Race

[myrmaad]

You're so funny.

 

Just so you know, "the elders of the tribe" did not sell their own members into slavery, it was competing tribes, and that's because they had a variety of slavery among their own tribes, but it was far different, unimaginably so, then the horrors of Chattel Slavery practiced in the southern colonies. Chattel Slavery was a very special kind of hell where you were dehumanized and not allowed to own anything including the fruits of your own labors.

 

That's why it's different from all the other examples.

 

Lastly maybe you don't know your great grandparents, but I love mine, and what they learned, what they did, what they suffered has a great impact on my circumstances and my granddaughter's circumstances as well. She knows her great-grandfather too. (And her great-great-grandmother is still alive, so the time is much shorter than you seem to realize.)

 

And don't get me started about the insidious ways that racism ubiquitously persists even into today. Have you never heard of Jim Crow? This is not in the past, this continues in present society. Some people "are more equal" than others.

[Aurielius]

And don't get me started about the insidious ways that racism ubiquitously persists even into today. Have you never heard of Jim Crow? This is not in the past, this continues in present society. Some people "are more equal" than others.

I'm going to take middle ground here, I do not agree that the former disadvantaged groups have caught up with main stream society and need no help, but that judgment of assistance should be on an individual basis not a broad race spectrum one. I am old enough to remember segregation in the deep south in the 50's and though it has not been erased from the minds of all , we have come an enormous distance since then. The institution of slavery went hand in hand with European economic exploitation of the Caribbean sugar capacity which in it's time was as valuable as oil is today, that it was transplanted to the mainland of the US was an unfortunate decision that we have been paying for off and on since it's inception. At some point however all groups that are on the lowest socio-economic portion of the ladder must pull themselves up by their own exertions, as all the others have done in the past. As for reparations for slavery, well.. 3/4 of my family died in Pa regiments in the Civil War so I feel that we have already given enough, so I am not receptive to the concept and consider the account paid in full.

Edited March 14, 2011 by Aurielius

[grannywils]

I cannot get into this discussion too much further as I am bound to get yet another thread shut down. However, I would like to make just a couple of brief comments here.

 

I appreciate and largly agree with what Aurielius has to say on the subject of racism. Being a few years older than he is I too lived through that period here in the United States, and while things are far from perfect, I must agree that we have made some improvements. Personally, I give a lot of credit to our younger generation for beginning to recognize one another has human beings first, and not worrying so much about "differences". More importantly, I appreciate your saying it, Aurielius, as I know you had family who died fighting for the North, and although our politics do not always agree I have always found you to be a person of character and integrity. I admired what you had to say. Thanks for saying it.

 

However, Myrmaad and Crimsonedge11 are treading into much deeper waters on this subject, and I do not want to leave you out there alone, Myrmaad, without letting you know that I am totally "getting" what you are trying to say.

 

Also, along with the other riches that were stolen from the slaves from Africa, let us not forget, in most cases their families and their very lives.

 

Once again, from my standpoint, this may not warrant "reparations". Nor does it warrant the insidious need to justify the behaviour or claim to misunderstand why we cannot just "let it go". Those who do not learn from their history are bound to repeat it. When I hear some of the statements being bandied about regarding all of the other cultures who engaged in slavery, etc. and how we weren't the only ones, that sounds like justification to me. It does not sound like someone who truly understands how wrong it was or how totally unacceptable a concept it is for one human being to own another one. Just like the Holocaust, we must never forget the inhumanity that man is capable of.

 

Ok, just discovered that I have been on my soapbox again. I'll jump down now.

 

Minor detail, Crimsonedge, Egypt is in Africa (mostly).

 

 

[crimsonedge11]

 

Once again, from my standpoint, this may not warrant "reparations". Nor does it warrant the insidious need to justify the behaviour or claim to misunderstand why we cannot just "let it go". Those who do not learn from their history are bound to repeat it. When I hear some of the statements being bandied about regarding all of the other cultures who engaged in slavery, etc. and how we weren't the only ones, that sounds like justification to me. It does not sound like someone who truly understands how wrong it was or how totally unacceptable a concept it is for one human being to own another one. Just like the Holocaust, we must never forget the inhumanity that man is capable of.

 

The point I am trying to make is if we are ever to heal race relations to a greater extent than they are now, people need to bury the hatchet, which includes one side blaming the other and demanding stuff from something that didn't even happen in their great grandfathers generation. And if we are to single one occurrence in history out that qualifies for reparations to be given, we could apply the same to every other case in history any injustice was done to any people. People need to quit making excuses and buck up and take responsibility instead of blaming it on something that happened over 100 years ago, things aren't like that any more.

 

Basically, what happened was wrong, and society has made a lot of progress in correcting that. Reparations would in fact be injustice, because how could anyone justify taking from one and giving to another based on race? Especially when the people involved never actually did anything or had anything taken away? If you really want to throw fuel on the fire with race relations, reparations would be the way to go. It would do way more harm than good.

 

Minor detail, Crimsonedge, Egypt is in Africa (mostly).

 

That is true, but Egypt conquered/pillaged/enslaved much of sub-saharan Africa for thousands of years. And nobody is asking Egypt for reparations.

 

 

And don't get me started about the insidious ways that racism ubiquitously persists even into today. Have you never heard of Jim Crow? This is not in the past, this continues in present society. Some people "are more equal" than others.

 

I have heard of Jim Crow, he was a slave owner who came up with the idea to make Blacks stay rivaled with each other, so they are too busy fighting each other to worry about rebelling against their slave masters. Now my question is, how can ALL of the problems be blamed on this one man? Jim Crow isn't here, and hasn't been for hundreds of years. This is exactly what I mean by making excuses, instead of owning up to responsibility. People need to drop this dumb **** and move on, instead of dwelling on the past. It is so ridiculous to keep blaming one man for the problems of an entire community, just because he had an idea on how to keep control of his slaves a few hundred years ago. Jim Crow? Bull****. This is about the most pathetic excuse I have heard, so this is why some inner city Blacks form gangs and kill each other in the streets? Its Jim Crow's fault. Give me a damn break.......

 

 

Someones worth should be judged on individual accomplishments and achievements, and not based on anything else BUT that. With that said, everyone isn't equal, and life isn't fair.

Edited March 15, 2011 by crimsonedge11

[myrmaad]

No one here is even talking about reparations, EXCEPT YOU.

 

 

Race is a human construct. On a cellular, physical level there is no difference. There is ethnicity but it is somewhat misunderstood when used purely in terms of race without regard to experience.

 

I have seen mixed race parents produce offspring that is dark and another that is so-called white.

 

I know so-called "white people" who have a black ancestor, and a large majority of so-called "black people" have white ancestors.

 

I conclude race is a political, social tool used to discriminate and subjugate, and otherwise has no use in a just society.

 

Since it has historically been very successfully used to denigrate a minority by a majority, there is a social imbalance that needs to be counterbalanced and we attempt to do that by celebrating those that were overlooked historically. That's why we celebrate black history month. That's also why we have an International Women's Day.

 

Remember that historically, history books, religious tomes, and other propaganda were all written by those in power. That would leave out the women, the children, and any minority.

http://www.understandingrace.org/home.html

 

No one here has advocated reparations, as if that could solve anything. But we should man up and acknowledge who were the winners and losers and what that means and stop pretending like we all made it on our own with no help, and definitely stop living in denial as if it makes no difference. That is unacceptable. and insulting.

Now get off of it.

/facepalm

[Nintii]

RACE differentiation is an absolute neccessity in combatting the Big Brother One Mind, One People, One Order authoritarian dictatorship.

We are all different from a cultural perspective and our identities as individuals are preserved in celebrating our diversities.

 

Communism - a failed system - Marxism - another failure - and many of the leftwing socialists - though not all but most - embrace unitarian philosophies where the differences between peoples are blurred for the sole purpose of creating a "oneness".

All of these people had a cookie-cutter mentality "we are all the same", this kind of reminds me of Star Trek and the Borg .... all were control freaks.

 

People power, another term for domination and dictatorship - check history for any nation called the "Peoples blah blah blah" and you will find that conformity to the "Party" or "State" is and was always enforced

and had a history of brutality and jack-boot control.

Political correctness is always a form of people control and an erradication of individuality or self expression.

 

This however, is as far as I am prepared to go when it comes to lauding my "differentness" or my "race".

 

Let's take Morgan Freeman as an example, he isn't interested in "Black History Month" and I agree with him wholeheartedly ... I personally believe that if you are an American - I'm not - then you are an American, now I don't

care what color you are, you're still an American - no matter your background.

 

Initially this might sound like I'm contradicting myself, because I at first am applauding individuality and now I'm talking of unity ... to clarify this, I still support individuality yet, I'm supporting UNITY as far as all the peoples within the context of a single nation\counrty are concerned and their "sameness" or cultural similarity.

However, where language and cultural differences are very different, then care needs to be taken to not swamp or drown or overpower or "assimilte" those who are different.

 

Getting back to Morgan Freeman and Black Americans in general, their "cultural differences" with White Americans is absolutely minimal, they are essentially the same person, just with different skin color and that's it.

Yet Black Americans DO DESERVE a mention in AMERICAN HISTORYas a segment of the population that was once discriminated against and every such instance of said discrimination is now removed and equality within the

peoples of America is a thing of the past.

 

So, what of a "Black History Month" or a "Hispanic Music Awards", what of such entities, where race is mentioned, where do you place them ?

First let me ask you, would it be ok if Whites (in America) had a "White Grammy Awards" or a "White Oscar's" ... would people mess their pants because you're mentioning the term "White" because it somehow seems

synonymous with racist ?

 

If that bothers you, then go check your own personal "racist barometer" because it would be in the red.

Rather, when faced with such entities, you should point out that such institutions already exist where EVERYONE IRRESPECTIVE OF RACE has a free and fair opportunity to compete.

However, allow them to exist as long as they don't get bent out of shape when you have your own RACE brand show or whatever ... fair is fair, right ?

 

I have much to say on this subject but let me give it a rest for now ....

Edited March 15, 2011 by Nintii

[grannywils]

I keep saying I'm going to get away from this thread, and then I come back to it.

 

Nintii, another friend of mine, you make some very valid points. But your first sentence begins with the phrase, "Race differentiation". I agree in a sense with that concept and with the rest of that paragraph. I think of it more in terms of "cultural differentiation, but can understand when sometimes the main difference is simply race. However, what we have been discussing primarily is "Race discrimination", which is something else entirely.

 

I have always believed that we should celebrate our differences in such a way as to be able to share them with one another. Not to enforce them upon one another as you have described in the "Peoples state" type systems. I understand where you are coming from with that one. But if we are to learn to accept one another as human beings first, we need to stop looking at race or religion or ethnicity, etc. first, but look at our humanity first, and discover that which there is about each of us which we have in common. Then we can stop worrying so much about who did what to whom and when, and who owes what to whom for what was done and when. There is a lot of blame still being cast for wrongs committed a long time ago. However, there are still a lot of wrongs being committed today out of simple fear and ignorance, thus exacerbating the problem of racisim and prejudice.

 

I happen to agree with Morgan Freeman on his stance regarding the Black History month situation. I believe that in the long run it might do more harm than good in terms of continuing to separate the races. It will keep black Americans and White Americans looking like two different nations. However, I also remember when black people were never mentioned in my history books. I understand why some folks felt the need to request this "special attention". No, I do not believe we should have Black Oscars or White Oscars or Hispanic Music Awards or White Music Awards. However, once again, I remember when those segments of the community were not represented in those awards programs. Their contributions to the arts were pretty much ignored. Yes we have made great strides, and yes a lot of that is behind us. But it would not be if lots of people had not made lots of noise and made lots of enemies in the process in order to achieve that change. It took close to 200 years in this country to get to where we are now, which is only a beginning. So I am prepared to be a little tolerant of those who request this sort of "special" treatment or acknowledgement as a result of being ignored for the first 200 years. I only look forward to the day when no one feels the need for it. I do not feel the need for it today, but am willing to accept the fact that others do.

 

I, too, have so much more that I could say on this subject; but will try to end it here...

 

 

[Sync182]

One of the most interesting things I find about racism is this:

 

In a good number of cases, the calls of "that was racist!" come not from those who were supposedly vilified, but from those Left Wing Cultural Elite Do-Good Activists who think that they know better than everyone who was ever born.

 

Am I denying that racism exists? Not at all.

 

But it seems to me that the amount of racism that actually exists is quite possibly less than we are forced to believe.

[marharth]

One of the most interesting things I find about racism is this:

 

In a good number of cases, the calls of "that was racist!" come not from those who were supposedly vilified, but from those Left Wing Cultural Elite Do-Good Activists who think that they know better than everyone who was ever born.

Can you explain that in more detail?

 

 

 

I made this topic to try to discuss the issues of racism now days, and general discrimination. Of course it makes sense to go back into history to make points but can everyone try to stay on topic of "Issues with racism now?"

[Sync182]

One of the most interesting things I find about racism is this:

 

In a good number of cases, the calls of "that was racist!" come not from those who were supposedly vilified, but from those Left Wing Cultural Elite Do-Good Activists who think that they know better than everyone who was ever born.

Can you explain that in more detail?

 

 

 

I made this topic to try to discuss the issues of racism now days, and general discrimination. Of course it makes sense to go back into history to make points but can everyone try to stay on topic of "Issues with racism now?"

 

Certainly.

 

Here in Australia, the previous state government - LABOR government, I might add, now thankfully booted from office - introduced, in one of its radical social engineering programs, the Racial Vilification laws. These laws put the burden of proof onto the accused to prove that they did NOT do as alleged, rather than make the accuser prove that the crime was committed. Guilty until proven innocent. Fortunately, no-one is stupid enough to push these laws to their advantage, because they know that a very large and uncomforatble spotlight (ie the public eye) would be shone on them if they did.

 

Here in Australia we are constantly inundated with bleeding hearts and vocal minority groups who scream discrimination. Most of the times its the bleeding hearts who claim to be acting on behalf of these minority groups, and in a lot of cases the minority group aren't the ones screaming.

 

In 2007 our newly-elected Prime Minister felt the need to apologise to the indigenous people for crime committed against them - crimes done 150 years ago by British settlers, not crimes committed two years earlier by white Australians. I didn't do anything wrong, and I wasn't even born when these crimes were committed, so why was I lumped in with the apology? But it was a "popular" choice, to appease the bleeding hearts who think that being white is a sin.

 

People like these - such as the Civil Liberites group, who push for the rights of the minorities at the expense of the rights of the majority who just want to be left to go about their business - spend a lot of their time looking for things they can scream about. An issue might be totally innocuous, and is possibly resolved amicably, but we then have these do-gooders who interfere and re-open the barn door and make the horses stampede.

 

So, yes, racism exists today. But in a number of cases it's not the mixed races complaining about it.

Edited March 18, 2011 by Sync182