Drugs - What do you think is acceptable, where is the line?

[marharth]

Hold on what?

 

 

Who said weed makes you a under achiever? There is no long term proof for weed brain damage that I know of, that doesn't make sense to say that based on short term effects.

If someone showed up to a job interview stoned like you claimed, they would have been arrested...

 

 

nor do they care that the government is effectively paying for their weed by giving them their dole money.

 

This is for another debate, BUT SERIOUSLY?

 

 

I think your misinformed about the long term effects of weed, it won't make you a under achiever, the main drug that does that is alcohol. A lot of drunks get unemployed, a larger number of drunks get unemployed then stoners.

 

If its ruining peoples lives, that's their choice. We could spend tax dollars on real education programs and not just "DRUGZ R BAD DO NOT DO THEM OR COPS NO LEIK U" kind of thing.

 

I speak of what I see with my own eyes. I SEE these kids every day, and what most of them have in common is a long term use of weed, like they might be eighteen years old and been smoking it regularly for six years. It makes them chilled to the point of comatose with habitual use and they exhibit couldn't care less attitude to both school work, hence emerge barely able to read and write, AND getting a job. Why bother, they think, when they are getting sixty quid a week dole money which feeds their habit (hence the taxpayer/government IS paying for it) and indulgent parents whom they live with who let them. They are demotivated and cannot, frankly, get off their butts to do anything. Sorry, but that is under achieving in anybody's book. The study by Professor Iverson of Oxford University, on whom I base my views, specifically stated that whilst certain parts of the argument as to the harmful effects of cannabis were moot, eg the chicken and egg situation of did the psychosis come before or after the weed, what had shown very clearly from his research was that long term usersof weed were likely to underachieve and have lower incomes. Seriously, I have had one of the little loves actually say to me outright "Why the *&£@ should I get a job when I can get my dole money and then go and smoke and go on my XBox all day?"

 

Oh, and

(1) I am not interviewing these kids for a job, I am trying to make a training plan for them which includes finding out their barriers to employment. Being off your face most of the time counts there. I have to get them over that and make them presentable to an employer.

(2) turning up stoned for a job interview is not actually an arrestable offence in the UK, you just wouldn't get the job, which in some cases is precisely why they would do it. It's only if you were daft enough to actually light a spliff in the interview, or have your stash fall out of your pocket in front of the interviewer, that would make you liable for arrest for possession.

(3) I have no authority to make them turn out their pockets to see if they have any weed on them, although I have asked them to when the smell is pretty obvious.

 

And yes, I do have a fair few alcoholics to deal with as well. But there IS a difference - alcohol is legal and even many of the alcoholics will acknowledge that it is harmful (whether or not they care about that is another matter), whereas in the case of weed here are people trying to say, whilst making a case for legalization, that weed is pretty well innocuous and causes no long term damage. It isn't and it does. This is why I say, in the argument for legalizing drugs, we need to carefully consider the harm and the costs alongside the benefits.

You are acting like the people who get government money can use it to support themselves for years without issue, and buy a xbox, and buy weed all the time.

That is not true, look into that.

 

I think your looking at it the wrong way. Its not weed making them under achieve, they are under achievers who smoke weed.

[ginnyfizz]

No, I do not need to look into that, as I have said before, I meet these guys every day and it certainly IS true. I am sure you will have read about our famously generous welfare benefits system here in the UK. I have explained HOW they do it - they live with indulgent parents who let them carry on doing little else but smoke weed and play on their XBox360. These kids are just so fogged up with dope they couldn't care less. That isn't just my opinion. Just take a look at this article, or rather the summary linked since you have to sign up and pay to read the full thing

 

Cannabis and educational achievement

 

I am not talking about casual users of weed, I am talking about the kind of long term users that these scientists mentioned.

[marharth]

No, I do not need to look into that, as I have said before, I meet these guys every day and it certainly IS true. I am sure you will have read about our famously generous welfare benefits system here in the UK. I have explained HOW they do it - they live with indulgent parents who let them carry on doing little else but smoke weed and play on their XBox360. These kids are just so fogged up with dope they couldn't care less. That isn't just my opinion. Just take a look at this article, or rather the summary linked since you have to sign up and pay to read the full thing

 

Cannabis and educational achievement

 

I am not talking about casual users of weed, I am talking about the kind of long term users that these scientists mentioned.

I would need to know who the people were before the study, if they were already living in poor areas, or were already doing bad then the study doesn't matter.

 

I am not sure how your welfare system is in the UK, but I am pretty sure the money that is given has to be spend on certain things, and if there is missing money it will get looked into.

[ginnyfizz]

The study was made of a large control group of over 1200 over a number of years, and I fail to see why whether or not they were living in poor areas should override the results of the study. I, after all come from the same poor former mining area that my clientele do, and I have a university degree. I know many high achievers who had a difficult start in life - some of the highest academic achievers that we have had in the UK have come originally from refugee groups.

 

You don't know how the welfare system works in the UK. This is how. You sign on as unemployed every two weeks at the local Job Centre and declare that you are looking for work (without having to offer any real proof). The clerk pushes a button and two or three days later the money is transferred into your bank account, if you are claiming for your rent that will be paid direct to your landlord as well. But most of my dope smokers will be living rent free with parents. Therefore, you can spend the money on whatever you like.

[marharth]

I don't see how the study would effect them, is there any chemicals that cause long term harm?

[Nadimos]

I am not smoking or drinking anymore. I let that aside after i got 20+ or something. But that weed is banned is indeed hillarious. Cigarettes are like heavy drugs and mc d is a drug, too. Legitimized bulls* in your brain. There is lots of it. Edited January 19, 2011 by Nadimos

[ginnyfizz]

I don't see how the study would effect them, is there any chemicals that cause long term harm?

 

I'm not quite sure I follow your meaning now. The study is referring to long term use of cannabis, which I am also referring to, I am not referring to occasional use as messing up your prospects. Professor Iverson refers to that study that I linked, and to others, to propose the view, of which I have seen much evidence with my own eyes, that long term, heavy users of cannabis often under achieve and earn less. Here is an interesting summary

 

Cannabis and mental health

 

By the Royal College Of Psychiatrists. It mentions the New Zealand study and the fact that "It found that cannabis use in adolescence was linked to poor school performance, but that there was no direct connection between the two. It looked as though it was simply because cannabis use encouraged a way of life that didn't help with schoolwork." I can certainly see that - these heavy users hang around with the wrong crowd, they bunk off to go and get their hit, they keep bunking off, they then find themselves without qualifications and hope of any decent work. Whether it is the cannabis per se or the social scene around heavy use, the cannabis scene one way or another is ruining their lives.

 

I have not dwelt so much on the chemical effects of cannabis, because as that article summarizes it, and as I have said before, the issue of cannabis and psychosis is a chicken and egg one.

 

Whatever way you look at it, cannabis is not harmless.

[marharth]

I don't see how the study would effect them, is there any chemicals that cause long term harm?

 

I'm not quite sure I follow your meaning now. The study is referring to long term use of cannabis, which I am also referring to, I am not referring to occasional use as messing up your prospects. Professor Iverson refers to that study that I linked, and to others, to propose the view, of which I have seen much evidence with my own eyes, that long term, heavy users of cannabis often under achieve and earn less. Here is an interesting summary

 

Cannabis and mental health

 

By the Royal College Of Psychiatrists. It mentions the New Zealand study and the fact that "It found that cannabis use in adolescence was linked to poor school performance, but that there was no direct connection between the two. It looked as though it was simply because cannabis use encouraged a way of life that didn't help with schoolwork." I can certainly see that - these heavy users hang around with the wrong crowd, they bunk off to go and get their hit, they keep bunking off, they then find themselves without qualifications and hope of any decent work. Whether it is the cannabis per se or the social scene around heavy use, the cannabis scene one way or another is ruining their lives.

 

I have not dwelt so much on the chemical effects of cannabis, because as that article summarizes it, and as I have said before, the issue of cannabis and psychosis is a chicken and egg one.

 

Whatever way you look at it, cannabis is not harmless.

I don't really want to believe that cannabis will have long term mental health effects until I know the chemicals causing it.

 

Of course it is not harmless, I do think it should be legal due to freedom.

[heavywaters]

Actually Cannabis is showing a lot of promise as a memory aid in Alzheimer patients.

Or more precisely, slowing or even halting deterioration.

 

Believe it or not there are chemicals within THC that can even stimulate the regeneration of brain cells!

 

I'm telling ya, weed does more good than harm, the more scientists study it the better it gets.

 

THE WONDER PLANT

Edited January 20, 2011 by heavywaters

[ginnyfizz]

Hmm...I shall have to ask my mother's specialist then, the thought of the old dear spliffed up doesn't bear thinking about, but it might stop her getting aggressive.