down.

I only use it anyway because 99% of mods require it. If I uninstall it, I forfeit the ability to mod at all, and I won't give those jerks the satisfaction. Nor you.

Given the choice, I would have never used it to begin with. If there was another option, you can bet I would use it.

As it is, I will never upgrade.

Regardless, it's honestly none of your business. But thanks for trying to make it yours. You've spent a great deal of the past few days sticking your nose in where it isn't wanted. I won't forget that, son.

foster xbl wrote: @phatom

So, you won't uninstall it.... But it was made by " a 14 year old stoner demanding you make him a living"
I'm sorry I know I said I was done.... But wow.
Who's the entitled hypocrite now.
With this one post you've completely proven everything
You've been spewing for days is totally Bull

Feel free to try and save face here with some asinine reply
But I won't see it, I'll take my leave knowing full well I was right about you.

Fowldragon wrote: Phantom,

Legality and established practice are not mutually exclusive...What Valve/Bethesda have done in past actions/policy establishes an expectation. If that policy is observed over a period of YEARS, they have , De FACTO rewritten their LEGAL rights. So IF such an Unexpected and contradictory action were taken on their part, they would not have any protection other than the ill-informed assumptions of those who don't know what the hell they're talking about.

e498506 wrote: @Phantom,

In other words, you just want free stuff because you are entitled to?.
nice one hypocrite. go make your own SKYUI then, do it for the LOVE OF MODDING.

shinji72 wrote: Purity, which was on sale on the workshop, Is currently on the Hotfiles

Fowldragon wrote: As well it should be.

Well, the author of SkyUI says he eventually go release the update here when SKSE has been update (He already have the 5.0 finished anyway), the other two still in lockdown and the modder still silent.

Hope the every modder see the not everyone is a hater.