shouting

[CrayolaColours]

They could have. But they didn't. So what? I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say they resemble. The Drow? You're giving really vague categories here, Tel-quessir are D&D elves in general, correct? And why are you hiding behind terms that not everyone would get, anyway? It's sneaky, I'll give you that. No one understands you, so you automatically "win".

 

Nords, I always believed they were the game equivalent to Nordic vikings. The name is a pretty good indicator.

Yes, Tamriel is heavily influenced by D&D, but they add quite a bit to it, and make it their own. D&D can be seen as the center of the Fantasy genre. If you must get technical, D&D was a rip off of Lord of the Rings. Maybe they did take a lot from the Drow(even though it's a lot more loosely based than you make it sound, you make it seem like they stole letter by letter), but lets face it, the Drow are pretty awesome, who wouldn't want that in their game? If they hadn't made that character, it would've likely been the first character mod done in Morrowind anyway. The Drow's attitude is nothing like Dark Elves. They were both cursed by a god, yes, and they have dark skin, but they aren't exactly matriarchal, and the women definitely don't act cruel and superior to the men. None have entire underground cities from what I know, either.

Wood Elves of Valenwood were made pretty unique, too.

[Fatalmasterpiece]

They could have. But they didn't. So what? I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say they resemble. The Drow? You're giving really vague categories here, Tel-quessir are D&D elves in general, correct? And why are you hiding behind terms that not everyone would get, anyway? It's sneaky, I'll give you that. No one understands you, so you automatically "win".

 

I specificly used the word "Ilythiri". Sorry your not familiar with it. Tel-quessir are not DnD elves, they are Faerûnian elves. If you don't know the difference then this discussion really isn't worth having. :thumbsup:

 

Wood elves unique? Kinda like umm... Wood elves from Forgotten Realms, or maybe Dungeons and Dragons, or Silvan elves from Mirkwood and Lothlórien... the list goes on and on and on and on and on...

[kibblesticks]

@Kibble It's one thing to borrow concepts and plot devices, it's another to take a race and almost completely copy them, such is the case with Dunmer, and don't even get me started on Nords. They could have made the Dunmer have green eyes and their houses made from giant skeletons of long dead behemoths, and instead of being dominated by feuding empire families (like Ilythiiri) they could have figured something else out...

 

But hey, your happy with it, that's cool, your entitled to your opinion, as am I and I'm free to express it, no "inadvertent trolling" required. :thumbsup:

 

Houses from behemoth bones... it's been done

 

And civilisations being dominated by feuding tribes/warlords/families/whatever isn't exactly uncommon. In fact it is a state that almost every single civilisation since the dawn of man has experienced at one point or another.

 

Whoever the Ilythiiri are, I'm sure their creators weren't the first to use these concepts in their stories and they won't be the last. It's how you deliver the material that makes it special, not the core idea.

Edited March 8, 2011 by kibblesticks

[Fatalmasterpiece]

Yay phones, double post.

[Fatalmasterpiece]

Everything has been done before. It is how you combine ideas and present them that matters.

 

Take for instance Cameron's Avatar. The setting and visual experience is pretty original (though based on existing principles) and is striking in it's presentation. It is stunning. However, as most found, the plot is just generic, a rehash of Dances with Wolves and Pokahontas. Many felt the story let them down by failing to break new ground as the film did visually.

 

Here in TES we have the opposite. The story lines and plots, though based on established patterns, are relatively fresh and provoking. Although each game has started to travel a similar path, each seems to do so in an interesting and stimulating way. On top of that the gameplay and implementation are ground breaking and push the envelope for what is possible in an RPG. However the setting, characters and races are all too familiar, and like Avatar's plot, leave one thinking, with all this innovation couldn't they have thought of something fresh?

 

I would simply like to see the writers and concept creators of Bethesda dare to push the limit like their counterparts do in their open game creation instead of re frequenting all too familiar platitudes and fantasy norm.

[TheCalliton]

Lets face it

most of the fantasy genre is a lot alike. AT FIRST GLANCE!!!!!!!!

when you sit down and pick it apart, things become really different.

DnD may be one of the biggest, but not everything else is a rip off!

When you play a fantasy game, you EXPECT orcs and goblins. You EXPECT fireballs. But TES switches it up. in most, MOST, fantasy games, orcs are evil. (im not gonna mention WoW except for this since wow is a load of BS) We have argonians and Kahjit. Haven't seen them anywhere else. We have a unique mythology. Sure we have the generic elves, and humans. But we break up humans in a little different way. The polytheism isnt too new of an idea, but we put a twist on it with daedra (by we, i mean all TES fans/modders) The TES games are unique. Do you see Sheogorath in other games? I think not! Do you see lizard people? sure, but not like TES. The reason TES is so damn popular is because it is unique. DnD is older, and the whole of it isnt seen as unique anymore BECAUSE it is the standard by wich other games are based. So sit down and open up a DnD monster manual and see how different they are. DnD has planes, like oblivion, but they do it differently! im gonna stop before i go overboard and get a strike/ban

[Fatalmasterpiece]

Of course a lot of things are different. You will notice I mostly pointed out Dunmer with some mention of the other Elves. Sheogorath wasn't even brough up, but I will talk about him later. Mostly I was trying to point out that a race of dark elves, with red eyes, that live in fungus houses, dominated by royal houses is well, pretty damned similar. IF they were subterranean and matriarchal well... you can the point.

 

I've stated before, you can probably find my post somewhere if you really want, that I love what they have done with Argonian and Khajit. I think these races really shine as being different than other fantasy games. Sorry I ruffled everyone feathers but people need to accept that others on the interwebz may have opinions which differ from their own without just being told their wrong or told they are trolling. Any how my point is that I wish they would do this with other races.

 

TES is essentially a conglomeration of other writer's lore. This is borrowed from that, a bit here a bit there. Where the series really seems to shine is when they go off on their own and create something original like the Shivering Isles and the Daedra. When they just copy something else it leaves this feeling of inauthenticity because it's neither Elder Scrolls nor some other lore's completely, but is stuck in a grey area. The things I find myself enjoying most are when these fixtures of existing fantasy lore fade away and I find myself in something new, like Sheogorath's realm or going into a cult's lair for a Daedra shrine. When I'm just following some "I'm an Orc, I like to bash stuff because that's how all Orcs are" kind of quest, or "I'm a Nord so I'm a Viking, but I don't have any of the Norse depth or authenticity, instead I'm just generic", kinda quest, it's dull. If I want Orcs I will go to the man who did them best, J.R.R. Tolkien, and if I want Vikings I will go to who did them the best, Snorri Sturluson and the like. If I want something TES, well I have to sort through all these things to get to where the game show's it's best colors and I am hoping they can do so more in the future with more original character, story and plot design.

[TheCalliton]

DnD has dark elves too. Not just drow

[DisintergrateHorseArmor]

TES is essentially a conglomeration of other writer's lore. This is borrowed from that, a bit here a bit there. Where the series really seems to shine is when they go off on their own and create something original like the Shivering Isles and the Daedra. When they just copy something else it leaves this feeling of inauthenticity because it's neither Elder Scrolls nor some other lore's completely, but is stuck in a grey area. The things I find myself enjoying most are when these fixtures of existing fantasy lore fade away and I find myself in something new, like Sheogorath's realm or going into a cult's lair for a Daedra shrine.

 

I assume your just speaking about oblivion here. In which case I'll agree, and so does bethesda. Todd Howard (in a podcast, or the GI rewind on TES) mentions how generic the fantasy aspects of oblivion were. He goes onto say that was a reason why they were excited about doing shivering Isles. He also says that they took this thinking into Skyrim. So hopefully we will see more unique encounters and what not.

 

Morrowind on the other hand I felt to be almost completly fresh compared to other fantasy settings at the time, even to this day. I'll even go so far as to say visually, the landscape and over all feeling from Shivering Isles was really just a rehash of parts from Morrowind. So I think it may be a little forward of you to lump all TES games together, when each game (mostly Morrowind/Oblivion) are night and day.

[kibblesticks]

 

I've stated before, you can probably find my post somewhere if you really want, that I love what they have done with Argonian and Khajit. I think these races really shine as being different than other fantasy games. Sorry I ruffled everyone feathers but people need to accept that others on the interwebz may have opinions which differ from their own without just being told their wrong or told they are trolling. Any how my point is that I wish they would do this with other races.

 

 

In your earlier posts it certainly seemed like you simply had beef with Bethesda for using ideas that had been used before. However, I can see that you have a valid reason for saying what you said now and I apologise for suggesting you were trolling.