Which Faction is Best?

[pob255]

Here's one to try, drop a pile of mini-nukes at his feet then set them off by shooting them from a distance ;)

 

Nuke 'em till they glow, then shoot them in the dark. - Duke Nukem

[mdingman]

alright, sounds good. maybe i shud go into "god mode" and shoot a mini nuke @ him wen he's 2 feet away btw pob255, is ur vote still 4 boomers? u shud change it 2 legion at least so they beat those dumba** people who voted 4 the followers

 

BUT SERIOUSLY PEOPLE? WHO THE F*** VOTED FOR NCR!? did i not say to read the posts b4 voting?! seriously?! everyone here agrees that the NCR sucks!!!

Also, whoever voted for the followers, reference my post on page 2 i think. i shud have never put the followers on that poll, they are the weakest faction there is!!!

Edited January 12, 2011 by mdingman

[Ryanx69x]

Very true thank you for actually looking that stuff up. It's good to know that there's someone else who does their research out there. I should have put the question of this topic more clearly. Let's assume that the player assists the faction of his or her choice. then the question is, after they conquer the wasteland, which one would be the best all-around. And, if you support a minor faction, explain why that faction would do better and explain how they would do it. From now on if these debates go off from this, i will reference this post.

 

No, that was definitely not the question you posed at the beginning of this thread. If you take into account that they have already conquered the wasteland, than all the arguments you made against the Followers and the Boomers about not being able to take over the wasteland due to their small numbers are invalid. If they supposedly already conquered the wasteland, then their ability to do it wouldn't matter at all.

 

First of all I have to bring up your point of the NCR being corrupt. It has usually been the more corrupt parties that have come out on top as it is inevitably one of the only ways to move yourself forward. Its just that the NCR does it more secretly. Also, the NCR being corrupt doesn't really matter as the Legion is just as corrupt, if not even more corrupt, than the NCR. Half of their nation is built upon lies of tribes joining them to fight with them, and being converted to slaves when the Legion no longer needs them, as evidenced by the Great Kahn quest. And I don't really get how the game makes the NCR out to be too good. It seemed like 90% of the people outside of the NCR were constantly insulting the NCR and wanting them to leave, it's just that they chose the NCR over the Legion.

 

Legion also seems to be very arrogant, and suffers some hubris, which has been the downfall of many civilizations due to them getting to confident. I don't think it would be their downfall at the time of Fallout NV, because they seem to be patient and taking their time enough with the NCR, but later down the line they would get to brutal, and end up poking at a group that they shouldn't have without analyzing them first.

 

But my main problem with the Legion is that they shun technology and knowledge. Yes, using minimal technology would create a healthier, potentially more peaceful society, but that would only work in a world with no technology, not the fallout universe. There's too much pre-war technology, and new technology being developed at the time of fallout that someone will get, or has already got their hands on. And for the Legion to be considered any real threat to other empires, they need to throw away the bulls*** shun everything that is unknown theory, and start advancing themselves. This is clearly evident when Caesar asks you to destroy everything that is underneath the Weather building that is in the back of the fort, instead of at least finding out what exists beneath it. This ignorant way of thinking is very similar to how we were in the early middle ages, not the Roman times interestingly, and during those times famine and poverty occured.

 

To be honest, it would be really hard to tell which side would win as there are too many factors, but like another person said, dictatorships historically haven't worked well. They work great if the leader is smart and knows what he's doing, but down the line, there will ALWAYS be someone who will be incompetent at running the empire, unless they convert to another form of government. Besides, realistically when you pit the NCR's way of fighting against the Legion, the NCR would win. Sorry, but guns always win against brute force. Sure, the Legion uses guns too, but they focus mostly on hand to hand and melee combat, which would be good for guerrilla tactics, but not charging in head on. I wish the Legion would win, because their society looks great on paper, but they would only be a good base for a society, and they would need to change to be successful

[Ryanx69x]

I'm also surprised the Enclave wasn't on here. I know they weren't in NV, and they obviously wouldn't win against the other factions, mostly because they are complete f***ing morons for only accepting "pure humans", but they still at least deserve a mention.

[pob255]

The Followers are a better faction than the powder gangers or fiends who both have to hope neather the NCR or Legion wins, neather group has long term goals or plans and both will suffer at the hand of ether the NCR or Legion if one or other wins

 

The followers again are not a physically powerful or strong faction, that doesn't mean they are bad, they don't care who rules their goal is to promote beneficial and safe technology and knowledge, secure and hide dangerous tech & knowledge and generally help mankind improve.

They are very similar to the BoS in general reguard, although the BoS is focused in gathering and keeping safe dangerous tech & knowledge until mankind is again ready for it.

[Nihilisaurus]

BUT SERIOUSLY PEOPLE? WHO THE F*** VOTED FOR NCR!? did i not say to read the posts b4 voting?! seriously?! everyone here agrees that the NCR sucks!!!

Also, whoever voted for the followers, reference my post on page 2 i think. i shud have never put the followers on that poll, they are the weakest faction there is!!!

You think only of combat. As Sun Tzu taught, even warfare is much more than just combat. And governance? Governance is a whole different kettle of fish.

 

The Legion is a facade. Like a wave, it will remain stable only so long as it can continue to roll over everything else. Once it reaches the shore, it'll collapse. Caesar may have put in more thought than most despots, but his ideas still don't work. The Legion follows Caesar because he brings them victory and strength. Once he loses (or dies) the whole thing will crumple back into bitter, divided tribes. If you don't believe me look at Europe after the Romans. They call it the dark ages for a reason...

 

The NCR, the NCR on the other hand is just plain mediocre. It plods along, getting by without being too brilliant at anything it tries. It does have one big advantage over the legion: it survived its founder. President Tandi has passed on, the New California Republic has not. They may not be incorruptible, infallible, invincible and impartial but at least there's a bit. I'm not saying it's perfect, and I'm not saying there'll never be anything better, but the NCR (so far as they go in Fallout) is a proven nation. They've shown they can at least survive in the wastes, and do a little expanding. For a nation you write off, even Caesar admits the NCR is his legion's first proper adversary.

[mdingman]

@ post 23 and 24, OF COURSE THAT WASN'T THE ORIGINAL QUESTION!!!! THATS WHY I POSTED THAT IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!! and, the 4 major factions don't have to worry about their ability to conquer the wasteland, because they do if the player helps them. However, the minor factions DO have to have some way to take over, that's why i made those arguments about the Boomers and such. additionally, i have addressed all of the statements you have made, except the one about the effectiveness of their tactics, which sure as heck work for me. Before anybody makes any arguments about the legion, read my earlier posts and FalloutWiki, i'm tired of repeating myself.

 

The enclave, after the events of fallout 2 and fallout 3, no longer has any viability as a faction. that's why they weren't in the poll.

[mdingman]

@ post 25, it's true that the followers do all of that, but they shouldn't even be considered because what if a faction attacks them? they have no way of defending themselves. they also have NO WAY POSSIBLE of gaining control unless EVERYONE ELSE, from Caesar to the coyotes, has died or left. this is the last time i'm going to say that i'm sick of having to repeat myself.

[mdingman]

@ post 26, i know that warfare is much more than combat, but Sun Tzu says that the most important thing in war is spies, and with that the Legion wins hands down. Their spies are Vulpes Inculta and the frumentarii. as far as legion stability goes...READ MY POSTS!!!! I ADRESSED THAT!!!! sorry i took that out on you i'm just extremely tired of wasting time repeating myself. As for the dark ages, that wasn't tribes splitting up AT ALL. It was barbarians from the east coming in and claiming chunks of the empire for themselves. The Legion isn't a loose collection of tribes. the way Caesar treats those he conquers makes them lose all previous alleigences and identities and makes them 100% legion. you don't hear "Ave-True to Papa Khan", for example.(i kno that the Khans haven't been absorbed yet. i'm just using them for the sake of example)

 

Sure the NCR can survive, but it hasn't faced off against another major faction yet. Sure, it fought the BoS, but that wasn't exactly a war, it was more of a collection of skirmishes among a tense relationship. the BoS's HQ is still in California. So of course Caesar sees the NCR as his main enemy! they are the largest force standing between him and total victory.

 

What's the problem with the Legion?! Why would they not be the best option!? if anybody can give me a valid argument that hasn't already been adressed and i can't answer, then i will submit. But nothing has been put forward so far.

[pob255]

Ok let take this apart,

but they shouldn't even be considered because what if a faction attacks them? they have no way of defending themselves.

what if a faction attacks them?

They will lose a branch, but that's all, the followers don't have a centralised power base or a single region of control, they are split up and scattered in small groups over many territories and places within different factions areas, remember that Caesar himself was a follower and sent out as part of a group into the tribal desert of the east.

Lets face it the main reason he had the other members of that branch killed was to prevent them from interfering with his plan.

And their diverse setup and pacifist outlook is their defence, all most all the other factions see them as not major threat and actually helpful so allow them to setup within their territories, so to defeat the followers you don't have to fight one faction but multiple factions who will object if you just entered their area and started killing people who are helping them and being of benefit to them.

They also have NO WAY POSSIBLE of gaining control unless EVERYONE ELSE, from Caesar to the coyotes, has died or left.

Again that's because they are not out to rule or conquer and have no desire to do so.

"Ideologically, the Followers' principles bear some resemblance to anarchism - above all else they support pacifism and co-operation. They oppose organisations and civilizations which seek to thwart these principles"

Yes they may be a bit of a bunch of hippies but their basic premis holds true and the wateland would be a far better place if everyone stopped trying to kill each other and conquer their neighbours.

 

The may not be militarily strong but again.

 

You didn't ask which faction was the strongest militarily.

 

You asked which is best. (without defining the the factors)

 

However as you seem to to have made up your mind that the legion is best and that anyone who disagrees with you is wrong I shall bid this topic adieu.

Edited January 13, 2011 by pob255