"Proper" khajit and argonian bodyshapes/animations

[razorpony]

If you need help with mesh editing I might be able to lend a hand. I created the feet Semtex uses in his mod, as well as the Armored Paws N Tails mod which is still an indefinite WIP. I originally used JazzJRs feet myself but I use the HGEC body and could not get his feet properly retextured to match the body. No offense to him at all, they just didn't work for what I had in mind. I know nothing of the skeleton and resizing mods you've been speaking about so 'true' digitigrade feet were beyond my ability. I'm pretty sure the way Drakes scripts work is to automatically equip feet whenever the altered digitigrade leg/pant mesh is equipped. Someone correct me if I'm wrong on this.

 

The reason I pointed out Semtex's mod is that he's added the feet as an ability so that the feet equip happens automatically when no other footwear is equipped. This means it works on ALL Khajiit, even if the player char is a different race. Let me know if there's anything I can help with. My main area of interest is meshmaking/editing in Blender and Nifscope. I'm not that good at texturing from scratch but I can retexture meshes using existing textures fairly well. I'm also a feline race fan and would like to see this happen.

 

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w101/Razorpony/Crebain/ScreenShot129_cr.jpg

 

 

Custom Ka Po Tun Character

 

New head mesh.

Custom braids

Custom armor

Resized and retextured roberts female body using HGEC white tabaxi textures.

Custom claws and paws

Custom Katana

(Just ignore the large breasts :P )

Edited March 5, 2011 by razorpony

[MarkInMKUK]

Hi razorpony,

 

The feet you did are likely to be our starting point as they are the best we have. I'm offline til Wednesday so can only join in via smartphone til then. Part of the plan is to use Drakes script as a basis as this allows you to choose a different body for Argonians, so that should hold true for Khajiits too. Ideally i want the feet to look a little less thick- clawed - whether that is doable maybe you can advise. Drak uses Slofs claws as a resource fot the reptiles but they look too bulky to me for khajiit - again maybe you can advise. Also if there's a way to make the mesh flatten a little when "stood on" just to make walkinh look more natural. I await your inpit eagerly.

[razorpony]

I've been looking into Semtexs script and various other OBSE commands and the same technique can be used on the rest of the body as well. This means that when unclothed, your character can have any shape or size body you want. So, making true digitigrade feet and legs shouldn't be a problem so long as we make armor and clothing replacers to fit. I'm not sure about deforming the mesh when walking or standing, although that would be a cool idea. Perhaps with one of the maximum compatibility skeletons this would be possible as there are more bones there to work with.

 

Razorpony

[MarkInMKUK]

Hi Razorpony,

 

The "mesh deformation" would require separate tow "bones" I think, as you'd need them to "spread" slightly when they hit the foot-down position. We'll leave that as a "maybe/someday/never" part of the ideas I think! (Too many bright ideas at my end for them ALL to be possible).

 

As an alternative to the "feet as an ability" idea, Drake's scripted feet have a facility where they check whatever you try to put on your feet, and if a substitute mesh has been made then allow you to equip the relevant footwear, otherwise they are unequipable - both by yourself and by NPCs. This means, of course, that part of the conversion for both races has to be replacement meshes for those boots which are quest-related items, or we've effectively broken the quest. The downside is that you cannot "remove" the feet to wear human boots. Alternatively we could script a dexterity and speed penalty for a Khajiit wearing human boots, I guess.

 

I've been having a look at the feet in question again, and JazzJR's foot shape is closer to what I had in mind - if you look at a cat standing on its hind legs (as I do often - our male cat can JUST get his paws over the edge of the kitchen worktop when I'm cutting cheese!) you'll see where the "heel" ends up is a lot higher than on the feet you uploaded - that's the difference between digitgrade (standing on toes) and plantigrade (standing on sole of foot and heel) footshapes. Maybe some kind of compromise between the two would work, but you really need that "heel" to end up as high as possible. There should be a corresponding shortening of the other leg bones to adjust for the increased foot height. so possibly a slightly modified skeleton would give the best attempt, but I'd need advice from someone who has tweaked skeletons before deciding that.

 

I LOVE the hand meshes though, so we'll HAVE to put those in :) I also like the replacement head mesh - maybe we could offer that as an option?

 

I spent a while looking at tiger feet this weekend - they are slightly blunter clawed than I remembered, but the claws still look more cat-like than the ones in JazzJR's feet, which almost look dog-like. The ones on your feet may be closer - it's a little hard to tell.

 

The other thing which is distinctive about cat feet is the pads underneath - again, tiger feet is the reference point I think.

 

I'm hoping to have internet access at home back again by Wednesday, then I can do more than squint at my smartphone screen to make out details.

Edited March 7, 2011 by MarkInMKUK

[hellchosen]

this is good this project finally has a mesh guy now we just need to get a good texture or someone to make one

 

also i love the head mesh and the braids but i think the hands need longer claws on them

 

and the deformation sounds cool and max compatibility skeletons might work for that

 

hopefully ppl will make armor mods for our race but we sould prob make atleast a few so new users have nice armor to wear

 

and of course shoes to wear lol i cant wait till this is finished :edit: almost forgot the fur texture looks pretty good too

Edited March 9, 2011 by hellchosen

[razorpony]

I've been doing a bit of playtesting and things are going pretty well so far. I've got the scripting modified to equip the upperbody, lowerbody, and feet when those slots are unused. The effect is that when unclothed, Khajiit females all have Roberts female body. I still need to add provisions for the tail and hands but so far so good.

 

Step 2 was reworking the feet and leg meshes to get something more akin to a digitigrade paw and I think that turned well also. I still need to make a male version and rework the claws a bit but it's getting there. The head mesh that I made works ok for the PC, but on NPCs it lacks the proper weighting to make the mouth move right during dialogue. I've looked at head mesh tutorials and fixing it looks complicated. Maybe someday. :P

 

The final piece of the puzzle will be breaking down Drakes scripts and figuring out how to cleanly do some armor replacement. Once that's sorted I'll start working on the armor meshes. Did anyone have any preference as to how the armor should look? I'm a fan of the exposed paw/shinguard but I've heard some complaints about that style. Feel free to share any design ideas.

 

 

Razorpony

 

WIP

 

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w101/Razorpony/Crebain/digi1.jpg

 

Front

 

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w101/Razorpony/Crebain/digi2.jpg

 

Back

[MarkInMKUK]

Hi Razorpony -

 

Those look to be a great start - MUCH more realistic for a cat-based rear foot. I also like the exposed foot + shinguard approach, however for some boots it may make sense to have some kind of sole (for example, if a boot adds electrical resistance or heat resistance, the sole is the obvious place for that to act). I know Drake's got a few Argonian meshes for things like the arena sandals so maybe it would be a good idea to look at those

 

With Drake's script, you install a specific pair of body replacers and armor/clothing replacers for the Argonian race - male and female can have different base models (I use Robert male and HGEC AA-cup female). The meshes and textures for the clothing are renamed with a suffix and stored separately from the main clothing. If a renamed footwear mesh exists, that will be used by the character, otherwise the bare foot will be used.

 

I was thinking on the stock footwear side, and it might make sense to have the Khajiit bare footed for normal shoes. Females, however, might tint their claws to the colour of the footwear - so black and gold shoes would become black nails with gold tips - is that doable? If it is, could the fingernails also be tinted for females to match their upper body clothing where that seems appropriate - using the same method that I believe some robes do to have integral gloves. Knowing how some women love their nail art, that could be quite fun (although a fair bit of work - time for me to learn how to do textures I guess). Gloves might become fingerless, to show the nails, or have integral nail sheaths to give a clawed glove effect where that seems appropriate.

 

Trying to get my internet back today - one final company to contact and i *hope* to be back online from home.

Edit: <curse, swear> Another seven to ten days before i have the net back at home - don't you just LOVE British efficiency?

 

Mark

Edited March 9, 2011 by MarkInMKUK

[hellchosen]

i like the prototype khajiit more body types will be good to draw in ppl and altho i am a dude the tinted claws sounds pretty cool lol

 

also i am a fan of open shoes and as far as body armor goes something more tribal and fierce maybe even a lil primal would be good imo

 

other than that its looking good :thumbsup:

[MarkInMKUK]

I think we're at a consulting stage on the clothing mods.

 

Re the boots - if anyone has objections to the shinguard/exposed paw idea, we're going to need sketches of how you envisage the alternatives looking - even if it's the screen shots from the post above modified with some lines in Paint.

 

Regarding other armor - we are using a standard body replacer which SHOULD work fine, apart from any leg adjustments we make which may do odd things to skirts (I think trousers will shorten ok, but am willing to be proven wrong). Customising armor to make Khajiit variations look "more tribal" is beyond the scope of what I originally set out to get done, but if anyone is talented that way I certainly have no objection to a "tribal armor pack".

 

Comments/suggestions please?

[razorpony]

All good ideas I think, although a lot of it would be better suited to an expansion after the vanilla items are out of the way. I think the tribal armor and nail art would fit into an Elsweyr patch down the road. As for having different armor meshes based on enchantments, I don't want to get too technical. The base scripting is proving to be challenging enough already :tongue:.

 

I'm trying to change the way Drake set his script up. If it works it'll be more of a headache now to iron out the details, but everything in the future should just fall into place. Wish me luck. I'll be here up to my eyeballs in OBSE.

 

Razorpony