Drawing a line under recent events and moving on

[Harbringe]

Of all the things said in the TotalBiscuit interview done by Brumbek and Dark0ne that I think best speaks to what happened last weekend was that normal subscriptions run from between 3000 - 6000 per day , yet on Saturday of last week it was over 13000 . I would even imagine Dark0ne if he cared to share the data could tell us there was a mini spike in premiun memberships and with the flood of people coming in it tells us 3 things . 1) Some of these people were so panicked that they thought the only way they could fix it was by buying a premiun membership (notice how many people had premiun memberships yet were making their first post ever) 2) alot of them just screamed and freaked out (notice how many people sreaming that had like a very short post count , again some of them their very first post) 3) all of this was coming down on modders making them feel the community didn't support them or appreciate them . Simple fact is our community got invaded last week because many didn't know where else to go when it comes to where mods come from .

 

Nexus: 1) A connection or series of connections linking two or more things:the nexus between industry and political power

 

2) A connected group or series: a nexus of ideas

 

3)A central or focal point: the nexus of any government in this country is No. 10

 

I would be very interested in the statistics of subscription to the site and premiun member increase if one . Think that would tell us alot about how much of a focal point we were , because I dont think what happened is indicative of this community.

[phantompally76]

There will be no sweeping the past couple of weeks under the rug. Too much has happened; too much as been said. Too many true colors have been shown.

 

This controversy has exposed a rift that has existed between mod authors and mod users for years. The nature of the relationship between those entities has changed forever. Mutual trust, appreciation and respect are gone. Mod authors used this controversy as an excuse to lash out at mod users for not being appreciative enough (with their wallets) over the years, and for not supporting the monetization of amateur modding. And mod users used it as an excuse to lash out at mod authors who don't recognize mod users as being an equally important factor in the modding community, and for trivializing users' thankfulness and gratitude or authors' efforts because it wasn't in the form of a check.

 

No, this tale is not complete, and in the end, no one "won" anything. We lost some really good mod authors. On the other hand, we lost some really arrogant, selfish and belligerent mod authors as well. We also lost several dedicated and appreciative mod users, and yes, we lost some unrepentant sociopaths who weren't here to argue for any cause, but instead to foment strife and ill will.

 

But what did we gain? New blood? New modders to replace the old? I'm not so sure that anyone who has been living under a rock for the past 4 years and has never played Skyrim is going to pick it up as a result of this fiasco. Will mod users who have never even tried to make a mod before step up and replace the casualties? In a toxic environment where mod users are lashing out at the most trivial issues with mods, and mod authors are lashing out at the most trivial criticisms, would any sane individual want to get involved in this community? I guess we'll find out.

 

My own personal modding habits are definitely changing. Moving forward, I won't be using any mods that are dependent upon SkyUI (not only because they were going to charge for the latest version, but because of the arrogant, taunting, condescending manner in which SkyUI's devs addressed the entire community; proponents AND opponents of paid modding alike), so there goes 90+% of the mods out there. And that's ok. I was getting really fed up with script-intensive mods causing save bloat and CTDs anyway. And today I remembered that I only ever used SkyUI because I was compelled to, and that I actually preferred the vanilla menus all along.

 

So moving forward, my modding is probably going to be restricted to texture replacers, and that's ok, too. It will be nice to not have to worry about whether a mod is going to glitch the game or make it unplayable. I've actually been having fun the past day or two loading up on mods that replace SMIM; mods I would have otherwise never even looked for, and that might finally get their fair shake in the spotlight. That, at least, may be ONE positive that comes out of this ordeal.

 

Edited May 2, 2015 by phantompally76

[darkslayer666]

Dark0ne:

 

Forgive my ignorance on this topic but; Why doesn't Nexus help the modders more?

 

As it stands endorsements don't really do anything, other than boost ego. I'd like some Nexus revenue to go to modders... 1000 endorsements for $100?

 

I don't know, like I said, how much does Nexus generate income, but with it's size I'd wager quite a lot since there's a big traffic here. I mean you got the dough for managers but not for your $$$ generators? Priorities man.

 

Perhaps increase ad's on Nexus to support modders? People will also be more inclined to endorse.

 

I personally think Nexus doesn't take care of their modders much at all, and I don't agree with some of your choices. I know Nexus is a business and it's survival is your priority but no modders = no Nexus.

 

Relying on donations solely while taking 100% of revenue is not going to last forever as you've seen from Steam. And you also asked the modders to put nexus as a provider(which is about 5% of revenue) I mean... I bet they scratched their heads asking when did Nexus give them 5%.

 

I can write more, but as I've said, I'm not much knowledgeable on this subject and would like the communities help on this. I feel like Nexus isn't much better in my eyes.

 

If my post is offensive so be it.. good bye, but I feel like too many people aren't questioning this as well.

[jennawatson]

No doubt that at a glance, it looked to me like someone was trying to saw off the legs of the chair that nexus was sitting in. Taking away the best modders, for money, would have caused people to settle for more lower quality, or fewer good quality, mods. As a result, it would have destabilized The Nexus, over time.

 

Nexus is providing increasingly better content, in many respects, than some of the for-profit gaming businesses.

 

Now we are forced to reflect upon what was in our minds when that happened, and make the choice to do what is "right" in the interest of the majority.

 

Tomorrow is a new day, and New Modders will be born.

Edited May 2, 2015 by jennawatson

[Azulyn]

In response to post #24862529. #24864589, #24864824, #24866544, #24867284, #24867429, #24867469, #24868034, #24868259, #24868684, #24868979 are all replies on the same post.

EvilDeadAsh34 wrote: Money will eventually destroy everything. Greed is an amazing thing... No one can do anything just for the pure joy of it anymore. Every action has to be monetized. Gimme more, gimme anything, just gimme.

I will never pay for a user created mod. It does not matter what the mod would be, how epic it is, how integral to the game it could possibly be, i will not be forced to pay for them. Donations, okay. Paywalls, hell no.

And to the people who support paid mods i have one thing to say. Be careful what you wish for because you just might get it.

fireundubh wrote: Greed is about excess. Wanting financial rewards for a job well done, for creativity, for talent, for technical skill, and for entertaining you isn't greed. That's self-respect.

Vesuvius1745 wrote: Before this whole debacle, mod authors were just fine with creating mods because it was a hobby they enjoyed doing. Their "compensation" was the enjoyment of doing it. Like collecting stamps, planting award-winning roses, or *insert some hobby here*. You don't have to share the fruits of your hobby with anyone, but you chose to engage in that hobby, and that doesn't necessarily entitle you to financial compensation. If you want to get paid for doing this sort of thing, you should try and get a job at a game company.

perrob wrote: Vesuvius- really? You can speak, conclusively, for every mod author out there?

No. You don't, can't, and you're provably wrong regardless - several mod authors signed up *BEFORE* this all blew up. Several have tried - on the Nexus!!! - to charge via donations - only sending out updates to those who donated. While, IMO, that's wrong, it has happened in the past here, showing that some authors have always wanted a way to charge for their work.

There are many mod authors who, while doing it for the love of it, or the experience of it, or whatever!, are ok with giving it away. Some though, also like having the option to charge for something they spend more time on.

The 'get a job' thing is just total crap. What if they have a job? Are they not then entitled to still make some money from the thing they created? What if they can't get a job - through ill health, disability, familial circumstance, or whatever that is none of your or my business? Still not allowed to charge?

I think you need to apply a little empathy when thinking something through from another's point of view. It's startlingly unfair to accuse mod authors of greed if they ask for money.

And in the end, if you don't want to pay for the mod... don't pay for it. That part, at least, IS in your control.

SirTopas wrote: "Money eventually destroys everything."

Right.

Money destroyed the internet. I mean, a lot fewer people have broadband now and there a lot fewer sites to visit on the 'net than 20 years ag...umm.

Well, money definitely destroyed the PC market. There are a lot fewer PC models to choose from and they're more expensive and less capable than they were 20 years ag...nope.

Then money certainly destroyed video gaming in general. There a lot fewer games available on fewer platforms now than there were 20 years ag...uh, wrong again.

"Greed is an amazing thing..."

Yup, sure is. Especially for those who demand that others provide their time and effort to them for free. Doesn't get much greedier than that.

" will not be forced to pay for them."

Nobody has the power to force you to pay for a mod. Pure strawman argument.

tiwa44 wrote: STOP !!!!!!! :)

Vesuvius1745 wrote: Perrob, up until a month ago there was no possibility of mod authors being paid. However, free mods still showed up on the Nexus. Why is that? We can assume several things, such as 1) the mod authors were doing it for the enjoyment of it, or 2) mod authors were doing it to hone their modding skills, or 3) mod authors were doing it for something to put on their resume. Or perhaps a mix of all the above, or some reason not listed here. But I think the above reasons are fairly good assumptions. No where was a monetary incentive in this equation.

Mod authors are not entitled to sell their mods. The reason for this is because you are utilizing Bethesda's Intellectual property from start to finish, and by checking that "I agree" button on their EULA, you are accepting a contract which states that Bethesda has a right to dictate how you may (or may not) use the derivative content they allowed you to create.

So the bottom line is if you want to sell mods, you need to ask Bethesda for permission. Crying about it here is like urinating into a strong wind.

EnaiSiaion wrote: Good to know anything we do is worthless to you. I'll add your name to my blacklist.

guichong wrote: Many of the user created mods put the developers work to shame. SkyUI and any of the exposure immersion mods are examples. Yet they have the gall to stick out their hand and demand a lion's share of the profits? Ridiculous, and is the reason why i will never buy a mod from the workshop. If they are really serious about wanting to help the mod community grow, they should consider buying out some of the best mods, buy the IP from the modders and implement it into an official DLC bundle and/or their next upcoming title. Problem solved , at little or no extra cost to the consumer base. As much as I want to support modders, i simply find it unrealistic to buy or even donate directly to all of the 100+ mods that i regularly use.

EnaiSiaion wrote:

Before this whole debacle, mod authors were just fine with creating mods because it was a hobby they enjoyed doing. Their "compensation" was the enjoyment of doing it.

Too bad there's no enjoyment to be had from releasing a mod for a crowd that tells you to kill yourself for €2.

opal407 wrote: What about Falskaar, or Wyrmstooth? THose are both full-sized DLC mods that would go for a retail price of $20 at least. Remember TES IV Oblivion's Shivering Isles DLC? Falskaar and Wyrmstooth are similar. The only difference is that they aren't marketed by Bethesda. I would gladly pay for Falskaar. Sure, people would be angry that is was free and now it's payed, but what if another DLC sized mod was released? Something different? Would you pay for it then, since it never was free in the first place? Now, I agree that smaller mods should not be allowed to be put behind a paywall. And by small I mean texture mods and reskins, only because those are some of the tiniest mods that are out there. This isn't Minecraft on the Xbox people. Don't charge for skins. It's not cool. They don't change the game at all, and unless they change every single weapon in the game, I don't think it's worth money. Maybe there are some fun little mods out there (exploding chickens for example) that would be $1. Eh, it's the laugh factor. But yea...my opinion, by the way.

"Too bad there's no enjoyment to be had from releasing a mod for a crowd that tells you to kill yourself for €2."

Welcome to the internet.

[blackasm]

In response to post #24871504.

darkslayer666 wrote: Dark0ne:

Forgive my ignorance on this topic but; Why doesn't Nexus help the modders more?

As it stands endorsements don't really do anything, other than boost ego. I'd like some Nexus revenue to go to modders... 1000 endorsements for $100?

I don't know, like I said, how much does Nexus generate income, but with it's size I'd wager quite a lot since there's a big traffic here. I mean you got the dough for managers but not for your $$$ generators? Priorities man.

Perhaps increase ad's on Nexus to support modders? People will also be more inclined to endorse.

I personally think Nexus doesn't take care of their modders much at all, and I don't agree with some of your choices. I know Nexus is a business and it's survival is your priority but no modders = no Nexus.

Relying on donations solely while taking 100% of revenue is not going to last forever as you've seen from Steam. And you also asked the modders to put nexus as a provider(which is about 5% of revenue) I mean... I bet they scratched their heads asking when did Nexus give them 5%.

I can write more, but as I've said, I'm not much knowledgeable on this subject and would like the communities help on this. I feel like Nexus isn't much better in my eyes.

If my post is offensive so be it.. good bye, but I feel like too many people aren't questioning this as well.

Very well put, as it stands the nexus gets money you could say directly from the effort of modders, as well as you tube mod reviewers, bethesda really only gets hype/publicity through modders. Typically mod authors that generate revenue from their own site would lose out being part of the nexus. I have said it a number of times earlier, but it is a classic case of talented people undervaluing themselves.

[groupthinker1984]

In response to post #24871504. #24871889 is also a reply to the same post.

darkslayer666 wrote: Dark0ne:

Forgive my ignorance on this topic but; Why doesn't Nexus help the modders more?

As it stands endorsements don't really do anything, other than boost ego. I'd like some Nexus revenue to go to modders... 1000 endorsements for $100?

I don't know, like I said, how much does Nexus generate income, but with it's size I'd wager quite a lot since there's a big traffic here. I mean you got the dough for managers but not for your $$$ generators? Priorities man.

Perhaps increase ad's on Nexus to support modders? People will also be more inclined to endorse.

I personally think Nexus doesn't take care of their modders much at all, and I don't agree with some of your choices. I know Nexus is a business and it's survival is your priority but no modders = no Nexus.

Relying on donations solely while taking 100% of revenue is not going to last forever as you've seen from Steam. And you also asked the modders to put nexus as a provider(which is about 5% of revenue) I mean... I bet they scratched their heads asking when did Nexus give them 5%.

I can write more, but as I've said, I'm not much knowledgeable on this subject and would like the communities help on this. I feel like Nexus isn't much better in my eyes.

If my post is offensive so be it.. good bye, but I feel like too many people aren't questioning this as well.

blackasm wrote: Very well put, as it stands the nexus gets money you could say directly from the effort of modders, as well as you tube mod reviewers, bethesda really only gets hype/publicity through modders. Typically mod authors that generate revenue from their own site would lose out being part of the nexus. I have said it a number of times earlier, but it is a classic case of talented people undervaluing themselves.

We aren't questioning it because we know the service being provided here. Free hosting of a vast repository of mods for a growing number of games alongside a free client/mod manager that is regularly updated.

You don't have to pay to host and you don't have to pay to download. The people who are paying do so to support nexusmods, not the modders. If we want our money to go to the modders, we will donate to them.

Please don't speak for us when you aren't even one of us.

[Lamproly]

I agree with the Donation Button being not apparent enough. There is a reminder for endorsments, which is nice, I'd love to have this for donation as well (or did I overlook it?).

I'd like to donate more often, even if just a little bit (because of studying with no income), but often simply forget it.

Also I did not know that modders should not "beg for money" in the description because I've seen this a couple of times and it always was a huge turn-off. But it's maybe a hint that indeed the Nexus should make the donation function more convenient and apparent, which - I'm glad to hear - you plan to do.

Thank you for the links to the interviews! It's a relief to hear such awesome people like you speak this reasonable and picture how probably a big part of this community feels about the topic.

[Hevymettle]

In response to post #24871504. #24871889, #24872029 are all replies on the same post.

darkslayer666 wrote: Dark0ne:

Forgive my ignorance on this topic but; Why doesn't Nexus help the modders more?

As it stands endorsements don't really do anything, other than boost ego. I'd like some Nexus revenue to go to modders... 1000 endorsements for $100?

I don't know, like I said, how much does Nexus generate income, but with it's size I'd wager quite a lot since there's a big traffic here. I mean you got the dough for managers but not for your $$$ generators? Priorities man.

Perhaps increase ad's on Nexus to support modders? People will also be more inclined to endorse.

I personally think Nexus doesn't take care of their modders much at all, and I don't agree with some of your choices. I know Nexus is a business and it's survival is your priority but no modders = no Nexus.

Relying on donations solely while taking 100% of revenue is not going to last forever as you've seen from Steam. And you also asked the modders to put nexus as a provider(which is about 5% of revenue) I mean... I bet they scratched their heads asking when did Nexus give them 5%.

I can write more, but as I've said, I'm not much knowledgeable on this subject and would like the communities help on this. I feel like Nexus isn't much better in my eyes.

If my post is offensive so be it.. good bye, but I feel like too many people aren't questioning this as well.

blackasm wrote: Very well put, as it stands the nexus gets money you could say directly from the effort of modders, as well as you tube mod reviewers, bethesda really only gets hype/publicity through modders. Typically mod authors that generate revenue from their own site would lose out being part of the nexus. I have said it a number of times earlier, but it is a classic case of talented people undervaluing themselves.

groupthinker1984 wrote: We aren't questioning it because we know the service being provided here. Free hosting of a vast repository of mods for a growing number of games alongside a free client/mod manager that is regularly updated.

You don't have to pay to host and you don't have to pay to download. The people who are paying do so to support nexusmods, not the modders. If we want our money to go to the modders, we will donate to them.

Please don't speak for us when you aren't even one of us.

You seem pretty opinionated despite announcing yourself that you had much ignorance on the topic. First and foremost I think it is important that you know that Valve offered this site 5% of their profit if Nexus was listed by the modder as being an aid to them. It was 100% voluntary of of the modder and initiated by Valve, so blaming this site or Dark0ne makes no sense at all.

Second, this site was founded on being a hub for modders to do what they like and to have it reach out to an audience. No one was forced to do it and they were even supplied with a program that makes it infinitely easier for people to mod their games. Attacking him as "not caring" about modders or taking advantage of them for not paying is pretty ludicrous. He is paying out the butt just to run this site. Have you even looked at the figures it takes to keep this thing going?

Your initial idea was pretty good but it sounds better when you leave out every possible thing that he would have to take into consideration. How easily would the system be abused? (people would find a way to get fake endorsements in the first week, I guarantee it). What happens if the modders start making too much money and the site is losing money offering it to them? Everything here runs the way it was created for and the people that utilize the site have done so for a reason.

It isn't a bad idea but you shouldn't over simplify it and then attack someone when you have questionable knowledge on the topic at best. That is especially distasteful when you are responding to a post that he is making about making changes to help modders make money.

[daedriccat]

In response to post #24861964.

Boerner wrote: I really think that the rude people who went after individual modders and regard them as disposable are a very small, vocal minority. It's sad they managed to cast such a bad light on the modding community. Based on the overall number of downloads for these mods, the number of these people is laughably small. I'm just sad that they managed to drive of all these talented people with their hateful words while the ones quietly supporting modders kept quiet as usual.

This

I saw very little of the rancor.

the one thing I saw very frequently was "I agree that modders should be able to get some compensation.... etc." This was the most frequent statement from those who opposed the paid mods, and very reasonable. I don't think I've seen anyone say that modders should never get money.

This should not be overlooked