DAO and Drakensang

[MagdalenaDwojniak]

Hello,

 

forgive me if there was a thread like this before. My search did not return anything relevant, but you can always miss something out. To those who ply both DAO and Drakensang, don't you think they share quite a lot of similarities? Especially when locations are concerned. Both games have a one-trip village (respectively Lothering and Avestrue), dwarven cities with extremely similar questlines (Orzammar and Murolosh), abandoned underground civilisations (thaigs in DAO, the Deeps of Gruldur in Drakensang), dragon cultists, corrupted dragons (I guess the Archdemon qualifies like one), forsaken examples of long-gone elven peak civilisations (Arlathan in DAO, Bosparan in Drakensang) conveniently related to desolate outposts of modern elves (the Brecilian Forest and the Bosparian Forest, respectively)... When the whole deal with Andraste is quite like the story of Rondra and the rivalry between Orlais and Ferelden mirrors this between Nadoret and Ferdok (on a smaller scale as they are just cities of the same county, Kosch).

 

What incenses me is that many popular sources of gaming information unjustly dub Drakensang "a poor man's Dragon Age". In my humble opinion, it is incredibly unfair. So, here my main question comes. Drakensang predates DAO and is based on the even older, critically-acclaimed tabletop RPG. Drakensang was published in 2008. DAO - one year later. Thus one cannot assume the former was "overly inspired" by the latter. Don't you think DAO is partially a spiritual follower of Drakensang, at least as far as locations and the importance of talking are concerned? It really hurts to see people comparing apples to oranges, so I thought I could ask for your opinion on the matter.

[willjk57]

I absolutely loved Dark Eye. It has better/more atmospheric graphics, but not so much interactivity with your companions than DAO, and it is a very short game. I did DSA like 3 or 4 years ago and only recently playing DAO, and I did wonder the likeness. I say I like DAO more, tho.

[Thandal]

No idea about the development back-story of Drakensang, but there's tons of evidence of the development of Thedas that pre-dates either game's release. David Gaider outlined the major story arc over two years before publication, and the major points of similarity you've identified were fixed long before anyone from BioWare had even heard of anything the folk over at Radon Labs were doing. And vice versa, I presume.

 

But your point that people mistakenly think that either of the two games influenced the other is probably valid. As for the two major similarities, (a vanished "high-elven" culture and an underground dwarven one) blame Tolkien! :tongue:

[MagdalenaDwojniak]

Wow, the thread is one day old and it has already gathered very interesting responses, wonderful!

 

I absolutely agree with you two. Locations have similar backstory concepts if they can be called that, but this by no means indicates either developer team had a mole in the other one. It would be like saying every Mayan pyramid-like edifice was nicked from the Egyptians ;).

 

I think the two games are different in the approach to how their stories unveil. In DAO, the atmosphere is very dark and perhaps this puts so much emphasis on relationships between characters (I adore this aspect of DAO). In Drakensang, you are mainly occupied with avenging Ardo and discovering the solution to the toothy problem (also known as dragons waging wars between one another), so while the dialogues indicate your companions grow very fond of you, there is not much in the way of conflicting interests (or, on the other hand, any romantic relationships brewing). Both games are a class on their own. Trying to choose one over the other is like comparing apples to oranges just because they're fruits. Anyway, I believe these have a lot of influences in literature - as Thandal pointed out, Tolkien, but also much older things (after all, Tolkien was a scholar and conscientiously employed many mythologies to do his bidding). That only backs the theory both games have impressive writers. Those aren't typical "savin' da worl'" stories (though, of course, they do play with cliches to an extent - especially Drakensang, which is all about "when we were young and the world was full of magic").

 

And, slightly off-topic, regarding Drakensang in its primary (tabletop) iteration: just who doesn't love the good old robe-cleaning spell? :) It was worth every point you had to pay for it if you ask me!

[rosvitacousland]

I don't know how long ago David Gaider started to think about Dragon Age Origins. However Drakensang is based on and belongs to the world of DSA and the Nordland-Trilogie "Schicksalsklinge", "Sternenschweif" and "Schatten über Riva", being published as early as between 1992 and 1996!

 

Then I cannot see any substantial element in Drakensang which is not already existing in the elder DSA games. For this reason it seems very unlikely for Drakensang to take up some ideas of DAO.

 

In addition there is a limited amount of typical sorts of fairy tales or fantasy pseudo-medieval components. Even Tolkien - being linguist - borrowed many motifs of the Edda, an old germanic poetry, which contained the connection of dwarfes and stone for example.

 

I like the Nordland-Trilogie very much, particulary "Schatten über Riva" and its wonderful music. Unfortunally in my estimation especially Drakensang hasn't got the charme of the elder games of DSA. There had been some nice ideas, for example hides only for people who learned how to flay.

 

By the way I myself never would have hiten on the idea to compare DAO with Drakensang or any other RPG, because in my opinion DAO is just unique.

 

I've played lots of RPGs - feeling a kind of veteran... but I don't know any other game with romance in it. Baldur's gate had some basic approaches but more for the other party members among themselves.

 

After all even DAO isn't perfect. For example Bryce Cousland said something like 'war is no coffee party'. In a medieval world there isn't any coffee! Alltogether the game is not so continental - which would be better for any medieval frame.

[willjk57]

Maybe more comparing grapfruits and oranges as they both are of the citrus family!

 

Perhaps DAO replaced the orc hordes with the darkspawn?

 

I'll always have fond memories of crazy Gladys and pushy Rhulana, and wish there had been more involvement, and not meaning romantic, either.

 

One thing I don't miss in DAO is 'spell failed'.

[MagdalenaDwojniak]

Totally agreed to all what's been said!

 

It is really unjustified and rather unfair that some people, often holding prominent positions among the staff of gaming sites, thus influential, treat Drakensang in a patronising way. You just cannot compare it to DAO - both are marvellous games, but each it its own right, untranslatable into the labels the other one holds. There are always bound to be similarities - after all, the human mind functions the same, whether you are sitting in a cave or clicking on your PC. You fear snakes, crocodiles and birds of prey, which is twisted into a fearsome dragon in result.

 

Rosvitacousland - maybe Bryce knew there are coffee bushes in Seheron? It is a tropical island, after all. It could be. Considering the relative proximity between the countries, Antiva and, to an extent, Rivain, could trade with some inhabitants.

 

I still believe even the Emperor or the Divine do not get to sip a cup :wink: - too costly even for them, taking into account the distance from the countries which could possibly trade for coffee.

 

Willjk57 - yes, they are lovely. Gwen's comment - "Giant marsh crabs can be quite a delicacy when cooked properly" - always knocks me off my chair :smile:. I think Nasreddin also had a remark once, when we were battling some boars: "Do you think we could eat them afterwards?". DAO often uses personal drama, Drakensang prefers witty irony and teasing around.

 

As far as romances in RPGs are concerned, it is mainly a BioWare thing. Rather rare in tabletops as well, if I may add. It is because you need a group to be really close with each other, to know where to stop too.

I remember a session with just acquintances and a single friend of mine - said guy and I made siblings as PCs, but it was unbearable from the start as the rest of the group kept making idiotic remarks to "Game of Thrones", even though we made it clear what the PCs were like (in other words, not GoT at all). We asked them to stop, but they didn't. It was very childlish and climate-ruining.

 

The first time I got a chance to do it, my mage had their silly faces scorched. It felt good.

 

Edited May 8, 2015 by MagdalenaDwojniak

[rosvitacousland]

Concerning the coffee there are some stimulating drinks in many fantasy universes. Do you know the The Dragonriders Of Pern (Anne McCaffrey) - by the way great fantasy - or Darkover by Marion Zimmer Bradley (the one with The Mists Of Avalon)? Both worlds have got an equivalent to coffee.

 

But I haven't seen any coffey nor anything comparable in Ferelden. I've read The Stolen Throne and The Calling and even The Masked Empire, which plays in Orlais. I can't remember any coffee. However it would be a good idea to have something like coffee in Ferelden.

 

But besides that there are lots of expressions in game just being anachronistic. It's a balancing act, because using some modern phrases makes the game more funny and modern, of course, but on the other hand that is affecting the medivial atmosphere. Perhaps the european way would be more authentic and puristic. Finally it's a matter of taste.

[willjk57]

Jost, Gladys and Rhulana, my favorite party for Dark Eyehttp://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/h475/andorian22/00M59_zpsyndmapdp.jpg

[MagdalenaDwojniak]

Ah, the good old days with Rhulana doubting Jost's ability to survive :D. Wonderful. I admit I dropped Gladys as soon as Gwendala joined, but still, the little squirrel was useful at her time. The banter with Dranor (I left the two with each other all the time) was pretty hilarious.