VGI Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 The mods I have tried so far for these two races have...disappointed me. You have to get the "feet" from a container or something, as if it were footwear. Gosh. Does Ren's Beauty Pack and the HGEC mod do things to the Khajiit and Argonian races? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferryt Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 You might want to check out "Proper" khajit and argonian bodyshapes/animations in the Oblivion Mod Requests section. We're already discussing issues like feet for both races. As for your specific question I don't know. I use Robert's male and female body replacement mods and they work just fine with Argonian and Khajiit characters. I'd assume HGEC would as well. Isn't Ren's Beauty Pack just about the Mystic Elf custom race? If so, I really don't see how that would impact characters of other races. Aliensloff has done some retexturing of the Khajiit race. You'll have to go to her website, Slof's Hive, for more information, because she's pulled all her mods off other sites, including this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VGI Posted February 15, 2011 Author Share Posted February 15, 2011 You might want to check out "Proper" khajit and argonian bodyshapes/animations in the Oblivion Mod Requests section. We're already discussing issues like feet for both races. As for your specific question I don't know. I use Robert's male and female body replacement mods and they work just fine with Argonian and Khajiit characters. I'd assume HGEC would as well. Isn't Ren's Beauty Pack just about the Mystic Elf custom race? If so, I really don't see how that would impact characters of other races. Aliensloff has done some retexturing of the Khajiit race. You'll have to go to her website, Slof's Hive, for more information, because she's pulled all her mods off other sites, including this one. Does Robert's male and female body replacement mods add claws and paws to the Khajiit and reptilian feet (not human-retextured with scales feet) to the Argonians? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferryt Posted February 15, 2011 Share Posted February 15, 2011 No, but Slof has a retexturing mod designed specifically for use with Robert's body replacements that adds claws to Khajiit feet, as I recall. Robert's mods, as with other mods like HGEC, are simply designed to offer alternate body types from the vanilla body type without actually changing the default skeleton to something radically different, which is what a true Khajiit or Argonian overhaul mod would require. The issue of digitigrade legs could be solved by simply lengthening the bone that defines the foot from heel to the ball of the foot. That is, essentially, the only difference between the basic skeletal structure of a real plantigrade leg and a real digitigrade leg -- just difference in scaling of the length of the bones, relative to each other. The foot would have to have a different mesh than the human foot if you want something that looks more beast-like than human-like. That is addressed by reworking the default mesh. The default Khajiit texture would have to be altered to account for the difference in the shape of the Khajiit foot. Slof had originally added actual claws to her Khajiit's feet, but ran into unavoidable clipping issues with stock Oblivion footwear, so she altered the foot so that the claws were part of the texture, instead. With what we're talking about, here, though, that's not an issue. We already know the modified feet aren't going to work with existing footwear, and a true digitigrade leg isn't going to work with stock clothing, either. This all means that once someone creates our naked Khajiit, someone else is going to have to equip him/her with clothing designed specifically for the Khajiit race, and that includes certain quest items like the Boots of Springhill Jack which will almost certainly clip out on a digitigrade leg. Some of this may be further compounded by the various body replacement mods, since some clothing is designed very specifically for one mod or another. Unfortunately for those of us who prefer the superior (in my opinion) Robert's female body replacer, the HGEC replacer is the most popular, due, I'm sure, to the ability to endow female characters with larger-than-life breasts, so some of us will likely find ourselves without support for a Robert's-based Khajiit. For me, that means I'll stick with the vanilla version because I don't like the basic HGEC female mesh. Keep in mind that I know very little about either modeling or texturing, and someone with more knowledge may know a very simple solution to something which seems perplexing to the rest of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VGI Posted February 15, 2011 Author Share Posted February 15, 2011 No, but Slof has a retexturing mod designed specifically for use with Robert's body replacements that adds claws to Khajiit feet, as I recall. Robert's mods, as with other mods like HGEC, are simply designed to offer alternate body types from the vanilla body type without actually changing the default skeleton to something radically different, which is what a true Khajiit or Argonian overhaul mod would require. The issue of digitigrade legs could be solved by simply lengthening the bone that defines the foot from heel to the ball of the foot. That is, essentially, the only difference between the basic skeletal structure of a real plantigrade leg and a real digitigrade leg -- just difference in scaling of the length of the bones, relative to each other. The foot would have to have a different mesh than the human foot if you want something that looks more beast-like than human-like. That is addressed by reworking the default mesh. The default Khajiit texture would have to be altered to account for the difference in the shape of the Khajiit foot. Slof had originally added actual claws to her Khajiit's feet, but ran into unavoidable clipping issues with stock Oblivion footwear, so she altered the foot so that the claws were part of the texture, instead. With what we're talking about, here, though, that's not an issue. We already know the modified feet aren't going to work with existing footwear, and a true digitigrade leg isn't going to work with stock clothing, either. This all means that once someone creates our naked Khajiit, someone else is going to have to equip him/her with clothing designed specifically for the Khajiit race, and that includes certain quest items like the Boots of Springhill Jack which will almost certainly clip out on a digitigrade leg. Some of this may be further compounded by the various body replacement mods, since some clothing is designed very specifically for one mod or another. Unfortunately for those of us who prefer the superior (in my opinion) Robert's female body replacer, the HGEC replacer is the most popular, due, I'm sure, to the ability to endow female characters with larger-than-life breasts, so some of us will likely find ourselves without support for a Robert's-based Khajiit. For me, that means I'll stick with the vanilla version because I don't like the basic HGEC female mesh. Keep in mind that I know very little about either modeling or texturing, and someone with more knowledge may know a very simple solution to something which seems perplexing to the rest of us. Sounds like you know a lot already. Thanks, that explains a lot which actually helps me make my own decision. Perhaps I will stick with vanilla. I've got to finish this game and move on. Bethesda always seem to come out of a TES project with something lacking; makes me think that they rely on the modding community too much. I wish Bethesda stuck with the Morrowind design of Khajiit and Argonians. Yes, in TES3 they cannot wear footwear (at least the stock). But I didn't complain because it just made sense. It would also make sense if in TES4 they added stock footwear (and tail-wear/armor) specifically for these 2 beast races. I mean, imagine living in a world with beast races, and its a capitalist world with merchants and such. If in our world chiwawas and such gets clothed, how much more if these beast races were actually sentient and used currency? It would just make sense that, in such a world as TES, there would be a demand (or a demand would be created) for beast-race footwear. Though it may not catch on as well as human footwear would, still there would be business peeps who would supply that demand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatsfromElsweyr Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 (edited) Seems like a good idea. I dont like plantigrade cats and lizards, it doesnt seem right, and there are a few mods that help, but i would prefer one that didnt use HGEC, i like the roberts more, and KATS does use roberts (i might be wrong), and also supplies clothes. not sure if the argonian feet by DraketheDragon has clothes though. i have been looking for any good ones, not clothing feet.l Edited March 20, 2012 by CatsfromElsweyr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrakeTheDragon Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) Seems like a good idea. I dont like plantigrade cats and lizards, it doesnt seem right, and there are a few mods that help, but i would prefer one that didnt use HGEC, i like the roberts more, and KATS does use roberts (i might be wrong), and also supplies clothes. not sure if the argonian feet by DraketheDragon has clothes though. i have been looking for any good ones, not clothing feet.l The trouble with this is, no other solution exists. The game engine is hardcoded to use 1 single set of body meshes for all races, and this can't be changed, not even with OBSE. And even if there "was" a way to change it, you'd still have to take care of the issue that in Oblivion your body comes with your clothes. No matter what body mod you're using, once you equip an item you get the body contained inside it. That's why Stock Replacers are so vital for body mods. There'd be no use in even having a body mod to begin with, if everybody you encounter, including yourself, still had a Vanilla body, as that's what's coming from the Vanilla clothing items he's wearing. And who's gonna run around naked all time in a world full of naked NPCs?... No, don't answer, please! If you change the skeleton, like making the "skeletonbeast.nif" actually digitigrade, this would come with several repercussions. For one the still-human foot meshes would look ridiculously deshaped, and for two there's no guarantee the skeleton is even used by all beasts. Skeletons are assigned on a per-actor basis (anybody remember MAO?), only the player is limited to "skeleton.nif" and "skeletonbeast.nif", and which one of them is used by him is controlled through a yet-to-be-determined selection process based on race somehow. Still couldn't figure out what tells the difference. There's no setting with a race telling it's a beast race or something. Yet, when you copy a beast race, the new race is a beast race, too. If you copy a human one, there's no way to make it a beast race afterwards. Just weird. Oh, and let's not forget #3, certain animations are capable of "reverting" the changes you made to the skeleton while playing, as if you never elongated the bones to begin with. So unless you also redo "all" animations, there's no guarantee it'll even work. And if you "do" redo all animations, don't forget they're affecting "all" races again, making all others digitigrade as well. Ok, that last one can be overcome nowadays, as the set of animations used is determined by the location of the skeleton file used. So in theory you can have a completely unique set of animations for certain races, or actors, but changing the skeleton used by a race doesn't work, like I said, as it's bound to the individual actors, not the race, and changing the skeleton used by the player can only be done during runtime via advanced OBSE scripting, and this one can't even change the 1st person skeleton, yet. ...Drawbacks and repercussions a plenty, and it's that far away from being a mainstream solution... So the only way to get custom-shaped bodyparts on certain races is this "wearable bodyparts" approach, turning the body meshes into wearable items and having them equipped via scripts. "clothing feet"... there simply is no other way! And for the records, I did make "a few" adapted clothing and armor items for SAF, but back then I was a scripter, primarily, and didn't know my way around in Blender as sufficiently as I do today. If there hadn't been this real life hiatus which killed all my free time 2 years ago until now, and for years to come, I would have definitely created and/or released full sets of adapted items for Vanilla, DLCs, overhauls and most likely also for most, if not all, bodies supported by my mods. Back then those meshes were only a proof of concept, something to see how it's intended to work with everything else later on. But sadly it never left that state of "unfinished'ness" so far then. Today those few files are hard to come by, as I redesigned my package layout, seperated everything into body-dependant archives, provide base body meshes seperately from adapted clothing/armor items, and most disappointingly of all, never got around to release the first of those seperate adapted clothing/armor packages so far. The only way to obtain them nowadays is via the old and outdated v0.5b complete package for only Robert's Male and TFF. There was much more to come, but it never happened. I also already thought about altering my folder structure for those adapted NIF files so it's the same as with True Body Shapes/KATS, then everybody could decide for themselves whether they want my scripts to do the job or True Body Shapes', me only providing the meshes anymore, but again, this did never happen then. As for the "get from container" remark there in the OP, this was just jdayT's first attempt to go about adding them into the game. He created really nice and decent beast feet for Argonians and searched a simple way to put them into the game. Without any complex scripting, equipping them yourself was the only other option left. The beast feet "are" footwear, as there simply is no other way. So, one can very well blame "me" for not making much progress and leaving my mods in an awefully unfinished state, but nobody can blame "us" beast feet modders for choosing a cheap approach to go about it, when it's the "only" approach to go about it. :sleep: Love it or hate it, you won't get anything else. Edited March 21, 2012 by DrakeTheDragon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorpony Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 And all I can say is... Blame Drake! It's all his fault! Just kidding, man. You've inspired plenty of folks to try and follow in your lizard shaped footsteps. Good luck with real life, I hear it can be a pain in the @$$. :D RP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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