Problem with editing others mods

[thestoryteller01]

So I started a new MW playthrough and decided to play with Morrowind Rebirth - and a load of other mods.

 

Several of the old mods need a little fixing because I either can't reach doors/NPCs/items or they look plain weird with the Rebirth terraforming. I'm not new to modding and I've read several guides (like the MMM Manual or the Builders Bible) and I started.

 

It was easy where I had only to change the landscape and add a thing or two for looks. With the right load order Mod+Rebirth+my patches worked flawlessly. But then I had to MOVE something from a mod and now I'm stuck.

 

To work on "mod X" I had to load it into the toolset together with the 3 Vanilla .esm and Rebirth. I moved stuff from the mod around and saved the .esp as "mod X patch". When I tested the mods today, I encountered the following problem: When I loaded both "mod X and my "mod X patch", I had in the game both the original stuff and a duplicate of everything I moved. But If I only loaded my "mod X patch", then I only had the stuff I moved and everything else was missing, no matter what load order I chose.

 

What have I done wrong?

Edited May 26, 2015 by thestoryteller01

[hollaajith]

You cannot move references in ESP from another ESP. You need to edit the original ESP for changing references.

[thestoryteller01]

After some research I have probably understood how it works:

 

I load the basic .esm files, the MW Rebirth esp and the modX.esp, making the later the "active file" when I start to work in the CS. Then I save modX.esp and afterwards rename it to modXpatch.esp to get a Rebirth-compatible modX that can be used in place of the original modX.

 

What I still don't understand is, what happens when I change things from the MW Rebirth esp while editing an active mod.

 

As long as I add stuff or enlarge/rise landscape features, it seems not to be a problem but what if I want to delete stuff or make landscape changes like p.e a deeper river? Those changes will become part of the saved modX but will that still collide if loaded together with MW Rebirth?

Edited May 26, 2015 by thestoryteller01

[hollaajith]

make landscape changes like p.e a deeper river? Those changes will become part of the saved modX but will that still collide if loaded together with MW Rebirth?

If you had Rebirth loaded while making the patch, then there won't be any problem.

 

As for deleting stuff, it depends on what 'deleting' is.

If you mean deleting objects placed in the world by Rebirth, then the 'deletion' doesn't take effect. More info about References here.

If you mean deleting the object from the mod in 'Object Window' (not in Render window), then as long as the mod loads later, the deltion works.

[thestoryteller01]

 

make landscape changes like p.e a deeper river? Those changes will become part of the saved modX but will that still collide if loaded together with MW Rebirth?

If you had Rebirth loaded while making the patch, then there won't be any problem.

 

As for deleting stuff, it depends on what 'deleting' is.

If you mean deleting objects placed in the world by Rebirth, then the 'deletion' doesn't take effect. More info about References here.

If you mean deleting the object from the mod in 'Object Window' (not in Render window), then as long as the mod loads later, the deltion works.

 

First of all, thanks for being so patient with me. I thought I know my way around toolsets and editors but I must sound like a complete newbie here.

 

While I'm glad that landscaping changes work as described, I still don't get (static) object thing.

 

I load MW.esm, Rebirth.esp and modX.esp with modX the active file

I do some landscaping, add and delete a few rocks in the render window.

Then I load everything with MMM (modX.esp) being lowest in load order to "override" Rebirth.esp and play

But while the landscape edits and the additional rocks are all there, the deleted rocks still aren't.

 

If I understood right, I have to delete the "references" of anything I want to get rid of from Rebirth.esp? And I can do that if I click the object to open the object window?

 

Another thing. Is it generally better (=cleaner) to clone+delete, move or delete+place new one if manipulating objects from a loaded mod that is not the active one?

[hollaajith]

I load MW.esm, Rebirth.esp and modX.esp with modX the active file

I do some landscaping, add and delete a few rocks in the render window.

Then I load everything with MMM (modX.esp) being lowest in load order to "override" Rebirth.esp and play

But while the landscape edits and the additional rocks are all there, the deleted rocks still aren't.

 

You cannot move/delete references which were added by another plugin. Thats what I said in my first post. The reason is each ESP act independently, because an ESP cannot 'depend' on another ESP. So, both rebirth.esp and modX.esp do their edits to the references. So in your case Rebirth adds rocks and modX.esp deletes 'imaginary' rocks.

 

 

If I understood right, I have to delete the "references" of anything I want to get rid of from Rebirth.esp? And I can do that if I click the object to open the object window?

To delete references added by Rebirth, you need to delete the references in rebirth.esp itself. No other way.

Also, I should apologize for confusing you with the deletion thing. When you 'delete' objects from Object window (like in 'Negative Light Remover' found here), that object itself is deleted. So, if you delete the rock in 'Object Window' the rock ceases to exist. So that rock's references too gets deleted, even the references added by Morrowind.esm. So, it is inadvisable to delete objects in 'Object Window'.

 

Another thing. Is it generally better (=cleaner) to clone+delete, move or delete+place new one if manipulating objects from a loaded mod that is not the active one?

Its never a good idea to manipulate references of one ESP from another ESP. But, you can edit other things like object values, scripts, NPC stats etc. The only problematic bit is the reference bit.

[thestoryteller01]

Ok, I think I got it together now : )

 

Thanks again for your time and your patience!

Edited May 29, 2015 by thestoryteller01