Advice wanted on merging ESP files

[MarkInMKUK]

I'm thinking of learning how to merge ESP files. I have a few obvoius candidates, and I am looking for advice on whether they are a suitable starting point for learning.

 

Currently I have all of the DLC modules on my install. I also have the Unofficial patches for them, and the SM Plugin Refurbish patches. Would it be sensible to attempt to merge the ESPs (which I have backup copies of) with the patch files and the SM files?

 

Advice please.

 

Oh, and would there be any advice on what bash tags to use, or just stick with the default ones for the DLC mods afterwards?

Edited February 17, 2011 by MarkInMKUK

[Herculine]

I can only speak for myself here, but...

 

...I WOULD NOT merge the DLC files. That could cause a lot of problems for anything dependent upon them.

 

I WOULD merge the UOP DLC files. I've done this in my current install and have had no issues.

 

I WOULD NOT use WRYE BASH BAIN or whatever else it's called. All I ever see about those on these forums is how the Bashed patches are ruining people's games. Perhaps this is largely due to user error and no fault of the program, but still I go with the statistics.

 

I WOULD use TES4GECKO to merge the files. This is what I always use to merge files and make other edits that the CS won't do, and I've never had any issues.

 

Hope this is helpful.

[Lehcar]

Herculine's advice was excellent. I'm going to agree that you should most definitely NOT merge the DLC files because that can seriously mess up your game.

 

Every ESP mod is different, it depends a lot on what kind of stuff it's editing or adding into the game, how many things are being edited, etc. Some mods are perfectly safe and can be merged no problem, while other simply were not meant to be and cannot be merged.

 

Definitely don't try to merge an ESP if there are other ESPs that are dependent on it because that will mess up your game. (it will cause your game to CTD on startup because those files are considered to be missing their master ESP). You also shouldn't merge any ESPs that edit any of the exact same things in the CS because they will clash and you could get some unexpected results. Extremely large ESP mods that make significant changes to the game also should not be merged because there's likely to be conflicts, the merged ESP won't work properly and will mess up your game.

 

Simple mods, such as things that only make small changes, such as add new eyes, hairs, weapons, armor, or other items into the game, and don't edit any existing resources should be perfectly safe to merge. I'm not sure about the SM files but the DLC UOP's should be safe to merge. Try it and then test the merged ESP ingame to see how it works. If the merged ESP turns out to be causing issues, don't worry, just delete it, then go back to your data files list and reselect all of the original patch files and everything will be good again.

 

There's a lot of room for error when merging files, so always be sure to keep the originals.

 

A word about merging ESPs that add new eyes and hair though, it's safe to merge them if they *only* add new eyes and hair, but NOT if they actually add the new eyes and hairs to the races (if you try to merge two ESPs that both make edits to a certain race they will clash and you'll get a borked result).

 

Here, there's this wonderful tool called TES4Edit . It's very easy and safe to use, this is what I use to clean the race edits out of a hair or eye mod before I merge it with my master ESP for all race related modifications, so they merge nice and cleanly with no clashes. The disadvantage is you still have to go an manually add each hairstyle and eye color to each race you want to use it on, but I say it's better than getting slapped in the face weirdness and errors.

 

A final word, I'm going to agree with Herculine here about Wrye Bash. It's a very complicated tool to use and definitely not for rookies, and can severely bork your game if you don't know what you are doing. I don't really use it myself (neither do I know how) and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone.

Edited February 17, 2011 by Lehcar

[Zetsuboketti]

In addition to Herculine's and Lehcar's advice, be aware that if a mod includes voice files then you usually have to rename the folder that the voice files are in to match the merged esp's name. For example, Brotherhood Renewed has a voice folder called "BrotherhoodRenewed.esp". That name would have to be changed to "NameofMergedesps.esp" or none of the files in that folder will appear in game.

[MarkInMKUK]

I may not have been 100% clear here - I was going to merge EACH DLC with the relevant UOP patch and SM Refurbish patch, and store under the DLC ESP name.

 

So, for example, I would take DLCThievesDen.esp, and merge it with DLC ThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp and DLS ThievesDen - Unofficial Patch - SSSB.esp, and maybe DLCThievesDen Vwalk UOP.esp and save the result as DLCThievesDen.esp

 

That way anything conditional on the DLC file would till have it, while I gain back 2/3 esp slots per DLC file.

Edited February 17, 2011 by MarkInMKUK

[Herculine]

I may not have been 100% clear here - I was going to merge EACH DLC with the relevant UOP patch and SM Refurbish patch, and store under the DLC ESP name.

 

I think that would cause a lot of problems. I don't recommend it at all.

 

 

 

[Ferryt]

This topic has piqued my interest in merging mods, again. One of the reasons I installed Wrye Bash was to be able to do this, and then I couldn't get the blasted thing to run, regardless of what I tried. The frustration mounted to the point where I was almost tempted to grab my gun and go out and start shooting at things -- not good, since I have a Desert Eagle.

 

I, too, was considering merging the Unofficial DLC Patches until I realized that I don't always run with Knights of the Nine. That would mess up the game, right? However, I'd think it would be safe to merge the main patch and the SI patch, since I always run with SI enabled. What about the supplementary patch, though?

 

Another question, since I'm obviously not at all knowledgeable about merging mods, let's say, just theoretically, that you like Thieves Den (the Dunbarrow Cove mod) and that you always use a certain third-party mod that affects it -- maybe adding something to the cave or adding an NPC or changing a dialog for one one them. Would it be advisable to merge that mod with the Thieves Den DLC, the DLC patches, or just the Thieves Den DLC patch and THEN merge the DLC patches together?

 

I'm way out of my environment, here, but I'm being very picky about the mods I add to my new install and one of the things I'm going to try to prevent is the "mod bloat" I experienced the last time I was playing Oblivion. Merging mods, making them easier to handle in-bulk, seems the right way to go. I have a lot of little, unrelated, mods I'd like to install, but I don't want my Data folder overflowing. I always use these mods, together, and they don't conflict, so I could just merge all of them into FerrytsFavorites.esp and be done with it. Yes?

 

*sigh* I feel like such a noob asking questions like this, but this seemed to be a much faster route to get an answer, since the topic is already up, than spending two hours of research when I'm supposed to be getting dinner ready.

[Lehcar]

I may not have been 100% clear here - I was going to merge EACH DLC with the relevant UOP patch and SM Refurbish patch, and store under the DLC ESP name.

 

I think that would cause a lot of problems. I don't recommend it at all.

 

 

 

 

Seconded. Merges of those would definitely not work properly and would cause serious problems.

[Herculine]

If you have a lot of little random mods that add a spell here, a sword there and an NPC over there, most likely they are safe to merge. As has been suggested above, however, it's always best to hang on to the originals and make sure the stuff in the merged .esp is all working before you remove the originals from your load oder, and even then you should still keep a library of your original mod DLs in a folder someplace 'cause you never know what might happen.

 

Now there are other things that can't be merged or that you have to be very selective about merging. One thing that I've done recently is get carried away with DLing castles from the Nexus. I've got dozens of them now. I can't merge many of them because they edit the landscape, and unless they are in certain spots on my load order I'll have big landscape errors. So now I really need to decide which ones I want to keep and which ones I'd be willing to uninstall.

[Ferryt]

Understood, Herculine, and thanks. I won't have your problem, fortunately. I'm not really much into castles, although I do always run with Battlehorn Castle, mostly just to get the Dwemer Forge and the items in the "hidden quest". I've been thinking about Glenview Castle, but probably not for this character I'm playing right now. She's quite happy with a single home, and I've decided on the very nice and affordable Aleswell Cottage for that. That does add a building to an exterior cell, but I'd imagine it would be safe to merge with all the little mods since I'll never be adding a mod to the game that changes the area around it.

 

Nor do I use mods that dramatically alter the cityscapes, like Better Cities or anything that makes sweeping changes to large areas in the outdoor cells like Unique Landscapes. While those look wonderful, I'm just too leery of such mods conflicting with smaller mods that, to me, improve the game in less obtrusive ways and are must-haves. You can't please everyone all the time -- and I'm pretty hard to please anytime, where it comes to my game.

 

As for backups, yes, I do that. When I download a mod I don't transfer it to the game. I make a copy of it and transfer the copy to the game. The original archived version is in a special hierarchical directory with all the other mods I have installed, and the uninstalled mods are in a similar set of directories, waiting to be tested.

 

Now, all that said ... here's another angle, altogether. I know my way around the CS well enough. Let's say I've got a mod that adds a ring here, a sword there, changes an NPC to essential over in that other place, and gives me a spell on game-start. Would it be better to use a merging utility to just smush them altogether, or to re-create the same set of collective features in a single mod the hard way -- i.e. in the CS? Is there a functional difference? I really don't know what "merging" two mods actually does with them. If the two are equivalent then there's no reason to do it the hard way. If there's an advantage to using the CS to do it, then I'd probably do it that way.