Banning

[grannywils]

May I begin by saying that this is a legitimate and sincere inquiry. Don't know if any of the Administrators have a clue who I am. But if you will take a look around some of the threads or at some of my posts, I think that you will see that I make every effort to follow the rules and to post honestly and politely. I try to see everyone's viewpoint whether or not I agree. If I feel that I am unable to stick within forum rules, I get off the thread.

 

My question has to do with banning. Yes, I have read the rules. I believe I know what constitutes inappropriate language, etc. I certainly know about discussion of disallowed subjects. I'm pretty sure I know what "flaming" is. Although flaming is a new term for me, having never been on a site such as this before.

 

I am just curious about the decision-making process that comes into play when an individual is banned. I know about the 3 strike rule. I know that in many if not most cases there has been blatant disregard of forum rules and guidelines. However, and maybe I am wrong, I have also occasionally gotten the feeling that there have been members who have just been a bit "hard to take" in terms of their speaking style and mannerisms. Some have maybe pulled no punches, so to speak, and have not been very well liked by the group at large. Is it possible that someone like that could get banned just for being a pain in the rear if the request was made often enough by other memebers. I do not mean to suggest that it has ever happened, but I just wonder if it is possible.

 

I just have this huge "thing" for the underdog, and this whole Earth Mother complex, so I end up wondering about things like that. Anyway I was just wondering and thought I would ask. I hope you don't mind.

[Thandal]

Hi, GW! Haven't been seeing your posts recently (we must be vistiting different parts of the Nexus.)

 

I can't speak FOR the Moderators, but I do speak WITH several of them on a pretty frequent basis. My impression is that as a group they are some of the most consciencious and hardworking volunteers around. I have also seen how they are more than willing to give the benefit of the doubt to any poster in almost all circumstances except two:

 

1) Piracy. No Warning. Just Gone.

2) Abusing the staff or other users. (Usually repeatedly.)

 

I make it a habit to check the Strikes and Bans thread, and to check the "reference post" to see what sparked the action. I have never found an example that made me think the Modereator had been overly hasty or way out of line. Not one.

 

If someone engages in, advocates for, or excuses others' piracy or copyright/EULA violations -- Instaban. Their contributions are not needed or wanted here.

 

If someone can't help but deliberately insult others or make personal attacks, they are equally unwelcome.

 

In those few cases where, as you put it, someone is just "hard to take" or "not well liked by the group", I haven't see a ban uneless/until the person had also crossed over into situation 1) or 2) above. And in the even fewer cases of truly "just being misunderstood" and/or "learned my lesson", I have seen several such people readmitted to the Nexus after making their cases (in a PM) to the Moderator involved or directly to Dark0ne.

 

Not sure if you have any specific examples in mind, but with over 2,000,000 users, and the thousands (tens-of-thousands?) of posts/comments/images being added every day, the half-dozen or so staff aren't LOOKING for problems, they're following-up on the ones reported by other users. So in the vast majority of cases, at least TWO people had to think there was an issue before anything happens.

 

As a thought experiment, condsider: Who is the "underdog" here?

 

The (possibly) objectionable poster, who has total power to control what they place on the site in the first place, or the ordinary user who is assaulted by what they happen to come across?

 

And that's not even addressing the good folk who make and upload mods and images for the rest of us to freely enjoy, only to be directly and vehemently attacked by someone who didn't like what they provided. (Or to have their work stolen by someone who did.)

[DeadMansFist849]

You won't get the boot for disagreeing with somebody (provided this is done without behaving like a 5-year-old). People don't get ejected from the site just for being different or "hard to take". If they go too far, and actually flame and/or harrass others, then it's different.

[grannywils]

Hi, GW! Haven't been seeing your posts recently (we must be vistiting different parts of the Nexus.)

 

I can't speak FOR the Moderators, but I do speak WITH several of them on a pretty frequent basis. My impression is that as a group they are some of the most consciencious and hardworking volunteers around. I have also seen how they are more than willing to give the benefit of the doubt to any poster in almost all circumstances except two:

 

1) Piracy. No Warning. Just Gone.

2) Abusing the staff or other users. (Usually repeatedly.)

 

I make it a habit to check the Strikes and Bans thread, and to check the "reference post" to see what sparked the action. I have never found an example that made me think the Modereator had been overly hasty or way out of line. Not one.

 

If someone engages in, advocates for, or excuses others' piracy or copyright/EULA violations -- Instaban. Their contributions are not needed or wanted here.

 

If someone can't help but deliberately insult others or make personal attacks, they are equally unwelcome.

 

In those few cases where, as you put it, someone is just "hard to take" or "not well liked by the group", I haven't see a ban uneless/until the person had also crossed over into situation 1) or 2) above. And in the even fewer cases of truly "just being misunderstood" and/or "learned my lesson", I have seen several such people readmitted to the Nexus after making their cases (in a PM) to the Moderator involved or directly to Dark0ne.

 

Not sure if you have any specific examples in mind, but with over 2,000,000 users, and the thousands (tens-of-thousands?) of posts/comments/images being added every day, the half-dozen or so staff aren't LOOKING for problems, they're following-up on the ones reported by other users. So in the vast majority of cases, at least TWO people had to think there was an issue before anything happens.

 

As a thought experiment, condsider: Who is the "underdog" here?

 

The (possibly) objectionable poster, who has total power to control what they place on the site in the first place, or the ordinary user who is assaulted by what they happen to come across?

 

And that's not even addressing the good folk who make and upload mods and images for the rest of us to freely enjoy, only to be directly and vehemently attacked by someone who didn't like what they provided. (Or to have their work stolen by someone who did.)

 

 

 

Hi Thandal, I agree we must be visiting different locations lately. I miss seeing you as well.

 

You've made some valid points regarding "who is the underdog here". I'll have to mull that one over a bit. It is unfortunate though that in a group demographic such as this one we all have such differing styles, not all of us are able to comply with what may be considered the "norm". However, I believe that it is important that we all make the effort, and sometimes it would appear that not everyone has. Those may be the ones who have gotten the boot.

 

In any event, as I mentioned, it was more a matter of curiosity on my part than anything else. No one admires more than I the job that is done by this group of volunteers you refer to above. I have stated so myself on numerous unsolicited occasions.

 

Thank you for your response. It is certainly appreciated.

[DarkeWolf]

Hiyas Gran! Its good to see your posts again, and your concern for the rules and the community :)

A very large portion of the bans have recently been from the chat. For some reason, some people don't seem to be able to get along very well in there. They go about insulting each other, calling other people names, or just generally acting like bad apples. That is where a lot of the flaming bans are coming from. And in a lot of the cases, the chat ban was a violation of the rules that are also effective for the forums and the other nexus sites. So the rules that they broke there, are rules that go for the entire nexus sites. A person can't break the rules in one part of the site, and not have to pay for breaking those rules in the rest of the sites.

Another very large portion of the chat bans are due to piracy.

And a lot of the members that have been banned from the chat make pains in the rear outta themselves by coming back to make more accounts to bypass the ban. Also a violation of the rules, and we send them back out as soon as they are caught.

 

Recently the IPboards forums that the forums themselves are hosted on have been getting hit by a lot of spammer bots. This has also contributed to some of the recent bans.

 

A few of them have been coming from the image uploads. Where the rules are that there is to be no images of nudity or sexual context uploaded unless it is to the subscriber section. We give people a bit of leeway on that one. We give them chances to straighten it out. But a few in the past have made it a situation to see just how far they can push. And they find themselves shown the door because they can't follow the rules regarding that matter.

 

Up until the chats, the largest amount of violations was in regards to mod upload threads IMO. The mod uploads section of the sites is a very strict, zero-tolerance area, where the rules are very, very strictly enforced. It is considered to be a no-strike zone, where we do not issue strikes.

And granted... it comes down to the staffer handling the situation, or the report. In some cases we feel that its not serious enough to warrant a ban, and issue them a warning. But otherwise, its a case where the rules state that if you cant behave in there, you need to go elsewhere (paraphrased, of course).

 

As for the "pain in the rump" members that you're referring to. And by that, I mean members who's posting behavior is gray area. They try to keep it toned down just enough that they are not openly flaming or insulting people, but are still upsetting the other members.

The process on this starts when we start getting complaints about said individual. We review those reports and handle them on a case by case basis. So say that the first few reports, aren't a clear and open violation of any of the rules, but was still reported because it offended somebody. This is where we start watching their behavior. We have staff forums where we post in regards to said member, and basically share/trade information about their behaviors.

 

And its not just based on reports, its the content that they post which we regard. For instance, if 5 people reported a comment made to the effect of "thats a really dumb idea." No, we are most likely not going to count that in. So people "ganging up" on somebody and making mass reports against them isn't effective for getting them banned. Its the content posted that is being reported that will get them banned.

And most of these members get warnings. They receive strikes. We take it via the same process as we do any and all of the other members. But yes, if we are receiving a meaningful amount of complaints about that person then we are more likely to show them the door after a while.

 

Yes, we've had issues like that here in the past. Some of those members are gone now. Some of them are still here, and are behaving themselves closely enough in the rules that they are allowed to remain.

 

I hope that this addresses your concerns my friend. :)

 

-DW

[grannywils]

Hi DW, You have answered some very specific questions that I had, and I do appreciate it. As you know you have always been my favorite Administrator, based on the fact that you were to very first person to help me out when I joined Nexus (even though you were not yet an administrator at that time).

 

I appreciate your taking the time to clarify some issues for me. Thank you.

[DarkeWolf]

Hi DW, You have answered some very specific questions that I had, and I do appreciate it. As you know you have always been my favorite Administrator, based on the fact that you were to very first person to help me out when I joined Nexus (even though you were not yet an administrator at that time).

 

I appreciate your taking the time to clarify some issues for me. Thank you.

 

GW- wellllll... technically, I'm a "moderator" not an administrator, but I know what you mean :) And I appreciate that. And I'm really glad to see that you are still around here on the forums, and branching out from just the DA forums :) And I hope that you are around here to keep us company for quite some time to come ;)

 

I'm always glad to help out. And to help you out when I can. I really like good people :)

 

Not a problem at all, and if you have any other questions, never hesitate to ask. Either out here, or via pm.

Have a great one my friend!

-DW

[DarkNinja13]

*snip*

And its not just based on reports, its the content that they post which we regard. For instance, if 5 people reported a comment made to the effect of "thats a really dumb idea." No, we are most likely not going to count that in. So people "ganging up" on somebody and making mass reports against them isn't effective for getting them banned. Its the content posted that is being reported that will get them banned.

And most of these members get warnings. They receive strikes. We take it via the same process as we do any and all of the other members. But yes, if we are receiving a meaningful amount of complaints about that person then we are more likely to show them the door after a while.

 

What gets me though is that not all the moderators seem to be on the same page with this mindset.

 

Within a week there were 2 instances of a modder insulting someone on seperate threads in the file upload section - even the type of insults were similar (they called into question the intelligence of the person who was complaining/neggin the file). The first person who did this, got banned. The second (this was the one you handled) only recieved a strike.

 

I have to honest here, this sort of inconsitency is why I stay away from the forums (I don't even got into the OT forums any more) and if I do post anything I keep it brief.

[DarkeWolf]

What gets me though is that not all the moderators seem to be on the same page with this mindset.

 

Within a week there were 2 instances of a modder insulting someone on seperate threads in the file upload section - even the type of insults were similar (they called into question the intelligence of the person who was complaining/neggin the file). The first person who did this, got banned. The second (this was the one you handled) only recieved a strike.

 

I have to honest here, this sort of inconsitency is why I stay away from the forums (I don't even got into the OT forums any more) and if I do post anything I keep it brief.

 

You have a very good point DarkNinja. And it's very valid as well. :thumbsup:

And one that I probably am not going to be able to answer as well as I wish I could.

 

In the situation of a lot of the reports that we get, it is up to the discretion of the staffer handling the report, or the situation. And, (hopefully this doesn't get taken wrong) some of us are more strict and hardcase, where others of us are a bit more lenient.

 

In the case of modders who are posting comments on their own mods, it is very firmly believed that a modder has a right to defend his own work and themselves. However, just like everybody else, they need to do so in a calm and civil manner. OR they need to leave the comment alone and report it and let us handle it. IE- Don't feed the trolls.

 

Beyond that, all that I am really going to say is that yes... this Is something that is being discussed by the staff. I'm not really going to go any more into it because I really don't know how much of it is privileged info, and what isn't.

And yes, I do have opinions on this particular subject, but again... those are things that I need to keep between myself and other members of the staff.

 

Sorry for not being able to give you a better answer on this one :(

-DW

Edited January 28, 2011 by DarkeWolf

[Eiries]

Sorry for not being able to give you a better answer on this one :(

-DW

 

You answered that one as well as humanly possible, sir.

 

In any situation where there is a group of administrators working to keep a place running, there will be some that are more forgiving than others, be it a website, school, or place of work. Such is nature. I suppose in many situations it just depends on how lucky the offender is. :)

 

Regardless of the punishment dealt to a member, they're always welcome to earnestly apologize to attempt to get back in, and that's a very, very important fact to remember. The staff here are exceptionally gracious and, in countless cases, forgiving. Few sites of this caliber can say they have such a caring crew.