Which Faction is Best?

[mdingman]

@Frakle Exactly. Thank you for proving my point. What I've been trying to say this whole time is that the followers are not the best faction because they can't control the mojave, they're completely defenseless, and i would argue that they shouldn't even be considered a "faction" in the usual sense of the word. A faction can't be the best unless they have some sort of structure, longevity, etc. The Followers are basically a charity organization. I know that's overly simplistic but that's the root of it.

[Nihilisaurus]

But they don't need to control it. By giving medical care and knowledge to the locals they've made themselves invaluable to the local population, without them they'd be far worse off and these people know it, effectively without firing a shot and with no more than altruism and some books they've integrated themselves into the power structure. They don't have absolute control, but by the same token that means they don't bear responsibility. In the endings, if both the Khans and Followers leave vegas the two meet up in the north and the Khans found a mighty empire with the followers help. Now do you reckon such a power would go to war for the sake of the Followers of the apocalypse? I'd say so. Do they have to pay for the upkeep of its armies or manage the collection of its taxes? No. What they have is a force willing to defend them in exchange for what they would do anyway.

 

I'm not saying the followers can control Vegas or anything, but they aren't helpless little babies.

 

Also, choosing between Monarchy (Yes Man/House), more Monarchy (Legion) or Democracy -corrupt- (NCR) a quote from Churchill comes to mind "Democracy is the worst form of government, apart from all the other ones that have been tried." If the world had been ruled by monarchies I'm pretty damned sure they'd have unleashed nuclear weapons too, democracy in the NCR is broken the same way modern US democracy is broken: people with money hold too much sway. The Government doesn't exist to further the interests of the rich, it exists to further the interests of all citizens. It took humanity millennia to move from Monarchy to Democracy, with this imbalanced status quo in favour of the rich brought with us. I'm not saying it's perfect (anything but), however I am saying it's easier to fix the problems with democracy (or use it as a springboard to something better) than it is to solve the plethora of issues surrounding tyranny (to use the original Roman meaning of 'one man rule').

[mdingman]

What you said about how democracy is better is true, I'm just saying that NCR democracy is such a massive bureacracy and so corrupt that it cannot function effectively. Also, didn't a couple of the NCR's presidents rule for something like 70 years? That sounds like a monarchy to me. It's about as legitimate as the "Republic of Dave".(remember them?)

 

I'm saying that the Followers themselves are helpless little babies. But if the Khans form an empire wwith the Followers' help, that sounds like the Khans have been taking lessons from Caesar and have assimilated or at least are using the Followers for their own gain. And, in that case, it would be the Khans taking over New Vegas(they're a monarchy as well), which is plausible for the takeover, but I don't think they would really last in the long run. The Followers have no teeth, they have no military, so somebody else would have to act for them.

 

Also, your take on the United States REPUBLIC is incorrect. It is in fact the lower-middle and working(I hate that term by the way) classes that have far too much power. How else do you think a socialist president was elected? Why do you think that the liberals cater to illegal immigrants(emphasis on illegal)? Why do you think that the poor support Universal Healthcare, which, if you look at it, is doomed to push the country's debt beyond the point of no return? "Men are nearly always willing to believe what they wish."-Julius Caesar. Obama tells the poor that he's going to give them MORE free stuff, and it's not going to cost them anything. He tells them he's going to tax the rich to death,(who, according to the liberals, are inherently evil because it's not possible to become rich without exploiting the poor, defenseless, proletariat), and it's going to solve all their problems. He tells them this, and he gets elected.(and look where it's gotten us. great job liberals! Note the sarcasm).

 

Why should we cater to the rich? The top 2% pay 95% of the taxes, paying for all the poor's medicare and food stamps while they sit at home and do nothing and live off of honest taxpayers.(not all poor people, just 44,981,890 of them as of 7:44 this morning.) The rich are the ones that start companies and create jobs. By taxing them, you destroy the economy. I could go on and on about this, but it's geting off topic.

 

Bottom line, an autocratic government with a strong leader is the best government, the problem has always been with succession. The way Caesar raises his successors, however, ensures that his goals and his leadership carries on after his death. Nobody can tell what will happen after this, but at least for the near to medium future, the Legion will stay strong leadership-wise. And, is a democracy/republic any better succession-wise? You just need to show the masses a bright-and-shiny object and they will follow you, like Obama did. A democracy/republic can be just as worse off succession wise, especially a democracy like NCR, which doesn't have term limits.

[Bleedingnova]

I've played as every faction and possible ending except the legion ones. And I still like Yes man the best. Edited June 9, 2011 by Bleedingnova

[mdingman]

Ok, but what about afterwards? How can Yes-Man control the Mojave, take out or assimilate the minor factions, stand up to the Legion/NCR return that is sure to come, etc. Also, you might want to try the Legion ending so you can compare all of them before passing judgement.

[jerriecan]

I've played through all the endings, and my personal favorite is Independent Vegas, followed by allying with the NCR. Not a fan of House's vision of order, and the Legion leaves me cold with it's stance on women and slavery. (But it was a lot of fun blasting the NCR prez with an orbital laser strike. :) ) The NCR isn't evil but just inept, saddled with bureaucracy. At least with Independent Vegas and Yes Man we're working for ourselves and our own interests (even if I don't trust Yes Man as far as I could throw him at the end.)

 

But House is too much of a dictator for me, especially with the 'making the trains run on time' quip. The old world died for a reason, House - and you're it. Maybe not you personally, not entirely, but your mindset shared among the pre-War powers made the Great War inevitable.

 

And Caesar... you're a throwback to the era you emulate. Utterly barbaric, even though your methods are efficient. But nobody likes living under your rule. You can't go into the future by resurrecting the past.

 

It would have been nice to get the various factions to ally with me to strengthen independent Vegas - the Khans would have made a formidable army, the Boomers could have provided the heavy weapons, and the Fiends and other gangs could have made nice cannon fodder while they lasted. We could have even offered the Powder Gangers asylum in exchange for service.

[badbeans]

NCR have the screw ups but who doesn't, the US and China and GERMANY have their screw ups, some of the HUGE screw ups. The way you see it is like thinking WW2 had a good side.

[SHOCKW4VE]

Personally, I think that the best ending is the Independent New Vegas - not Yes Man - ending because, and I think this has been overlooked an awful lot in this thread, it is the PEOPLE's choice. The people of New Vegas could decide their fate like a true democracy, electing a leader THEY want. They could amalgamate useful factions and give them a good place in an honest society e.g. the Followers could be recruited as a kind of health service (the NHS as I hail from Britain)and a better society could be built that would last for many years. However, with this most people are missing the point regarding longevity. Every kind of government is destined to fail at some point, and the different needs of different people require different governments. Yes democracy is corrupt, but communism is not good for growth and dictatorship is unfair on all bar one. The people of New Vegas could work together to achieve a solution that works for THEM.

 

It must be remembered that after the Battle of Hoover Dam 2, their would be people and resources left by the defeated NCR and Legion for use by the new controlling faction. The Mojave-based citizens of the NCR and the slaves of the Legion would be offered a place in New Vegas. The monies of the destroyed faction could be put into improving facilities and renovating areas such as Outer New Vegas, therefore attracting new residents.

 

Am now thinking about a mod concerning this topic where the player would be able to create their own post-battle society. No idea how it could be done though

[marharth]

Yesman would not control anything without the player.

 

Benny gets captured by the legion, without the player to stop him he would get captured anyways.

 

Without the players interference, its likely that the NCR and legion would come close to completely killing each other off. The war would drastically weaken both sides.

 

Also the fiends would not lose much power, and they would take over then NCR's main base camp.

 

The NCR would pretty much be wiped out without the player.

 

House would only have his police bots and nothing else, he would just keep control of the strip.

 

The kings would likely keep control of freeside, and the followers would be fairly safe.

 

The brotherhood would get scout reports of the war, and they would know it would be much safer.

 

 

In short: The minor factions will be much stronger without the players interference, and the big factions will be close to wiped out.

[mdingman]

The way you see it is like thinking WW2 had a good side.

 

If you think WWII didn't have a good side, you obviously know nothing about history.

 

SHOCKW4VE, an independent vegas can't defend itself by itself. Without yes man/house, there is no robot army. There is already enough division between people in new vegas. They all won't assimilate under one banner. The BoS will fight anyone, the Families won't join together, etc. New Vegas has no resources. Any recources they would obtain after the 2nd battle of Hoover Dam would be off of the bodies of dead soldiers. As for the people of NCR and the Legion coming to new vegas, why would they do that? Just because they get kicked out of the Mojave doesn't mean their faction is dead. Far from it, both the NCR and the Legion would probably return. They would retreat to their homelands and regroup. New Vegas is in it's homeland already. Honestly, if you think that the PEOPLE of New Vegas could survive a combined Legion/NCR onslaught along with the in-fighting that's sure to occur? They don't have the robot army(which couldn't survive in that situation anyways).

 

@Marharth, we are taking the player out of the equation. Things like Kimball's assassination, the Boomers getting their B-29, Caesar's cancer would've been cured, etc. because the faction/person had plans to accomplish their goals in those instances. The NCR would be in a horrible state due to the player not being present to help them, etc.