REAL RECOIL!!!!

[SonOfCapiz]

i tried using a gun once. that was when i stopped being satisfied with gun skill affecting damage and not accuracy. i had always thought the Guns (or energy weapons) skill should not affect gun damage but accepted the vanilla system as a necessary compromise for gameplay purposes. But that one time i used a friend's gun, i saw just how much an unskilled shooter (i.e. me) would have a hard time hitting a target compared to a skilled one (i.e my friend).

 

now it seemed to me that i was aiming right at the target (ironsights lined up and all) but the bullets just wouldnt hit the target as often as i thought they would. i even began to think there was something wrong with the gun till my friend (by now very much enjoying himself) showed me that the fault wasnt with the gun. so the vanilla system of bullet spread is a fair approximation of that imho. you shouldnt be able to hit what you're aiming at unless you're already skilled with a gun.

 

a problem arises when ironsights (in game) are used. as schlangster explained on the Beth forums, the game formula for accuracy suddenly makes it like you had perfect aim (i hope i didnt misrepresent that) when using ironsights. the only solution i (or more accurately, learned from Xodarap) found for that is to add a perk to the player that adds wobble according to skill.

 

as for recoil and gun rise, for gameplay purposes and not realism, i find them more appropriate for gun strength requirements rather than skill reqs.

Edited February 26, 2011 by SonOfCapiz

[Corejob]

Firearms obey the laws of physics. Any gun you can hold won't knock the target back - let alone send them flying. That's pure Hollywood BS.

[Justin11111]

i can agree with both of son of capiz's statements with the exception that for realism i would increase gun rise with automatic weapons and rapid fire semi auto weapons.

[shinto9]

have any of you ever actually shot a gun?

1. the "Hero" always freehands his shots. that means that the gun is going to "wobble" in a circle because the human body is not a machine that can hold the gun without tiring and will over compensate when the gun begins to go off course.

 

2.semi auto weapons will experience muzzle climb the same as fully auto weapons when fired fast enough. but it is not noticeable when firing at a pace where a target at 200 yards can be hit with any regularity.

 

3. have you ever looked through a scope? any movement of the gun seems to be maginfied when focusing through a scope, and there would be a lot of movement freehanding those heavy ___ scoped rifles.

 

4. the only calibers that would cause a noticeable movement from the impact alone would be from slug and buck shot fired from a shotgun or the extremely large sized rifle rounds like any of the various 50 cals. any other movement seen by a lighter round would be the human body reacting to being shot.

 

I own four firearms and have years of practical experience with most categories of firearm, dont talk theory with me.

p.s. i dont mean to hurt anybodys feelings, guns are just.... my thing. :nuke:

 

yes I agree completely, I own an ar-15 myself. having an interest in guns in real life really makes me yearn for a more realistic feel in game.

[webster63]

have any of you ever actually shot a gun?

1. the "Hero" always freehands his shots. that means that the gun is going to "wobble" in a circle because the human body is not a machine that can hold the gun without tiring and will over compensate when the gun begins to go off course.

 

2.semi auto weapons will experience muzzle climb the same as fully auto weapons when fired fast enough. but it is not noticeable when firing at a pace where a target at 200 yards can be hit with any regularity.

 

3. have you ever looked through a scope? any movement of the gun seems to be maginfied when focusing through a scope, and there would be a lot of movement freehanding those heavy ___ scoped rifles.

 

4. the only calibers that would cause a noticeable movement from the impact alone would be from slug and buck shot fired from a shotgun or the extremely large sized rifle rounds like any of the various 50 cals. any other movement seen by a lighter round would be the human body reacting to being shot.

 

I own four firearms and have years of practical experience with most categories of firearm, dont talk theory with me.

p.s. i dont mean to hurt anybodys feelings, guns are just.... my thing. :nuke:

 

nobody is asking to see people rolling back when shot but hesitation of some sort is in order and the human body reacting to being shot is IMO what is being asked for (at least by me)

[shinto9]

have any of you ever actually shot a gun?

1. the "Hero" always freehands his shots. that means that the gun is going to "wobble" in a circle because the human body is not a machine that can hold the gun without tiring and will over compensate when the gun begins to go off course.

 

2.semi auto weapons will experience muzzle climb the same as fully auto weapons when fired fast enough. but it is not noticeable when firing at a pace where a target at 200 yards can be hit with any regularity.

 

3. have you ever looked through a scope? any movement of the gun seems to be maginfied when focusing through a scope, and there would be a lot of movement freehanding those heavy ___ scoped rifles.

 

4. the only calibers that would cause a noticeable movement from the impact alone would be from slug and buck shot fired from a shotgun or the extremely large sized rifle rounds like any of the various 50 cals. any other movement seen by a lighter round would be the human body reacting to being shot.

 

I own four firearms and have years of practical experience with most categories of firearm, dont talk theory with me.

p.s. i dont mean to hurt anybodys feelings, guns are just.... my thing. :nuke:

 

nobody is asking to see people rolling back when shot but hesitation of some sort is in order and the human body reacting to being shot is IMO what is being asked for (at least by me)

what he is saying is that the stumble isn't very realistic. in a fire fight (speaking of most common calibers) you often won't know that you have been hit until a little while after, there are even accounts of men being shot in the heart and still continuing to fight for up to 5 minutes. at least that is what I have learned in my law enforcement class.

Edited February 27, 2011 by shinto9

[webster63]

what he is saying is that the stumble isn't very realistic. in a fire fight (speaking of most common calibers) you often won't know that you have been hit until a little while after, there are even accounts of men being shot in the heart and still continuing to fight for up to 5 minutes. at least that is what I have learned in my law enforcement class.

 

well this is a perfect example of reality being warped by perception

 

most people who dont see people get shot in RL have the perception (mostly exagerated by TV and movies) that you should at least get some MILD reaction to the impact of a bullet

 

i understand certain types of ammo go in cleanly with little to no visual impact but some dont so yes you can not know your shot already but with some calibers you should

 

IMO for gaming it should follow the TV look more then the RL fact that sometimes you dont react to being shot (depending on the calibers and if you are on drugs)

 

games are mostly visual and when the people you shoot are not slowed even slightly a little by being shot it just doesnt look right even if it is realistic for RL so IMO in the game world, as your enemies health is reduced so should their speed and strength but that doesnt happen in this game, they retain full speed and strength right up until they drop dead

[shinto9]

what he is saying is that the stumble isn't very realistic. in a fire fight (speaking of most common calibers) you often won't know that you have been hit until a little while after, there are even accounts of men being shot in the heart and still continuing to fight for up to 5 minutes. at least that is what I have learned in my law enforcement class.

 

well this is a perfect example of reality being warped by perception

 

most people who dont see people get shot in RL have the perception (mostly exagerated by TV and movies) that you should at least get some MILD reaction to the impact of a bullet

 

i understand certain types of ammo go in cleanly with little to no visual impact but some dont so yes you can not know your shot already but with some calibers you should

 

IMO for gaming it should follow the TV look more then the RL fact that sometimes you dont react to being shot (depending on the calibers and if you are on drugs)

 

games are mostly visual and when the people you shoot are not slowed even slightly a little by being shot it just doesnt look right even if it is realistic for RL so IMO in the game world, as your enemies health is reduced so should their speed and strength but that doesnt happen in this game, they retain full speed and strength right up until they drop dead

well if it was like that then the game would be even easier than it already is. enemies getting slower and less effective as there health lowers would be to easy. crippling there limbs already weakens them significantly. the system your describing would only work if it affects you too, although it wouldn't work very well because you are often outnumbered and being slowed significantly would make it nearly impossible to survive a firefight after taking a couple of shots, without a decent cover system (which this game doesn't have) I couldn't see this working.

[webster63]

well if it was like that then the game would be even easier than it already is. enemies getting slower and less effective as there health lowers would be to easy. crippling there limbs already weakens them significantly. the system your describing would only work if it affects you too, although it wouldn't work very well because you are often outnumbered and being slowed significantly would make it nearly impossible to survive a firefight after taking a couple of shots, without a decent cover system (which this game doesn't have) I couldn't see this working.

 

 

well of course it would apply to the PC too and yes it would greatly increase dificulty making getting and keeping alive companions critical to how far you get in the game as well as not waltsing around blasting away but realistic scanning of terain to determine safe travel paths and planned engagements

 

it would be a perfect way to bring the game into balance as a true game of strategy and survivability as it should be

[shinto9]

well if it was like that then the game would be even easier than it already is. enemies getting slower and less effective as there health lowers would be to easy. crippling there limbs already weakens them significantly. the system your describing would only work if it affects you too, although it wouldn't work very well because you are often outnumbered and being slowed significantly would make it nearly impossible to survive a firefight after taking a couple of shots, without a decent cover system (which this game doesn't have) I couldn't see this working.

 

 

well of course it would apply to the PC too and yes it would greatly increase dificulty making getting and keeping alive companions critical to how far you get in the game as well as not waltsing around blasting away but realistic scanning of terain to determine safe travel paths and planned engagements

 

it would be a perfect way to bring the game into balance as a true game of strategy and survivability as it should be

I still can't see a way for this to work without a cover system. in this game getting hit is a given and there is no avoiding it. the only strategies that could be employed is find a way to kill them all at once or don't engage at all. it wouldn't make it challenging, just frustrating. I personally have my game set up to were I will die within 3-5 hits from most guns, so the game will be more challenging. with your system if I were to get hit once then I would slow significantly, and with a couple shots till I die then there is little to no chance of survival in a heated firefight. at least in my case it would not add entertainment, it would just be frustrating.